Debate Now Honest Debate About Abortion: Rules Posted

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The fetus is not have personhood in and of itslef, only by what it depends on from its host.

If the host is damaged or killed, the fetus can accrue legal standing for reparation for damages and criminality.

 

[JoeB131]

Granted, a very polarizing topic in today's political landscape.

However, I'm happy to discuss the topic with people in good faith who aren't seeking to ego-post, troll, slander, insult, etc. Such discourse is just boring, and I lose interest.

Rules:
1. No political references or accusations. It's about the act of abortion only.
2. No flaming/insults
3. No involving religion.

My take:
At this time, Abortion should be banned after 5 weeks, or what some states view as the "heart beat bill". As science increases on the human fetus (fetus means "offspring"), it increasingly tells us that earlier and earlier measures must be taken to protect it.

This is a unique scenario that is sex-specific, thus, one cannot approach it if you view both sexes as completely and entirely equal in all physical aspects (which is biologically easily proven to be untrue).

I think there are 2 modern viewpoints on abortion.

One is from a victim mentality, with the primary focus on how the consequences of high-volume sex are "forced" onto women, how it's some sort of biological unfairness, how only women can dictate when a life should begin, how consequence-free sexual pleasure is a "right" despite biological truths, and how they should be able to be "freed" from this biological truth by putting their own interests in front of the "consequence" (aka natural cause) of the action they chose to participate in.

The other is from two mentalities, one from the philosophical, the other from the medical. It simply seeks to innocently define what human life is, and no sexes are excluded from discussing this topic, as it effects all humanity. It addresses what the act of sex causes, establishes the differences that the act has on men and women, and acknowledges how these results manifest in society. It promotes the idea that men and women are biologically different, and how that truth will manifest differently in the world by their abilities and choices. It is compassionate to the vulnerable, innocent possible-beings that are voiceless to speak out in the name of supporting their right to their own life/existence, and references medical definitions of life to provide evidence to support these claims.

What Say you?

I say you are being completely unrealistic and don't live in the real world.

The reason WHY SCOTUS struck down all the state abortion laws in 1973 is because they were unworkable. Women and their doctors were ignoring them. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she will find a way to not be pregnant, and the technology to end unwanted pregnancies is much, much more effective than it was in 1973.

 

[JoeB131]

I think Texas' law is too restrictive, again to me 10-15 weeks for a birth control abortion.

Or you can just try minding your own business. That works, too.

 

[martybegan]

Or you can just try minding your own business. That works, too.

As an American I don't have to.

 

[Zincwarrior]

As an American I don't have to.

Historically that was the Republican position. Republicans made it their bread and butter to mind their own business.

 

[martybegan]

Historically that was the Republican position. Republicans made it their bread and butter to mind their own business.

Saying "Mind your own business" is just a cop out to really say "you shouldn't have that opinion because only my opinion is valid. "

It's what I've been saying in threads recently, our whole problem is one side doesn't believe the other has the right to their views.

"The Right thinks the Left's ideas/positions are retarded, the Left thinks the Right's ideas/positions shouldn't even exist.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Not now.

 

[JoeB131]

As an American I don't have to.

Did you actually read your tagline about "Tyranny"? It kind of sounds like you are being what you complain about, someone who will oppress you for "your own good".

Forcing a woman to have her rapist's baby is a lot more serious an imposition on freedom than making them bake a cake with two dudes on the top.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The more those of the 50s die off, the better the country will be.

 

[martybegan]

Did you actually read your tagline about "Tyranny"? It kind of sounds like you are being what you complain about, someone who will oppress you for "your own good".

Forcing a woman to have her rapist's baby is a lot more serious an imposition on freedom than making them bake a cake with two dudes on the top.

Tyranny is saying the other side has no right to their opinion. That's only coming from the left these days.

Very few people support restrictions going that far. But you have to bring up the extremists to try to make your point.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Saying "Mind your own business" is just a cop out to really say "you shouldn't have that opinion because only my opinion is valid. "

having an opinion is one thing. enforcing your opinion on others via government men with guns is another.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

"Tyranny is saying the other side has no right to their opinion. That's only coming from the left these days" is a deliberate right wing falsehood.

 

[martybegan]

having an opinion is one thing. enforcing your opinion on others via government men with guns is another.

That's called government. all government is force in some way.

 

[Zincwarrior]

That's called government. all government is force in some way.

exactly.

 

[martybegan]

exactly.

Then your solution is no government?

Then the force comes from a different direction, or directions.

 

[JoeB131]

Tyranny is saying the other side has no right to their opinion. That's only coming from the left these days.

Very few people support restrictions going that far. But you have to bring up the extremists to try to make your point.

i haven't heard anyone way you souldn't have your ignorant opinion.

If you take the position that a fetus is the same as a human, that extreme becomes quite logical.

 

[martybegan]

i haven't heard anyone way you souldn't have your ignorant opinion.

If you take the position that a fetus is the same as a human, that extreme becomes quite logical.

When you try to use the heckler's veto, that's what you are saying.
When you cheer social media shutting down an opinion, that's what you are saying.
When you fine someone 245k for not baking a cake, that's what you are saying.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Then your solution is no government?

Then the force comes from a different direction, or directions.

Alternatively, if you are against something: abortion, EVs, gay marriage, vegetables, then don't have an abortion, drive an EV, be gay married, or eat vegetables.

Thats the primary issue with abortion. Most voters are against abortion at some point, but don't want the government overall excluding that right. As an example, She Who Must Be Obeyed is strongly opposed to abortion, but more opposed to the government making it illegal.

 

[martybegan]

Alternatively, if you are against something: abortion, EVs, gay marriage, vegetables, then don't have an abortion, drive an EV, be gay married, or eat vegetables.

Thats the primary issue with abortion. Most voters are against abortion at some point, but don't want the government overall excluding that right. As an example, She Who Must Be Obeyed is strongly opposed to abortion, but more opposed to the government making it illegal.

That's another cop out. People are allowed to have opinions and vote for laws that follow those opinions.

You can also say if you don't live in Alabama, why do you care if they ban abortion of gay marriage?

 

[JoeB131]

When you try to use the heckler's veto, that's what you are saying.

I'm sorry you are such a snowflake you can't take a little criticism.

When you cheer social media shutting down an opinion, that's what you are saying.

They didn't shut down opinions, they shut down misinformation.

I had a post of mine removed from Nextdoor over the weekend.

They asked why there was a police presence at a certain corner in our neighborhood. I knew that this was a corner where Trump cultists hang out every weekend. But the second I typed in the word "Trump"., they try to censor it. So I typed in "Supporters of a certain convicted felon!" It got pulled for being "Not local" (even though it described a local issue" and "Disrespectful".

I've had a few posts on Facebook labelled as "misinformation" as well. (one was valid, the other was an opinion.)

When you fine someone 245k for not baking a cake, that's what you are saying.

Nope, they were breaking the law.

A law everyone thought was pretty reasonable.