House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales

[LordBrownTrout]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

Mass shootings get the headlines but aren't the real problem. It's the daily shootings that occur with handguns.

Background checks of all sales even between private parties makes a lot of sense.

They make no sense.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I think the Texas church mass shooter acquired his weapon by private sale or through a family member, but I'm not 100% on that. This is a guy with a history of criminal domestic abuse, restraining orders, and treatment for mental disorders. He should never have been able to acquire any weapon legally. If he did, I'm all for closing any loophole that allows anyone with a history of domestic violence from ever acquiring a gun, long, short or in-between.

Virtually all recent male mass shooters who had been married or in domestic partnerships, had a history of abuse and violence against their partners. That includes the Vegas shooter, the Texas church shooter, the guy who attacked the Republican baseball game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...21ef7165923_story.html?utm_term=.9626d49ae4c4

Not to mention the additional dangers domestic abusers pose to the partners and children if they own a gun:

Domestic Violence & Firearms | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Some jurisdictions have laws in place, but court cases aren't entered into data bases, so these guys slide through. There are many reasonable gun control laws on the books that could and would save lives, if the law enforcement data bases were kept up to date and correct, and all buyers and sellers were using them.

Criminals could care less about following the law. I don't expect you to understand this.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What a load of shit.

Universal background checks is not "criminalizing gun sales"

WHy the hell do you WANT secret gun sales anyway?

Because a gun is private property and you dont need to know what Im selling.

 

[OldLady]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I could be wrong, but I think columbine shooters got their guns that way. Long time ago so I don’t remember. But it’s your solution, just give the fun to your brother. How will they even know a transfer took place? This is an attempt at gun registration. Looks like the Nazis are starting to hurry.

No one would know unless the weapon was involved in a crime. But that's still helpful, imo.

 

[Crixus]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I could be wrong, but I think columbine shooters got their guns that way. Long time ago so I don’t remember. But it’s your solution, just give the fun to your brother. How will they even know a transfer took place? This is an attempt at gun registration. Looks like the Nazis are starting to hurry.

No one would know unless the weapon was involved in a crime. But that's still helpful, imo.

Not for the person who is shot it isn’t.

 

[Lesh]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I think the Texas church mass shooter acquired his weapon by private sale or through a family member, but I'm not 100% on that. This is a guy with a history of criminal domestic abuse, restraining orders, and treatment for mental disorders. He should never have been able to acquire any weapon legally. If he did, I'm all for closing any loophole that allows anyone with a history of domestic violence from ever acquiring a gun, long, short or in-between.

Virtually all recent male mass shooters who had been married or in domestic partnerships, had a history of abuse and violence against their partners. That includes the Vegas shooter, the Texas church shooter, the guy who attacked the Republican baseball game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...21ef7165923_story.html?utm_term=.9626d49ae4c4

Not to mention the additional dangers domestic abusers pose to the partners and children if they own a gun:

Domestic Violence & Firearms | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Some jurisdictions have laws in place, but court cases aren't entered into data bases, so these guys slide through. There are many reasonable gun control laws on the books that could and would save lives, if the law enforcement data bases were kept up to date and correct, and all buyers and sellers were using them.

Criminals could care less about following the law. I don't expect you to understand this.

That’s a stupid argument. What idiot told you that made sense?

So if criminals break laws we shouldn’t have laws??

Huh?

 

[RDD_1210]

Post Crime Rating: Medium

Crime Threats

Historically, crime rates throughout Germany have been comparable to those in most first-world countries, including the U.S., and comparative analysis of crime data for the U.S. and Germany reveals only marginal differences. The Bundeskriminalamt’s (BKA) 2014 Police Crime Statistics for Germany indicated only minor changes in the number of most of the recorded offenses over 2013. There were, however, some exceptions. Most notably there was a seven percent increase in bicycle theft and a 16 percent increase in the number of pickpocket cases reported. There were also marked increases in the various categories related to credit card fraud. While the 2014 statistics (the latest available) for Germany are of interest, they fail to capture any effect that the approximately one million refugees and asylum seekers who arrived in country in 2015 may have had on crime.

According to the very latest available statistics for Berlin, specifically the first quarter of 2015, there were significant increases in a number of crime categories over 2014. These increases included: drug related crime 19 percent; pickpocketing 24 percent; homicide 33 percent; and burglary 43 percent. Although more recent statistics have yet to be made available, police report there were significant increases in some crimes such as burglary and pickpocketing Berlin in 2015 compared to 2014.
https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=19030

The problem is criminals will not follow any law they don’t have to. Think, Jethro.

And you think most of those follow laws now?

I can just see it, “oh, wait, I need to do a background check on you before I sell you this black market gun...”. Lol

Mass shootings get the headlines but aren't the real problem. It's the daily shootings that occur with handguns.

Background checks of all sales even between private parties makes a lot of sense.

No one said this will fix all issues. No single law does. But otherwise really good job of thinking things through Jethro.

LOL, the old "criminals don't follow laws" tired argument.

So tell me, how did every other first world nation manage to weed criminals out of their societies? No criminals to be found apparently. How do you think they did that?

Wait, there are criminals in Germany? Are you sure?

 

[iceberg]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I could be wrong, but I think columbine shooters got their guns that way. Long time ago so I don’t remember. But it’s your solution, just give the fun to your brother. How will they even know a transfer took place? This is an attempt at gun registration. Looks like the Nazis are starting to hurry.

No one would know unless the weapon was involved in a crime. But that's still helpful, imo.

i believe it varies but they don't keep who owns the gun on file. sometimes.

i don't disagree we could use a better gun system, i just disagree with making laws that can't be linked to resolving a single issue.

 

[Crixus]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I could be wrong, but I think columbine shooters got their guns that way. Long time ago so I don’t remember. But it’s your solution, just give the fun to your brother. How will they even know a transfer took place? This is an attempt at gun registration. Looks like the Nazis are starting to hurry.

No one would know unless the weapon was involved in a crime. But that's still helpful, imo.

i believe it varies but they don't keep who owns the gun on file. sometimes.

i don't disagree we could use a better gun system, i just disagree with making laws that can't be linked to resolving a single issue.

But the laws cover you and me. I will follow the law when selling a gun to you. Riki also will continue doing what they do.

 

[iceberg]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I could be wrong, but I think columbine shooters got their guns that way. Long time ago so I don’t remember. But it’s your solution, just give the fun to your brother. How will they even know a transfer took place? This is an attempt at gun registration. Looks like the Nazis are starting to hurry.

No one would know unless the weapon was involved in a crime. But that's still helpful, imo.

i believe it varies but they don't keep who owns the gun on file. sometimes.

i don't disagree we could use a better gun system, i just disagree with making laws that can't be linked to resolving a single issue.

But the laws cover you and me. I will follow the law when selling a gun to you. Riki also will continue doing what they do.

yep. like i said, this particular move will do nothing to address overall gun violence in this country. i ask for someone ANYONE to link these sales to shootings and people just scream to do SOMETHING.

again - my selling a neighbor a gun is the intent of the law. someone selling several guns a week or even month is a dealer and there are laws around that already.

 

[Crixus]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I could be wrong, but I think columbine shooters got their guns that way. Long time ago so I don’t remember. But it’s your solution, just give the fun to your brother. How will they even know a transfer took place? This is an attempt at gun registration. Looks like the Nazis are starting to hurry.

No one would know unless the weapon was involved in a crime. But that's still helpful, imo.

i believe it varies but they don't keep who owns the gun on file. sometimes.

i don't disagree we could use a better gun system, i just disagree with making laws that can't be linked to resolving a single issue.

But the laws cover you and me. I will follow the law when selling a gun to you. Riki also will continue doing what they do.

yep. like i said, this particular move will do nothing to address overall gun violence in this country. i ask for someone ANYONE to link these sales to shootings and people just scream to do SOMETHING.

again - my selling a neighbor a gun is the intent of the law. someone selling several guns a week or even month is a dealer and there are laws around that already.

There is.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

This is a lie.

The legislation would authorize background checks for private gun sales.

Private gun sales would remain perfectly legal.

And the courts have held that such background checks are Constitutional.

 

[Wry Catcher]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

Mass shootings get the headlines but aren't the real problem. It's the daily shootings that occur with handguns.

Background checks of all sales even between private parties makes a lot of sense.

then please show me the amount of people killed by guns bought in this manner.

keep in mind that people who sell multiple guns under this "loophole" are already breaking the law. but instead of going after them we simply change a law they've already shown they don't about.

makes zero sense and is a huge reason why the right says FOAD when the left demands changes and "common sense".

common sense says to use a flyswatter to kill a fly. not tell it to go away in yet another language.

Is your sense of "common sense" always just? You may know the argument on weapons is as old as Plato, for those who do not, read this link:

The Madman and the Sword | The Asia-Pacific Journal: Japan Focus

Excerpt from the link:


The Madman and the Sword


In the course of the dialogue it becomes clear that what Socrates means by the sword is the violent power of the state (OK, the polis), and that what he means by mania is political madness, the madness that can overcome a person who possesses, or thinks he possesses, absolute power. In his portrait of the despot, Socrates describes a person who believes that there is no power on earth that can limit his action, and that he (and only he) is free to do whatever he chooses. As he sees no limits outside himself, the limits within his own mind also disintegrate, and he descends into madness. Does justice require us, Socrates asks, to give this man the sword?

[This seems to be clear especially in today's environment; however, the original argument on selling or giving a weapon to another without a background check is in Plato;'s Republic.

Is it just when you (the reader) return the personal property (a gun) to a madman?

 

[Dana7360]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

Your title is not true.

The democrats voted to require background checks on all weapon sales.

No one criminalized private gun sales. As long as you get that background check you're not a criminal.

A few years ago the same issue was on the ballot in my state.

It passed with a very good margin. I voted in the majority.

A background check on all weapon sales including private sales has been required in my state for several years now. It's easy to do and it helps keep weapons out of the hands of crazy people.

How is the citizenry accessing NICS in your state?

You can read about how it's done at this link. Basically those who are already federal license gun sellers do the check.

During 2014, the State of Washington became the first state to create a law which required background checks on private firearms sales via voter initiative. This law made it mandatory for private sellers and buyers to perform transactions for firearms via FFLs (firearms dealers who are federally licensed).

The federally-licensed firearm dealer, or FFL, is now required to process transactions as though dealers are selling firearms from their own inventories and therefore must adhere to the same state and federal laws which regulate the business practices of dealers of firearms. For example, FFLs will need to perform background checks on purchasers.

How to Transfer Private Gun Ownership in Washington State | Sporting Systems

 

[Dana7360]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

Your title is not true.

The democrats voted to require background checks on all weapon sales.

No one criminalized private gun sales. As long as you get that background check you're not a criminal.

A few years ago the same issue was on the ballot in my state.

It passed with a very good margin. I voted in the majority.

A background check on all weapon sales including private sales has been required in my state for several years now. It's easy to do and it helps keep weapons out of the hands of crazy people.

I swear, you gun people will lie and do anything to prevent any reasonable and proper safety regulations on weapons. You're the reason why crazy people are able to get weapons to kill innocent people. You refuse to accept any reasonable and proper safety regulations on weapons. If you're a criminal or mentally unstable I can see why you wouldn't want any background checks. Which that's the only reason I can see why you people are so afraid and against any reasonable and proper safety regulations on weapons.

i didn't have **** shit to do with the title assholio - its from the story itself. go ***** at them.

also - right now i can sell my neighbor my ruger 10/22 and all good. if they pass this, i must take him to a pawn shop and pay $25 for a background check or i'm a criminal.

you really are totally void of facts and totally full of shit.

I couldn't get past the lame excuse and vulgar language in your first sentence.

Do you kiss the people you love with that filthy mouth?

You are perfectly free to create the title of the thread. You didn't have to post the lie. I didn't click on your link because I don't go to far right wing propaganda sites that lie. So I don't know if that's the title of the article or not. Nor do I know what the article says.

I do know what our congress is doing. I actually pay attention to the honest truth of what our congress is doing. I don't rely on propaganda liars for my information.

You didn't have to use the title of the article in your title of the thread nor did you have to post the lie that congress is voting to make private weapon sales criminal.

It's nothing but a lie and you reposted it. Either you reposted it knowing it was a lie and wanted to just lie to people or you didn't know it was a lie and you're so very uninformed that you will buy lies when they're fed to you.

 

[Wry Catcher]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

Your title is not true.

The democrats voted to require background checks on all weapon sales.

No one criminalized private gun sales. As long as you get that background check you're not a criminal.

A few years ago the same issue was on the ballot in my state.

It passed with a very good margin. I voted in the majority.

A background check on all weapon sales including private sales has been required in my state for several years now. It's easy to do and it helps keep weapons out of the hands of crazy people.

How is the citizenry accessing NICS in your state?

You can read about how it's done at this link. Basically those who are already federal license gun sellers do the check.

During 2014, the State of Washington became the first state to create a law which required background checks on private firearms salesvia voter initiative. This law made it mandatory for private sellers and buyers to perform transactions for firearms via FFLs (firearms dealers who are federally licensed).

The federally-licensed firearm dealer, or FFL, is now required to process transactions as though dealers are selling firearms from their own inventories and therefore must adhere to the same state and federal laws which regulate the business practices of dealers of firearms. For example, FFLs will need to perform background checks on purchasers.

How to Transfer Private Gun Ownership in Washington State | Sporting Systems

All gun transfers ought to require a background check.

 

[ThisIsMe]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

I think the Texas church mass shooter acquired his weapon by private sale or through a family member, but I'm not 100% on that. This is a guy with a history of criminal domestic abuse, restraining orders, and treatment for mental disorders. He should never have been able to acquire any weapon legally. If he did, I'm all for closing any loophole that allows anyone with a history of domestic violence from ever acquiring a gun, long, short or in-between.

Virtually all recent male mass shooters who had been married or in domestic partnerships, had a history of abuse and violence against their partners. That includes the Vegas shooter, the Texas church shooter, the guy who attacked the Republican baseball game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...21ef7165923_story.html?utm_term=.9626d49ae4c4

Not to mention the additional dangers domestic abusers pose to the partners and children if they own a gun:

Domestic Violence & Firearms | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Some jurisdictions have laws in place, but court cases aren't entered into data bases, so these guys slide through. There are many reasonable gun control laws on the books that could and would save lives, if the law enforcement data bases were kept up to date and correct, and all buyers and sellers were using them.

I just have some hesitancy of the broad statement of "anyone convicted of domestic violence should be banned from having guns", because we all know the definition of domestic violence will migrate over time.

Next thing you know, if you got into a bar fight 20 years ago, they will deny you the right to own a gun.

It just leads to too many potential problems.


Also, as it has already been said, it's not the law abiding citizen you need to worry about, it's the non law abiding citizen, which, they are not following laws anyway, there would be no reason to think they will follow gun laws.

 

[TrumpisDaResistance]

they're trying to get rid of ghost guns too. this is why the 2nd amendment was written. corrupt powergrabbers, like the demoncrats.


“However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.” ― George Washington

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.” ― George Washington

“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.” ― George Washington

 

[Dana7360]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

Your title is not true.

The democrats voted to require background checks on all weapon sales.

No one criminalized private gun sales. As long as you get that background check you're not a criminal.

A few years ago the same issue was on the ballot in my state.

It passed with a very good margin. I voted in the majority.

A background check on all weapon sales including private sales has been required in my state for several years now. It's easy to do and it helps keep weapons out of the hands of crazy people.

How is the citizenry accessing NICS in your state?

You can read about how it's done at this link. Basically those who are already federal license gun sellers do the check.

During 2014, the State of Washington became the first state to create a law which required background checks on private firearms salesvia voter initiative. This law made it mandatory for private sellers and buyers to perform transactions for firearms via FFLs (firearms dealers who are federally licensed).

The federally-licensed firearm dealer, or FFL, is now required to process transactions as though dealers are selling firearms from their own inventories and therefore must adhere to the same state and federal laws which regulate the business practices of dealers of firearms. For example, FFLs will need to perform background checks on purchasers.

How to Transfer Private Gun Ownership in Washington State | Sporting Systems

All gun transfers ought to require a background check.

They are in my state. We didn't wait for our politicians to do it either.

We did by the ballot initiative. It was all done by the people of my state. We got a petition, we got enough legal signatures to get it on the ballot then we got a very healthy majority YES margin that passed it. I voted in the majority.

No politician or judge did this.

It was done by the people of my state.

 

[ThisIsMe]

House Democrats Plan Vote to Criminalize Private Gun Sales This Week

i'm all for reviewing laws and changes that we know would affect events that have happened. this does nothing of the sort. it means if i sell my gun to my brother, i'm a criminal if i don't do a background check.

fine. i'll give it to him. problem solved.

but you can't name a single mass shooting where the gun was obtained in this manner. yet, this is what we're after.

Your title is not true.

The democrats voted to require background checks on all weapon sales.

No one criminalized private gun sales. As long as you get that background check you're not a criminal.

A few years ago the same issue was on the ballot in my state.

It passed with a very good margin. I voted in the majority.

A background check on all weapon sales including private sales has been required in my state for several years now. It's easy to do and it helps keep weapons out of the hands of crazy people.

How is the citizenry accessing NICS in your state?

You can read about how it's done at this link. Basically those who are already federal license gun sellers do the check.

During 2014, the State of Washington became the first state to create a law which required background checks on private firearms salesvia voter initiative. This law made it mandatory for private sellers and buyers to perform transactions for firearms via FFLs (firearms dealers who are federally licensed).

The federally-licensed firearm dealer, or FFL, is now required to process transactions as though dealers are selling firearms from their own inventories and therefore must adhere to the same state and federal laws which regulate the business practices of dealers of firearms. For example, FFLs will need to perform background checks on purchasers.

How to Transfer Private Gun Ownership in Washington State | Sporting Systems

All gun transfers ought to require a background check.

I just think that isn't the fix. The only people who are going to submit to a background check are those who would likely not commit a crime with a firearm.

The person intent on commiting gun crimes isn't going to do that.

I understand we need to fix the problem of gun crimes, but more laws only serve to restrict the law abiding citizen, and doesnt hinder the criminal.

The problem with going overboard with gun laws is that, in the end, the only people to be disarmed are the law abiding populace, rendering them defenseless against the criminal populace.