House Healthcare Tax On Rich Equals Bad Consequences On House Democrats

[JimofPennsylvan]

House Democrats are all wrong with their half trillion dollar tax on the rich to pay for healthcare reform legislation. Their plan to have a one, two and three percent surcharge on the income of wealthy Americans depending on those Americans’ income level which in later years will rise to a two, three and five percent surcharge tax is completely wrong. It is unfair to wealthy Americans because with the repeal of the Bush tax cuts on these Americans they will be paying maximum tax rates from a fairness standpoint. What the country is seeing here is the Democrats taking the short-term politically easy way out here, they know the rich in America only number a minority number of voters so come election time they won’t lose that many votes with this move. The House Democrats are foolish here because Rich Americans can afford to make political contributions and they can decide to abandon the liberals behind this move and support moderate and conservative candidates and give Democrat liberals a real wooping in future elections. Moreover, most new job creation in America comes from small businesses, and this healthcare surcharge tax on the wealthy will fall on small business, in part, so Democrats with their tax move here will be undermining job creation which is a mega-dumb idea with the unemployment rate projected to top ten percent by years end.

The perplexing thing about the House Democrats move here is that advocates for Healthcare Reform have put forth fair tax related increase ideas for wealthy Americans. The initiative to limit health care insurance premium exclusions from taxable income for the wealthy to amounts that ordinary Americans that have high deductable health insurance plans receive is fair because as it turns out now these wealthy Americans are receiving a tax benefit greater than these ordinary Americans with high deductable insurance are receiving and there is no justification for it in light of the fact that the government needs to raise money to pay for critically needed health care reform. Secondly, in light of the crisis America is presently in with its health care system at the brink of large numbers of employers dumping employer sponsored health care insurance and catastrophic numbers of Americans not having health care insurance resulting, Congress needs to look at its itemized deductions regulations on the wealthy to see if there is a fair way to raise money to help pay for this health care insurance crisis. It is completely fair (and this fairness does not lose its compelling nature by all the hype and exaggeration related to charities and high-priced home sales) to tweak the itemized deduction tax benefit for the top tax brackets to equate it to a slightly lower tax bracket like what has been proposed in Congress because these wealthy Americans would still be getting a tax benefit equal to what middle class Americans get.

If Congress and the President get desperate on how to pay for this desperately needed health care reform legislation turn to what the U.S. government has turned to in the past, specifically a tax on luxury goods. Enact a luxury tax of like three to four percent on cars over $60,000.00, boats, airplanes, high-priced jewelry, etc.. It is fair for Congress to take this path because these are luxury items, they are not necessities if a person doesn’t want to pay the tax they don’t buy the luxury item. If the person wants to buy a luxury item they can help the country pay for a critical need for the American people, health care insurance. Plus it is only a three to four percent tax, for consumers spending the amount of money involved in purchasing luxury goods, three to four percent will not be a big deal; as a practical matter this tax won’t be the cause of a lot of lost sales for luxury product sellers.

 

[Old Rocks]

The wealthy Americans gave us this economic debacle. 1/10 of 1% of them make as much money as the bottom 40% of the rest of us. Yes, it is fair for them to pay much more.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The wealthy Americans gave us this economic debacle. 1/10 of 1% of them make as much money as the bottom 40% of the rest of us. Yes, it is fair for them to pay much more.

The bottom 40% pay no taxes and have no right to complain that others do not pay enough.

 

[asaratis]

Wealth envy is prevalent amongst the "poor". Over-taxing the rich and those in between that provide jobs does nothing good for the "poor".

 

[Old Rocks]

The wealthy Americans gave us this economic debacle. 1/10 of 1% of them make as much money as the bottom 40% of the rest of us. Yes, it is fair for them to pay much more.

The bottom 40% pay no taxes and have no right to complain that others do not pay enough.

Really? Social Security and Medicare are taken out of all earnings.

 

[Old Rocks]

Wealth envy is prevalent amongst the "poor". Over-taxing the rich and those in between that provide jobs does nothing good for the "poor".

Really? Where the hell are those jobs today? The rich are still rich, and the rest of us are looking at some hard times. Bankruptcies are way up, expecially for those with medical problems. In England, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, France, ect., familys by the hundreds of thousands are not losing all they own because they happened to get sick. Or get layed off because a bunch of the people that have all the money did some really stupid things.

And why do we have "working poor" in any case? If a job is neccessary it should pay enough that someone can live a reasonable life on the pay.

 

[wimpy77]

i watched the sunday both sides basically said more than likely no health care bill this year.

 

[Metternich]

The wealthy Americans gave us this economic debacle. 1/10 of 1% of them make as much money as the bottom 40% of the rest of us. Yes, it is fair for them to pay much more.

And they pay more taxes then the bottom, depending on estimates, 40%-50% of Americans. So yes, I would say they are paying their fair share.

 

[Soaring]

Wealth envy is prevalent amongst the "poor". Over-taxing the rich and those in between that provide jobs does nothing good for the "poor".

Really? Where the hell are those jobs today? The rich are still rich, and the rest of us are looking at some hard times. Bankruptcies are way up, expecially for those with medical problems. In England, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, France, ect., familys by the hundreds of thousands are not losing all they own because they happened to get sick. Or get layed off because a bunch of the people that have all the money did some really stupid things.

And why do we have "working poor" in any case? If a job is neccessary it should pay enough that someone can live a reasonable life on the pay.

It is socialist idiots like you who make it difficult to maintain a capitalist society that the American dream was built on. Who in hell are you to demand someone else pay for your life, your health insurance, your food, your housing, your transportation, etc? Make your own living lazy ass.

 

[editec]

We're never going to find enough money to continue paying the HC establishment at rates of inflation double or triple the inflation rates on everything else, folks.

We cannot find the solution to the HC crises by taxing the rich, or taxing the smokers, or taxing freakin' Fritos, either.

The problems we are facing are based on fundamentals which we have very little control over...an aging population and modern medicine's ability to keep people alive just on more day but at very VERY high costs.

The market solution to this is to let people die who cannot afford HC. Nobody acknowledges that that's what's happening, but that IS what's happening, right now, anyway.

The semi-socialist solution to this is ALSO to let people die who cannot afford HC, too, only the HC planners don't fully understand that yet, or at least they're not willing to admit it.

We should be increasing our investment in creating healthier lifestyles and preventative medicine for the people, and stop spending heroic amounts of money keeping those who are dying anyway alive just because we can (as long as we spend 50% of every HC dollar spend on those last years of life, I mean).

Speaking as someone who WILL BE facing that last year of life sooner than most Americans, I know that my suggestion doesn't serve me very well, but society cannot pretend that death is merely one medical OPTION, anymore.

I know we all want the best possible medicine that exists, but honestly folks, society cannot afford to provide that to everyone.

Wishing we could do that won't make it so.

The root cause of the problem is that there is practically NO LIMIT to the demand for more, (and more expensive) HC.

 

[ba1614]

Just stop the wasteful spending, and "pet projects", at all levels of government, and nobody would need to pay more taxes.

 

[Annie]

We're never going to find enough money to continue paying the HC establishment at rates of inflation double or triple the inflation rates on everything else, folks.

We cannot find the solution to the HC crises by taxing the rich, or taxing the smokers, or taxing freakin' Fritos, either.

The problems we are facing are based on fundamentals which we have very little control over...an aging population and modern medicine's ability to keep people alive just on more day but at very VERY high costs.

The market solution to this is to let people die who cannot afford HC. Nobody acknowledges that that's what's happening, but that IS what's happening, right now, anyway.

The semi-socialist solution to this is ALSO to let people die who cannot afford HC, too, only the HC planners don't fully understand that yet, or at least they're not willing to admit it.

We should be increasing our investment in creating healthier lifestyles and preventative medicine for the people, and stop spending heroic amounts of money keeping those who are dying anyway alive just because we can (as long as we spend 50% of every HC dollar spend on those last years of life, I mean).

Speaking as someone who WILL BE facing that last year of life sooner than most Americans, I know that my suggestion doesn't serve me very well, but society cannot pretend that death is merely one medical OPTION, anymore.

I know we all want the best possible medicine that exists, but honestly folks, society cannot afford to provide that to everyone.

Wishing we could do that won't make it so.

The root cause of the problem is that there is practically NO LIMIT to the demand for more, (and more expensive) HC.

I agree. It's time for everyone, including the government to understand it. However, there are things that can be done:

1. As you stated, preventative care and healthier lifestyles go a long way to keeping most in good health. When it comes to 'check ups' and regular care-make it 'off insurance.' Docs will have lower costs, not having to have so many people to fill out insurance forms and fighting to have the tests they want or don't ordered/approved. They will also have more time to treat and talk with patients, perhaps picking up signs of some developing problem and heading it off.

2. Drop the dental and eye care coverages. Again paperwork, more importantly it's allowed costs to skyrocket beyond what would have normally occurred.

3. Have what used to be called 'hospitalization insurance', allowing this coverage for all, regardiless of pre-existing conditions. One way or another the sickest are going to get treatment, by having insurance there would be less time wasted waiting for approval, again with the possibility that the earlier the treatment, lower the costs.

4. For those that can't afford the major medical, keep Medicaid or have the state pay for/ subsidize the insurance.

5. Allow newly licensed doctors the opportunity to 'pay off' their school debt by working in clinics in inner cities or rural areas where there are shortages of doctors. Not only would this open up medicine as a career for those that can't afford it, some may well begin their practices in areas that are currently under served.

 

[editec]

I personally think the best possible solution to the health care crises is for the USA to decide to increase the SUPPLY of HC providers.

In comparison to the rest of Americans, the HC providers are making far too much money.

There's other things we might do, of course, that would mitigate the problem but not entirely solve it

For example, if Single payer HC (assuming it is given the legal right to actually bargain with HC providers, durg companies etc.) could certainly help the situation.

But in the long run the problem is insoluable, I suspect, because of human nature and the nature of advancing HC costs.

Too many of us want our insurance companies or our government to pay enormous amounts of money to keep mommy alive for another day.

And as long as that cost is not coming out of our own pockets that's not going to change.

 

[MaggieMae]

Wealth envy is prevalent amongst the "poor". Over-taxing the rich and those in between that provide jobs does nothing good for the "poor".

But giving them a tax windfall to invest in foreign ventures did a whole lot for the "poor" eh? Where's the jobs that were supposed to have been created? Whatever happened to trickle-down? Gone the way of piss-on, that's where.

 

[MaggieMae]

Just stop the wasteful spending, and "pet projects", at all levels of government, and nobody would need to pay more taxes.

First, end the tax loopholes. Everybody bitches about "welfare" and the "slackers" who don't pay any taxes anyway, but nobody bitches about the corporate welfare (loopholes and subsidies), nobody bitches about the writeoffs made available to the wealthy (where the taxpayer in effect subsidizes their starter castle mortgages, etc.)

It's called WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION of a different shade. Surprise surprise.

 

[MaggieMae]

We're never going to find enough money to continue paying the HC establishment at rates of inflation double or triple the inflation rates on everything else, folks.

We cannot find the solution to the HC crises by taxing the rich, or taxing the smokers, or taxing freakin' Fritos, either.

The problems we are facing are based on fundamentals which we have very little control over...an aging population and modern medicine's ability to keep people alive just on more day but at very VERY high costs.

The market solution to this is to let people die who cannot afford HC. Nobody acknowledges that that's what's happening, but that IS what's happening, right now, anyway.

The semi-socialist solution to this is ALSO to let people die who cannot afford HC, too, only the HC planners don't fully understand that yet, or at least they're not willing to admit it.

We should be increasing our investment in creating healthier lifestyles and preventative medicine for the people, and stop spending heroic amounts of money keeping those who are dying anyway alive just because we can (as long as we spend 50% of every HC dollar spend on those last years of life, I mean).

Speaking as someone who WILL BE facing that last year of life sooner than most Americans, I know that my suggestion doesn't serve me very well, but society cannot pretend that death is merely one medical OPTION, anymore.

I know we all want the best possible medicine that exists, but honestly folks, society cannot afford to provide that to everyone.

Wishing we could do that won't make it so.

The root cause of the problem is that there is practically NO LIMIT to the demand for more, (and more expensive) HC.

I agree. It's time for everyone, including the government to understand it. However, there are things that can be done:

1. As you stated, preventative care and healthier lifestyles go a long way to keeping most in good health. When it comes to 'check ups' and regular care-make it 'off insurance.' Docs will have lower costs, not having to have so many people to fill out insurance forms and fighting to have the tests they want or don't ordered/approved. They will also have more time to treat and talk with patients, perhaps picking up signs of some developing problem and heading it off.

2. Drop the dental and eye care coverages. Again paperwork, more importantly it's allowed costs to skyrocket beyond what would have normally occurred.

3. Have what used to be called 'hospitalization insurance', allowing this coverage for all, regardiless of pre-existing conditions. One way or another the sickest are going to get treatment, by having insurance there would be less time wasted waiting for approval, again with the possibility that the earlier the treatment, lower the costs.

4. For those that can't afford the major medical, keep Medicaid or have the state pay for/ subsidize the insurance.

5. Allow newly licensed doctors the opportunity to 'pay off' their school debt by working in clinics in inner cities or rural areas where there are shortages of doctors. Not only would this open up medicine as a career for those that can't afford it, some may well begin their practices in areas that are currently under served.

Those are actually excellent suggestions. Frankly, I'm hoping nothing does get passed this year. I think some breathing room, a timeout, is necessary. Here's what I posted in another thread:

So here's what I think will happen.

Congress will develop a health care reform plan dealing strictly with some sort of government guarantee that ALL eligible Americans will be covered by health insurance. The details will be worked out over the next few months, and a final bill will be voted upon.

However, that bill will include a moratorium on the government carrying out such a program for X-number of years (3 to 5 would be reasonable) during which time the private sector would need to get its own act together and REFORM their own methods of delivery so that more people would be eligible for coverage, at reasonable costs.

That's broadly put, but in my opinion, it's as far as any health care reform will go during Obama's first term. But at least ONE DOCUMENT will be out there, waiting in the wings, and another session of back-to-back draft plans muddying up the intent won't be required.

 

[sealybobo]

Great Idea! I said this was the solution to all our problems. Tax the fucking rich more.

Not too much, but more than Bush was taxing them.

And Obama is going to give their business' a tax break, so quit crying. But they'll get the breaks WHEN they buy or WHEN they hire. Not in hopes that they will.

That's what Bush did, and they didn't hire or spend.

Obama, you the man!!!

 

[Vel]

Those are actually excellent suggestions. Frankly, I'm hoping nothing does get passed this year. I think some breathing room, a timeout, is necessary. [/I]

And...if nothing gets done this year then House Democrats don't have to go home a face their districts for the 2010 election having just passed socialized medicine.

 

[Annie]

We're never going to find enough money to continue paying the HC establishment at rates of inflation double or triple the inflation rates on everything else, folks.

We cannot find the solution to the HC crises by taxing the rich, or taxing the smokers, or taxing freakin' Fritos, either.

The problems we are facing are based on fundamentals which we have very little control over...an aging population and modern medicine's ability to keep people alive just on more day but at very VERY high costs.

The market solution to this is to let people die who cannot afford HC. Nobody acknowledges that that's what's happening, but that IS what's happening, right now, anyway.

The semi-socialist solution to this is ALSO to let people die who cannot afford HC, too, only the HC planners don't fully understand that yet, or at least they're not willing to admit it.

We should be increasing our investment in creating healthier lifestyles and preventative medicine for the people, and stop spending heroic amounts of money keeping those who are dying anyway alive just because we can (as long as we spend 50% of every HC dollar spend on those last years of life, I mean).

Speaking as someone who WILL BE facing that last year of life sooner than most Americans, I know that my suggestion doesn't serve me very well, but society cannot pretend that death is merely one medical OPTION, anymore.

I know we all want the best possible medicine that exists, but honestly folks, society cannot afford to provide that to everyone.

Wishing we could do that won't make it so.

The root cause of the problem is that there is practically NO LIMIT to the demand for more, (and more expensive) HC.

I agree. It's time for everyone, including the government to understand it. However, there are things that can be done:

1. As you stated, preventative care and healthier lifestyles go a long way to keeping most in good health. When it comes to 'check ups' and regular care-make it 'off insurance.' Docs will have lower costs, not having to have so many people to fill out insurance forms and fighting to have the tests they want or don't ordered/approved. They will also have more time to treat and talk with patients, perhaps picking up signs of some developing problem and heading it off.

2. Drop the dental and eye care coverages. Again paperwork, more importantly it's allowed costs to skyrocket beyond what would have normally occurred.

3. Have what used to be called 'hospitalization insurance', allowing this coverage for all, regardiless of pre-existing conditions. One way or another the sickest are going to get treatment, by having insurance there would be less time wasted waiting for approval, again with the possibility that the earlier the treatment, lower the costs.

4. For those that can't afford the major medical, keep Medicaid or have the state pay for/ subsidize the insurance.

5. Allow newly licensed doctors the opportunity to 'pay off' their school debt by working in clinics in inner cities or rural areas where there are shortages of doctors. Not only would this open up medicine as a career for those that can't afford it, some may well begin their practices in areas that are currently under served.

Those are actually excellent suggestions. Frankly, I'm hoping nothing does get passed this year. I think some breathing room, a timeout, is necessary. Here's what I posted in another thread:

So here's what I think will happen.

Congress will develop a health care reform plan dealing strictly with some sort of government guarantee that ALL eligible Americans will be covered by health insurance. The details will be worked out over the next few months, and a final bill will be voted upon.

However, that bill will include a moratorium on the government carrying out such a program for X-number of years (3 to 5 would be reasonable) during which time the private sector would need to get its own act together and REFORM their own methods of delivery so that more people would be eligible for coverage, at reasonable costs.

That's broadly put, but in my opinion, it's as far as any health care reform will go during Obama's first term. But at least ONE DOCUMENT will be out there, waiting in the wings, and another session of back-to-back draft plans muddying up the intent won't be required.

Indeed they are a good start. Many more than myself have better ideas, but you are correct; the Democrats are going to pass an outrageous bill that will eventually be overturned by a new Congress. See bobo's post following. Sort of reminds me of the trillions thrown to automakers, only to have them go into bankruptcy, which we all knew was going to happen.

Face it. Obama admin. sucks.

 

[Maple]

Are you a socialist??? Is it fair for people who work hard, many small business people, who hire employees, over 80 % of Americans are employed by small business to punish their hard work and success so you can have your needs met????

Maybe, it could be, that you made poor choices, you were lazy and did not take opportunities that were before you that makes you one of these rich envy people.

I don't think you should be rewarded with other people's hard earned money, you did not earn it, and you probably had plenty of opportunities to do it.

Socialistic government- reward failure and punish success.

Margaret Thatcher" Socialism works fine until you run out of other people's money."

Run out- is what we are going to do, there simply is not enough people who make over $250,000 to flip the bill for everyone else.