Homosexuality - Sickness or Sanctioned?

[007]

Homosexuality - Sickness or Sanctioned?​

Rabbi Zalman Baruch Melamed

Written by the rabbi

Dedicated to the memory of
Amram son of Sultana


That which to one sector of society is conceived of as a serious form of mental illness, is seen by another as being a perfectly legitimate inclination. Part of society classifies homosexuals and lesbians as mentally disturbed, while others consider them healthy individuals who happen to possess unusual desires. The latter claim that it is impossible to attack homosexuals on the grounds of immorality, for their inner nature is just so. The progressive stance, adopted by unprejudiced liberals states that every behavioral code is legitimate so long as it does not hurt others - no matter how warped it may appear on a personal level. Even if such behavior causes physical or spiritual damage to its follower, so long as it does not harm others, we have no right to interfere in somebody else's personal life. How, the argument goes, can we blame homosexuals for possessing the very tendencies they were born with? After all, they have no say in the matter. Why should they be made to suffer for that which they have no freedom over? And what is so bad about it anyways?

This, though, is not the Torah opinion. Torah ethics considers such behavioral tendencies the sickest of evils. This is an immoral and repugnant phenomenon which both the individual and society must go to war with.
In the same manner that an individual must struggle not to covet the belongings of his neighbor - a sickness known as kleptomania - one must do battle with the homosexual urge: through education and law; and if that does not work, through psychological and psychiatric care. If there are certain individuals who have been born with such a strong homosexual drive that they are unable to overcome it, then this is very painful and their plight certainly awakens pity, but the fact that they are unable to overcome these desires does not rectify such behavior. This is a severe mental illness. It is a perversion of the healthy human sex drive which makes reproduction and continued life a possibility. Yes, homosexuality and lesbianism pervert the healthy sex drive, and cause life forces to be wasted. The greatest joy of all - the ability to procreate and perpetuate ones life for generations - is lost. Therefore, no legitimacy is to be given to this warped tendency. It must be treated by psychiatrists and psychologists. "All of Israel," say the sages, "are responsible for one another," and just as the community reserves the right and obligation to prevent a person from harming others, so society has the obligation to help a person not to harm himself physically or spiritually.

In summary, according to the Torah, homosexuality is a severe offense. This sort of behavior is a serious illness which must be fought against, and, generally, those who are determined and receive support succeed in overcoming this drive and manage to lead healthy married lives.

http://www.yeshiva.org.il/midrash/shiur.asp?id=1639

 

[listopencil]

"...the community reserves the right and obligation to prevent a person from harming others, so society has the obligation to help a person not to harm himself physically or spiritually."



That is exactly what makes this country so great. It was founded on the idea that its citizens should be free of religious persecution like this.

 

[listopencil]

When someone advocates a vigorous campaign of re-education without any real merit, or claims religious beliefs as an excuse for such a campaign, I'm always reminded of this quote:


"In Germany they first came for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up."

--Pastor Martin Niemoller.

 

[007]

When someone advocates a vigorous campaign of re-education without any real merit,

Without any real MERIT? Are you kidding? Obviously you haven't researched before you espoused that. There's volumes upon volumes of information and fact that supports how dangerous and destructive the homosexaul lifestyle is.

Now please don't ask me to provide the links. They're there. Now the initiative is your's to look.

 

[listopencil]

Now please don't ask me to provide the links. They're there. Now the initiative is your's to look.

Typical blowhard move. "I'm so sure of what I say that I don't have to provide any corroborating viewpoints from qualified individuals."

Why don't you try explaining what the merit is in invading someone else's privacy and attemtping to brainwash them out of their alternative belief system. I'm not saying that this type of action is never justified, I want you to justify in this case. I don't think you can. I think you are so self-centered that you just can't stand that some people are getting away with bahavoir that you find extremely objectionable. Go ahead. I await your justification.

 

[dilloduck]

I'd be interested in a discussion of homosexuality that is devoid of religion and the the word "natural".

 

[Hobbit]

I'd be interested in a discussion of homosexuality that is devoid of religion and the the word "natural".

Yeah, my primary reason for being against it is religious, but I've never known God to do anything without a reason, so I did some research, and have found that statistically, practicing homosexuals are more promiscuous, less likely to engage in long term relationships, engage in more risky behavior, are more likely to spread STDs, and are more likely to molest children. As such, I tend to use these in my arguments, rather than religion or the word 'natural.' After all, my religion says to be in church on Sunday, but I wouldn't force anybody, and animals follow pure, 'natural' instinct, and they crap everywhere and have sex with everything they see.

 

[dilloduck]

Yeah, my primary reason for being against it is religious, but I've never known God to do anything without a reason, so I did some research, and have found that statistically, practicing homosexuals are more promiscuous, less likely to engage in long term relationships, engage in more risky behavior, are more likely to spread STDs, and are more likely to molest children. As such, I tend to use these in my arguments, rather than religion or the word 'natural.' After all, my religion says to be in church on Sunday, but I wouldn't force anybody, and animals follow pure, 'natural' instinct, and they crap everywhere and have sex with everything they see.

So we have a group of people who for whatever reason have preferences that go against the majority, against religions, against what some claim as "natural. They have long been in the shadows and claim oppression once thier preferences were exposed to the light of day. The oppression in the form of words and deeds has indeed occured to the point of murder. Now their cuase feeds on intolerance and angers them to the point of pushing thier agenda even further. They have gained sympathy from the bleeding hearts of the world who defend terrorism as the actions of oppressed people.

Are anti-homosexuals following a course of action that will stop the negative effects that the homosexual lifestyle promotes or is it merely providing homosexuals with tools to use to gather further sympathy for thier ever growing agenda?

 

[archangel]

Not...the 'people' have spoken at the box office and in the vote...gay marriage is a dead issue...so why don't they just go back to the sandbox...and do what they always have...'Ultimate masturbation' can we move on and away from this boring issue? :coffee3:

 

[dilloduck]

Not...the 'people' have spoken at the box office and in the vote...gay marriage is a dead issue...so why don't they just go back to the sandbox...and do what they always have...'Ultimate masturbation' can we move on and away from this boring issue? :coffee3:

Because people can't just ignore them and let them fizzle out by themselves.

 

[archangel]

Because people can't just ignore them and let them fizzle out by themselves.

however this issue has been debated and tested for centuries..and the end result is always the same..they(homosexuals) always lose...as it should be!...I think we are safe from this attack on family values for at least another century...that is if we don't blow our-selves to Kingdom Come...!
:teeth: (pun)

 

[dilloduck]

however this issue has been debated and tested for centuries..and the end result is always the same..they(homosexuals) always lose...as it should be!...I think we are safe from this attack on family values for at least another century...that is if we don't blow our-selves to Kingdom Come...!
:teeth: (pun)

Debated? Possibly but recently the attacks and counter-attacks are giving homosexuals the prized status of "oppressed" in the eyes of many. Their baiting has been successful in making the bleeding hearts (who really don't give a damn) take up their cause for them. Sometimes ignoring behavior makes it disappear quicker than anything.

 

[archangel]

Debated? Possibly but recently the attacks and counter-attacks are giving homosexuals the prized status of "oppressed" in the eyes of many. Their baiting has been successful in making the bleeding hearts (who really don't give a damn) take up their cause for them. Sometimes ignoring behavior makes it disappear quicker than anything.

again...I truly believe the box office and voters made it very clear as to their "Oppressed" status...to continue debating this issue only serves to give them perceived credibility...IMO!

 

[dilloduck]

again...I truly believe the box office and voters made it very clear as to their "Oppressed" status...to continue debating this issue only serves to give them perceived credibility...IMO!

Right---ignoring them rather than actively hating them.

 

[archangel]

Right---ignoring them rather than actively hating them.

agreement I bid adue to this thread,before it degenerates into a sandbox free-for-all and demise!

 

[listopencil]

Right---ignoring them rather than actively hating them.

This seems to be the way to go. It's part of my "live and let live" philosophy of life in general. If they aren't hurting anyone or doing something to someone against their will, ignore them. Let them do whatever they want to do to each other-it's not really anyone else's business anyway. I just have a problem with someone advocating a sort of re-education to convert them to heterosexuality. Smells like fascism to me.

 

[007]

Typical blowhard move. "I'm so sure of what I say that I don't have to provide any corroborating viewpoints from qualified individuals."

Why don't you try explaining what the merit is in invading someone else's privacy and attemtping to brainwash them out of their alternative belief system. I'm not saying that this type of action is never justified, I want you to justify in this case. I don't think you can. I think you are so self-centered that you just can't stand that some people are getting away with bahavoir that you find extremely objectionable. Go ahead. I await your justification.

You see... I've been acused of being a "lose canon", and "hot tempered" on this board. But I'm going to PM several mods and let them take a look at what just happened here.

I replied to you in a calm and respectful manner. You replied with sass and bullshit calling me a "blowhard", and "self centered". You don't want a bebate, you just want to SHOUT DOWN the conservative that thinks queers are sick in the head, and that homosexuality is a destructive choice.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

So we have a group of people who for whatever reason have preferences that go against the majority, against religions, against what some claim as "natural. They have long been in the shadows and claim oppression once thier preferences were exposed to the light of day. The oppression in the form of words and deeds has indeed occured to the point of murder. Now their cuase feeds on intolerance and angers them to the point of pushing thier agenda even further. They have gained sympathy from the bleeding hearts of the world who defend terrorism as the actions of oppressed people.

Are anti-homosexuals following a course of action that will stop the negative effects that the homosexual lifestyle promotes or is it merely providing homosexuals with tools to use to gather further sympathy for thier ever growing agenda?

Its really quite simple.
Homosexuals used to be persecuted.
In time our society evolved to recognize that persecution was wrong.
We arrived at the point where we accepted their behavior and would leave them alone from harrasment.
They are now attempting to abuse the freedoms they have achieved and want their radical agenda shoved down everyones throats. They no longer merely want to be accepted, but they want homosexuality to be recognized as "on par" with heterosexuality.

Fact. Homosexual lifestyle is much more destructive than a heterosexual one.
Fact. If govt endorses anything, it becomes more prevelant.
Fact. A majority of homosexuals had their first encounters by an ADULT who seduced them as minors.

Fact. Is there anyone ANYONE here who can honestly raise their hand and claim, if they had a young man as their son, they couldnt care less if he came home with a man or a woman as his "wife"?

Fact. If the male sexual organ does not respond to a naked female body (halle barry for example) then "something" IS WRONG.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

This seems to be the way to go. It's part of my "live and let live" philosophy of life in general. If they aren't hurting anyone or doing something to someone against their will, ignore them. Let them do whatever they want to do to each other-it's not really anyone else's business anyway. I just have a problem with someone advocating a sort of re-education to convert them to heterosexuality. Smells like fascism to me.

why not let them have that choice. I have heard many guys on the radio profess they have changed and they are extremely happy for it. We dont advocate FORCING it on anyone, just having it available. But the RADICAL homosexual agenda is trying to eliminate it altogether, calling it lies and deceit. They dont even recognize those guys as heterosexuals. They say their transformation isnt real, they are just lying to themselves. Tallk about bigots. Its firmly rooted in the democratic party.

 

[archangel]

This seems to be the way to go. It's part of my "live and let live" philosophy of life in general. If they aren't hurting anyone or doing something to someone against their will, ignore them. Let them do whatever they want to do to each other-it's not really anyone else's business anyway. I just have a problem with someone advocating a sort of re-education to convert them to heterosexuality. Smells like fascism to me.

this is where ya go amiss...the 'normal' population has no problem with 'immature' sexual deviates doing whatever to whom (whatever) as long as it is consenting adults doing this in the privacy of their own 'bedroom' what the 'general' normal population have a problem with is this being done in public...as in 'Disneyland' and pushing "Gay"(perverted) marriage down our collective throats...Homosexuality is nothing more than immature sexual relations...ie:'ultimate masturbation' not worthy of marriage vows...end of story....has been tried many times in history with negative results...ie:the Roman and Greek empires...geez....get a grip...
***sneaks out***