Homosexuality: Some natural and some unnatural?

[Expat]

*shrug* If we left things to nature, we wouldn't have modern medicine. Man hasn't been worried about following nature in a long time.

Modern medicine is a result of man's natural intellectual capabilities.

And man's natural intellect has expanded sex beyond perpetuating the species. What's the problem?

 

[DarkLion]

So you're going to use irrational animal behavior to measure what is morally acceptable behavior for rational man.

Animals are not irrational. Such a term does not even apply to animals.

You do know that animal cognition is purely sensorial, limited to sound, odor, touch, taste and image. They lack the precision and clarity of human intellectual perception.

While their perception is more limited than ours, they do have more cognitive capabilities beyond just the five senses. This has been proven in many species. You're underestimating animals severely.

A dog humping your leg, does that mean beastiality is normal and natural?

There's nothing wrong with that. And it's spelled bestiality, by the way

 

[DarkLion]

How could you not? It deviates from nature's reproductive biological imperative.
I'm straight, but have no children. My behavior is deviant as well.

Well, I just don't like the word "deviant". It has bad connotations. I use the word "alternate" or something like that. But then again if you're deviant then holy shit I am too lol.

 

[emilynghiem]

Come on kids.

We all knew who the girlie boys were even as kids.

Those boys were gay (just like many of us were not) long Looooooooooooooooog before puberty hit them.

They no more made a decision to be gay than I made the decision to be hetero.

Next time some homophobe tells you that gays choose to be gay, ask then when they CHOOSE not to be.

Typically they are offended that you could even imagine that they might every have been anything but hetero.

Funny but good point, Editec!

I know with my boyfriend, I did not choose to love him.
its a lot of trouble for both of us, because we're so different
we have to work through a lot of differences to manage some things.

it would be easier for both us NOT to have to deal with each other.
but we are connected that way, and it is good for us to
check and balance each other, I guess. spiritually there
are reasons we are yoked, and I believe that is true of
other partners who find themselves in relations that
all kinds of conditions need to be resovled to make things work.
it's part of the spiritual process, and these things incarnate
and manifest this way for a reason, for us to grow spiritually
to rise above conditions and learn to live and love unconditionally.

these challenges happen for a reason, so let's make the most of them
and use them for good purpose that benefits everyone equally.

 

[MaryL]

Natural: meaning "good". Animals have gay sex? Not exactly a revelation. Animals also eat their young, also devour their poop, and animals kill rivals offspring. Also, Arsenic is natural, so is highly toxic uranium. Nature is like that. What “natural” means is open to interpretation. Animals don't try to use logic to justify what they do, I will give them that. Homosexuality is a dysfunction, nature sort of allows things like that because mutations sometimes are beneficial, but most times are not. Another harsh fact here: rights are a man-made construct, artificial. Nowhere in nature are there "rights". Marriage is, a human artifice. It's not bound by what is fair to everyone, it doesn’t have to be. Where did people get that impression?

 

[Expat]

Natural: meaning "good". Animals have gay sex? Not exactly a revelation. Animals also eat their young, also devour their poop, and animals kill rivals offspring. Also, Arsenic is natural, so is highly toxic uranium. Nature is like that. What “natural” means is open to interpretation. Animals don't try to use logic to justify what they do, I will give them that. Homosexuality is a dysfunction, nature sort of allows things like that because mutations sometimes are beneficial, but most times are not. Another harsh fact here: rights are a man-made construct, artificial. Nowhere in nature are there "rights". Marriage is, a human artifice. It's not bound by what is fair to everyone, it doesn’t have to be. Where did people get that impression?

In that case, lets just drop marriage altogether. We're not bound to be fair to anyone right?

 

[Mordent]

*shrug* If we left things to nature, we wouldn't have modern medicine. Man hasn't been worried about following nature in a long time.

Modern medicine is a result of man's natural intellectual capabilities.

And man's natural intellect has expanded sex beyond perpetuating the species. What's the problem?

Anal sex may be one of your intellectual pursuits, but most would consider it something less cerebral. Regardless, I've never claimed homosexuality was unnatural, just deviant.

 

[Mordent]

How could you not? It deviates from nature's reproductive biological imperative.
I'm straight, but have no children. My behavior is deviant as well.

Well, I just don't like the word "deviant". It has bad connotations. I use the word "alternate" or something like that. But then again if you're deviant then holy shit I am too lol.

Fair enough, but it is appropriate. Unless the majority of the population becomes gay, it will always be a deviance from the norm, making it deviant behavior. I am a deviant in many ways, just not sexually... =)

 

[Montrovant]

How could you not? It deviates from nature's reproductive biological imperative.
I'm straight, but have no children. My behavior is deviant as well.

Well, I just don't like the word "deviant". It has bad connotations. I use the word "alternate" or something like that. But then again if you're deviant then holy shit I am too lol.

Fair enough, but it is appropriate. Unless the majority of the population becomes gay, it will always be a deviance from the norm, making it deviant behavior. I am a deviant in many ways, just not sexually... =)

I wouldn't be so quick to say you aren't sexually deviant......do you do anything other than basic missionary sex? If so, you may be sexually deviant!

 

[Expat]

Modern medicine is a result of man's natural intellectual capabilities.

And man's natural intellect has expanded sex beyond perpetuating the species. What's the problem?

Anal sex may be one of your intellectual pursuits, but most would consider it something less cerebral. Regardless, I've never claimed homosexuality was unnatural, just deviant.

Mind out of the gutter. I was actually referring to love and attraction. Can't say I ever thought to try anal sex. I should ask my husband. See if I can make him blush and get squirrelly. There's some entertainment.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It occurs in nature, therefore it must be natural. However, it is a deviant behavior which is naturally limited by the inability to reproduce.

In spite of this "natural limitation" on reproduction homosexuality has been been around for millennia. So far from being a "deviant behavior" it must have some natural purpose in order for the trait to survive. Having males that are not competing for females but still capable of defending the tribe would be a positive evolutionary trait. Having females that did not get pregnant but were able to assist with child rearing and food gathering would be a positive evolutionary trait.

The only "deviant behavior" occurs amongst those who are intolerant and discriminate against those who don't share the same sexual orientation.

 

[Katzndogz]

It occurs in nature, therefore it must be natural. However, it is a deviant behavior which is naturally limited by the inability to reproduce.

In spite of this "natural limitation" on reproduction homosexuality has been been around for millennia. So far from being a "deviant behavior" it must have some natural purpose in order for the trait to survive. Having males that are not competing for females but still capable of defending the tribe would be a positive evolutionary trait. Having females that did not get pregnant but were able to assist with child rearing and food gathering would be a positive evolutionary trait.

The only "deviant behavior" occurs amongst those who are intolerant and discriminate against those who don't share the same sexual orientation.

The trait does NOT survive. Homosexuality is not passed down from generation to generation. It is a naturally occurring anomaly. It is not a genetic mutation that survives because it is beneficial. It is more like dwarfism. Dwarfs supply no evolutionary need, they are not particularly beneficial, yet dwarves have been around as long as human beings have been around.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It occurs in nature, therefore it must be natural. However, it is a deviant behavior which is naturally limited by the inability to reproduce.

In spite of this "natural limitation" on reproduction homosexuality has been been around for millennia. So far from being a "deviant behavior" it must have some natural purpose in order for the trait to survive. Having males that are not competing for females but still capable of defending the tribe would be a positive evolutionary trait. Having females that did not get pregnant but were able to assist with child rearing and food gathering would be a positive evolutionary trait.

The only "deviant behavior" occurs amongst those who are intolerant and discriminate against those who don't share the same sexual orientation.

The trait does NOT survive. Homosexuality is not passed down from generation to generation. It is a naturally occurring anomaly. It is not a genetic mutation that survives because it is beneficial. It is more like dwarfism. Dwarfs supply no evolutionary need, they are not particularly beneficial, yet dwarves have been around as long as human beings have been around.

Perhaps you would benefit from reading Darwin's Origin of Species. People of smaller stature require less food and are thus better able to survive when food is scarce.

 

[MaryL]

Natural: meaning "good". Animals have gay sex? Not exactly a revelation. Animals also eat their young, also devour their poop, and animals kill rivals offspring. Also, Arsenic is natural, so is highly toxic uranium. Nature is like that. What “natural” means is open to interpretation. Animals don't try to use logic to justify what they do, I will give them that. Homosexuality is a dysfunction, nature sort of allows things like that because mutations sometimes are beneficial, but most times are not. Another harsh fact here: rights are a man-made construct, artificial. Nowhere in nature are there "rights". Marriage is, a human artifice. It's not bound by what is fair to everyone, it doesn’t have to be. Where did people get that impression?

In that case, lets just drop marriage altogether. We're not bound to be fair to anyone right?

Are we bound to fairness? 170 years ago, it was fair to own slaves, 90 years ago women couldn't vote. 60 years ago racial segregation was legal. What is "fairness"? It seems to be a convention of peer pressure...not of some transcendent concept . What fairness IS depends on the times and popular sentiment, doesn’t it?

 

[Expat]

Natural: meaning "good". Animals have gay sex? Not exactly a revelation. Animals also eat their young, also devour their poop, and animals kill rivals offspring. Also, Arsenic is natural, so is highly toxic uranium. Nature is like that. What “natural” means is open to interpretation. Animals don't try to use logic to justify what they do, I will give them that. Homosexuality is a dysfunction, nature sort of allows things like that because mutations sometimes are beneficial, but most times are not. Another harsh fact here: rights are a man-made construct, artificial. Nowhere in nature are there "rights". Marriage is, a human artifice. It's not bound by what is fair to everyone, it doesn’t have to be. Where did people get that impression?

In that case, lets just drop marriage altogether. We're not bound to be fair to anyone right?

Are we bound to fairness? 170 years ago, it was fair to own slaves, 90 years ago women couldn't vote. 60 years ago racial segregation was legal. What is "fairness"? It seems to be a convention of peer pressure...not of some transcendent concept . What fairness IS depends on the times and popular sentiment, doesn’t it?

Slaves weren't freed by votes. Racial segregation wasn't ended by votes. Men didn't vote for women to have the right to vote. Same sex marriage shouldn't be voted on.

 

[MaryL]

In that case, lets just drop marriage altogether. We're not bound to be fair to anyone right?

Are we bound to fairness? 170 years ago, it was fair to own slaves, 90 years ago women couldn't vote. 60 years ago racial segregation was legal. What is "fairness"? It seems to be a convention of peer pressure...not of some transcendent concept . What fairness IS depends on the times and popular sentiment, doesn’t it?

Slaves weren't freed by votes. Racial segregation wasn't ended by votes. Men didn't vote for women to have the right to vote. Same sex marriage shouldn't be voted on.

OK. Not sure where to go with that. You overlooked my point, let me make this clear: there isn't any such thing as "fair". Fair is a matter of popular opinion at the time. OK, now we have Homosexuals floating cash out there like so many BP or NRA reps trying to buy popular opinion in America. The fact that they (BP) created the biggest oil spill of all time, or (the NRA) help contribute to the cause of murder of innocent school children, that is "Fair" in this country. Fair. I wonder what that means anymore. Gays don't need to get married; they want it as symbol of acceptance. We all know it. I won’t willingly to give it to them and they don't really need it anyway. Have I made myself clear? Fair? What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Expat]

Are we bound to fairness? 170 years ago, it was fair to own slaves, 90 years ago women couldn't vote. 60 years ago racial segregation was legal. What is "fairness"? It seems to be a convention of peer pressure...not of some transcendent concept . What fairness IS depends on the times and popular sentiment, doesn’t it?

Slaves weren't freed by votes. Racial segregation wasn't ended by votes. Men didn't vote for women to have the right to vote. Same sex marriage shouldn't be voted on.

OK. Not sure where to go with that. You overlooked my point, let me make this clear: there isn't any such thing as "fair". Fair is a matter of popular opinion at the time. OK, now we have Homosexuals floating cash out there like so many BP or NRA reps trying to buy popular opinion in America. The fact that they (BP) created the biggest oil spill of all time, or (the NRA) help contribute to the cause of murder of innocent school children, that is "Fair" in this country. Fair. I wonder what that means anymore. Gays don't need to get married; they want it as symbol of acceptance. We all know it. I won’t willingly to give it to them and they don't really need it anyway. Have I made myself clear? Fair? What does that have to do with anything?

You missed my point. Popular opinion didn't bring about these changes. People wpuld have argued women didn't need to vote. Slaves didn't need to be freed. And "Negroes" didn't need the end of segregation.

Homosexuals need same sex marriage as much as these other groups needed to be treated fairly. Life isn't always fair. But this is one thing that can be made fair. You don't wait for popular opinion (votes) to change civil rights.

 

[Gadawg73]

Are we bound to fairness? 170 years ago, it was fair to own slaves, 90 years ago women couldn't vote. 60 years ago racial segregation was legal. What is "fairness"? It seems to be a convention of peer pressure...not of some transcendent concept . What fairness IS depends on the times and popular sentiment, doesn’t it?

Slaves weren't freed by votes. Racial segregation wasn't ended by votes. Men didn't vote for women to have the right to vote. Same sex marriage shouldn't be voted on.

OK. Not sure where to go with that. You overlooked my point, let me make this clear: there isn't any such thing as "fair". Fair is a matter of popular opinion at the time. OK, now we have Homosexuals floating cash out there like so many BP or NRA reps trying to buy popular opinion in America. The fact that they (BP) created the biggest oil spill of all time, or (the NRA) help contribute to the cause of murder of innocent school children, that is "Fair" in this country. Fair. I wonder what that means anymore. Gays don't need to get married; they want it as symbol of acceptance. We all know it. I won’t willingly to give it to them and they don't really need it anyway. Have I made myself clear? Fair? What does that have to do with anything?

Blacks and whites do not need to get married either so why let them?
We do not need it like you say.
No one needs to be accepted in this country. Why should we accept anyone?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Homosexual behavior has been documented in several thousand species of animals. I think it's safe to say it's a natural phenomenon.

Sexual behavior that some researchers have anthropomorphized into something else is widely documented. All that it really proves is that sex is a much stronger force than most people want to admit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you can really and happily CHOOSE whether you will engage in homor or hetero congress?

Then you are not a hetero or homosexual, then you are an authentic bisexual.

I think those people are rare compared to heteros or homos, but, yes I do think TRUE bisexuals exist.

As opposed to fake bisexuals who have sex with both sexes by not choice.