Homosexual Birth Myths

[007]

Originally posted by mattskramer

Quite simply matts, I was pointing out to you how God felt about queers, since you weren't sure. Now you can take the rest as you please. I don't care.

This conversation has gone on to the point of rediculousness. It is PAINFULLY obvious at this point, that you think it's OK for queers to get married, and that I don't. And I'm not going to convince you any different, and you're not going to convince me any different. We both dismiss opposing arguement as irrelevant, because we both have our engrained beliefs. I for one will NOT argue with you ANY LONGER about queers or them getting married.

I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD, YOU DO. I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG. PERIOD. DONE. OVER.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by mattskramer
1. What is the 7th Commandment?

I'm an agnostic. I don't know and I don't care and it does not matter to me. You are the one quoting select Bible passages as though they should be applied to all citizens. My point is that you should be consistent. If you argue that homosexuality should be outlawed because, based your interpretation of the translation and version of the Bible that you have, God opposes it, then it is only fair to apply all Biblical instruction as US law. Anyway, based on my brief search of the Internet, I think that it says that "'You shall not commit adultery."

Fine. You want to get dumb? Here we go. If taken IN CONTEXT, no "interpretation" is necessary. All of your education, and you MUST have learned that someplace, I would think.

Taking the Bible IN CONTEXT makes the use of the 10 Commandments applicable to all, and all other Old Testament law moot. -NO MATTER WHICH VERSION YOU GET --IF it is based in the original Textus Receptus or corresponds completely with original Greek and Hebrew.

-And throw the man a fish, he got the Commandment.

"Thou shalt not commit adultery."

2. Who is allowed to marry under Jewish law?

I am not a Jew. I do not follow Jewish law in and of itself. I don't know who is allowed to marry under Jewish law. The real question is "Who is allowed to marry under US law?"

NO. You wanted this to be a debate on Biblical context, and applying the law everywhere, and now you get it.

Jewish law was insistant upon 1 man and 1 woman being able to marry. THAT WAS ALL.

When applying the above Commandment, you have all else being adultery and therefore illegal and unBiblical.

3. Why do you persist?

Because you still have not answered my question. Have you cut your hair? If so, what should be your punishment under Biblical law?

Since that was Old Testament, and also conditional upon where and when you lived, that no longer applies. -AS IN CONTEXT. Since you like to play the "scramble the Bible verses game", I have to keep you on track.

Since the Commandment about adultery stands, homosexuality IS adultery.

Cutting my hair has nothing to do with Commandments.

Now it may be your secret belief that Leviticus 20:13 is good (You like that rule.) but you would prefer not to have Leviticus 19:27 and Leviticus 20:9. You can't logically have it both ways. If you apply the book of Leviticus to your argument, it is just to apply the whole book.

Actually, 20:13 Is simply a great reference to the Commandments as it is clarification. People like you try to claim the Commandments vague, so clarification IN CONTEXT is NECESSARY as I have done and proven in this entire post.

When people don't want to accept fact, they deny and pretend they are blind to it. This is human nature.

Human nature becomes like a neon sign when someone is presented in-context information and they have no leg to stand on, yet insist they are right.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Taking the Bible IN CONTEXT makes the use of the 10 Commandments applicable to all, and all other Old Testament law moot. ... Since that was Old Testament, and also conditional upon where and when you lived, that no longer applies..

The 10 Commandments is in the Old Testament. Yet you say that the Old Testament doesn't apply. Yet you say that the "10 Commandments" applies. Again, you are being very selective.

One of the "10 Commandments" says to keep the Sabbath holy. Am I obligated to do that? Should that be a law in the USA too or can we reduce the "10 Commandments" to "9 Commandments" for the sake of applying them as US laws?

If you say that the Old testament is moot, then it is not fair for you to quote from the Old Testament. Hmmm. ALL of the Old Testament is moot. I wonder what the Jews think of that.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by mattskramer

The 10 Commandments is in the Old Testament. Yet you say that the Old Testament doesn't apply. Yet you say that the "10 Commandments" applies. Again, you are being very selective.

No. I said very clearly the 10 Commandments applies to all. The Bible says that, not me. The Bible ALSO says that Old Testament law is fulfilled by Christ -who also personally said we are to keep the Commandments, yet He fulfilled the rest of the law. The Commandments do not bring salvation, however.

I am not being selective, you aren't paying attention.

One of the "10 Commandments" says to keep the Sabbath holy. Am I obligated to do that?

The Bible says you are. Christ says you are. The Commandment says you are. Whay are you asking ME?

Should that be a law in the USA too or can we reduce the "10 Commandments" to "9 Commandments" for the sake of applying them as US laws?

What are you talking about? The Constitution clearly dictates no law can state a mandated policy of such. That does NOT however, absolve your duty before God. Which would YOU think the higher authority, matt? The Creator of all, or the created?

If you say that the Old testament is moot, then it is not fair for you to quote from the Old Testament.

Correct. Since I didn't say that, your point is invalid.

Hmmm. ALL of the Old Testament is moot. I wonder what the Jews think of that.

Who cares? I didn't say ALL of it was moot, I said the LAW except for the COMMANDMENTS was moot. You don't have a long attention span.

The Bible also declaires the Jews to be fooled by the antichrist into believing he is Jesus returning. That is why they will be fooled- they do not believe in the New Testament. (unless they are born again).

 

[mattskramer]

Allow me to summarize and simplify my point:

(1) One of your reasons for keeping homosexual marriage illegal is that God, based on Bible scripture, does not approve of homosexual marriage - Yes or NO?

If "Yes" then you are advocating the creation of secular law based on the Bible. To be fair, you can't pick and choose which Biblical instructions to apply (and which ones to leave out) as secular law to all American citizens (Christians as well as non-Christians). There are many instructions (in the New Testament and well as in the Old Testament) that I doubt that you would want as law in the USA. If such is the case then the argument that homosexuality should be outlawed because God, according to the Bible, opposes it falls flat.

(2) Do you support creating secular law based on the "10 Commandments"?

If "Yes" then to be intellectually honest and consistent we must have a law mandating that all people observe the Sabbath and keep it holy.

That is as simply as I can explain it.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by mattskramer
Allow me to summarize and simplify my point:

(1) One of your reasons for keeping homosexual marriage illegal is that God, based on Bible scripture, does not approve of homosexual marriage - Yes or NO?

No.

The Bible clearly condems it as sinful behavior no matter how you slice it.
The Bible clearly condemns ALL sin the same way and equally.

In our ultimate biggest most important decision we could ever make--to accept Christ or not, WE STILL HAVE FREE WILL TO CHOOSE.

America was founded upon the Bible's concepts of ethics. As such, we are given freedom of choice as dictated by the Constitution and Bill Of Rights.

The concept of marriage is Constitutionally illegal IF AND ONLY IF recognized as an official ANYTHING by government which gives any benefit BY GOVERNMENT to the marriage couple. In other words, government has no place in marriage benefits. It descriminates against the men and women who remain single and try to make it through life that way.

Also, Biblically, Christians are called to condemn the practice of sin where found. We are to be living examples of Godly behavior, not make others be so. It is their choice to do wrong or right, although they may never hear the end of it so to speak.

As such, government by nature of the Constitution should not be involved in marriage, gay marriage should not be recognized, and marriage should REALLY only be a partnership between two people as recognized for no benefit whatsoever by government.

Biblically, it is clearly defined what is a proper marriage. Therefore a gay marriage may get flak, but Constitutionally, is irrelevant.

Realistically, if marriage went the way I describe it should, nobody gay would even GET married, because those people would not be able to push anything in anyones face, or gain financially, and the whole thing would be useless to them.

If "Yes" then you are advocating the creation of secular law based on the Bible. To be fair, you can't pick and choose which Biblical instructions to apply (and which ones to leave out) as secular law to all American citizens (Christians as well as non-Christians).

I agree totally.

There are many instructions (in the New Testament and well as in the Old Testament) that I doubt that you would want as law in the USA.

What I want is irrelevant. Again, it is personal choice as backed by the Constitution. The law cannot contradict the Bible or Constitution and still bind Christians anyway.

If such is the case then the argument that homosexuality should be outlawed because God, according to the Bible, opposes it falls flat.

I agree entirely.

(2) Do you support creating secular law based on the "10 Commandments"?

Absolutely not. This invalidates the choice the Constitution gives, and it invalidates the personal nature of the Christian faith as described above. It also invalidates the Ammendments regarding religion. It would be unconstitutional.

If "Yes" then to be intellectually honest and consistent we must have a law mandating that all people observe the Sabbath and keep it holy.

True. -But while not law, it is still God's command to do. Christians are bound to do it as commanded, but it is not a requirement for salvation. It is a command as how we should conduct ourselves.

That is as simply as I can explain it.

Perfect. I am a simple kind of guy.