Holy F&CK Batman this generation is a MESS

[Unkotare]

I just hate it when people complain about education but have no suggestions whatever for how to fix it.

This is me raising my hand furiously...

Fixing education is easy. ....

Never easy.

 

[OldLady]

I just hate it when people complain about education but have no suggestions whatever for how to fix it.

This is me raising my hand furiously...

Fixing education is easy. Get the government out of the education business.

Now, I'm not saying states shouldn't redistribute wealth in order for poor people to get an education, but the government should not RUN the schools, from determining what's in the text books to how many tater tots are served at lunch. It's an unholy alliance between local, state and federal governments that ensures there is little competition and no consequences for failing to meet the expectations of the the school's customers, parents.

The USA consistently spends more on K-12 education than just about any other country and we spend more and more every year...yet the results get worse. Any rational market wouldn't last long with that kind of inefficiency and poor performance. Only a government monopoly on affordable education gets you that kind of crappy result.

You want to fix education, end the monopoly and allow competition to thrive. There you go, fixed.

I don't know that government is dictating the curriculum. Common Core standards are just a consistent list of what a student should know/be able to do prior to graduating high school; no particular texts are suggested or required.

I don't know why education is costing more every year. I think the reason it is not producing the outcomes we would like is because the curriculum needs to be shaken out from the bottom to the top. Education is about as hidebound as any discipline anywhere. And because the government learned that, indeed, level of education is the best indicator of financial success in life, the government got it in their heads that everyone should receive an academic college-bound education and that they should all go to college. Well, that's not anywhere near an achievable or realistic goal. I work with students who are IN college who don't have a clue how to work with fractions or decimals, for Gods sake. Why are these kids getting in to college? What do we expect they will achieve?

It is absolutely necessary to dumb down the curriculum when every student is expected to have the same level of academic competence. Some people are a hell of a lot better at figuring out a motor or how to cook an outstanding dish for 200 people than they are at memorizing the list of ongoing wars in Modern Western Civ. They deserve education that fits a reasonable goal that fits with their interests.

 

[Old Rocks]

I just hate it when people complain about education but have no suggestions whatever for how to fix it.

This is me raising my hand furiously...

Fixing education is easy. Get the government out of the education business.

Now, I'm not saying states shouldn't redistribute wealth in order for poor people to get an education, but the government should not RUN the schools, from determining what's in the text books to how many tater tots are served at lunch. It's an unholy alliance between local, state and federal governments that ensures there is little competition and no consequences for failing to meet the expectations of the the school's customers, parents.

The USA consistently spends more on K-12 education than just about any other country and we spend more and more every year...yet the results get worse. Any rational market wouldn't last long with that kind of inefficiency and poor performance. Only a government monopoly on affordable education gets you that kind of crappy result.

You want to fix education, end the monopoly and allow competition to thrive. There you go, fixed.

Now what the hell do you mean, end the monopoly? There are many accredited private schools that you can send your children to. And some of them have very high academic standards. Problem is, have you prepared your child for those standards? And do you have the ability to pay for such a school?

 

[Old Rocks]

I just hate it when people complain about education but have no suggestions whatever for how to fix it.

This is me raising my hand furiously...

Fixing education is easy. Get the government out of the education business.

Now, I'm not saying states shouldn't redistribute wealth in order for poor people to get an education, but the government should not RUN the schools, from determining what's in the text books to how many tater tots are served at lunch. It's an unholy alliance between local, state and federal governments that ensures there is little competition and no consequences for failing to meet the expectations of the the school's customers, parents.

The USA consistently spends more on K-12 education than just about any other country and we spend more and more every year...yet the results get worse. Any rational market wouldn't last long with that kind of inefficiency and poor performance. Only a government monopoly on affordable education gets you that kind of crappy result.

You want to fix education, end the monopoly and allow competition to thrive. There you go, fixed.

I don't know that government is dictating the curriculum. Common Core standards are just a consistent list of what a student should know/be able to do prior to graduating high school; no particular texts are suggested or required.

I don't know why education is costing more every year. I think the reason it is not producing the outcomes we would like is because the curriculum needs to be shaken out from the bottom to the top. Education is about as hidebound as any discipline anywhere. And because the government learned that, indeed, level of education is the best indicator of financial success in life, the government got it in their heads that everyone should receive an academic college-bound education and that they should all go to college. Well, that's not anywhere near an achievable or realistic goal. I work with students who are IN college who don't have a clue how to work with fractions or decimals, for Gods sake. Why are these kids getting in to college? What do we expect they will achieve?

It is absolutely necessary to dumb down the curriculum when every student is expected to have the same level of academic competence. Some people are a hell of a lot better at figuring out a motor or how to cook an outstanding dish for 200 people than they are at memorizing the list of ongoing wars in Modern Western Civ. They deserve education that fits a reasonable goal that fits with their interests.

A number of other nations have schools with different tracks in them. After the first few grade, you can pretty well pick out those with academic abilities, those with mechanical, and those that only will be able to do menial work. And they are put in tracks according to their ability. So the future mechanic, by the time he is in high school is learning crafts, the academic is learning accelerated science, history, ect., and the person that does not have these abilities is being taught basic life skills.

It seems to work well in those nations, and results in a lot less stress for the students and the teachers.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Really? You are an airplane Mechanic, and you make only a third that a teacher does? What the hell kind of airplanes do you work on? Models?

I am a millwright and I make more than most teachers that I know, and that included many college professors.

As far as how the kids today compare to the kids of yesterday, when I was in high school, '58 to '62, exactly the same things were being said of the students of that time.

No, I'm currently not EMPLOYED as an airplane mechanic. I'm a licensed mechanic, whether or not I'm working at the time as one doesn't change my status. I never said airplane mechanics make less than teachers, in fact ibut I know for a fact that they do. I was offered a job as airline mechanic at 18 dollars an hour to start. My sister started out as a teacher making over 25 dollars an hour equivalent (50,000 a year salary).

So yea, teachers do make more than airplane mechanics. But that's not what I said, so nice job of putting words in my mouth and then basing your reply on that.

 

[Old Rocks]

$18 Hr. Our Apprentices make more than that.

 

[Unkotare]

Really? You are an airplane Mechanic, and you make only a third that a teacher does? What the hell kind of airplanes do you work on? Models?

I am a millwright and I make more than most teachers that I know, and that included many college professors.

As far as how the kids today compare to the kids of yesterday, when I was in high school, '58 to '62, exactly the same things were being said of the students of that time.

No, I'm currently not EMPLOYED as an airplane mechanic. I'm a licensed mechanic, whether or not I'm working at the time as one doesn't change my status. I never said airplane mechanics make less than teachers, in fact ibut I know for a fact that they do. I was offered a job as airline mechanic at 18 dollars an hour to start. My sister started out as a teacher making over 25 dollars an hour equivalent (50,000 a year salary).

So yea, teachers do make more than airplane mechanics. But that's not what I said, so nice job of putting words in my mouth and then basing your reply on that.

Didn't you say you were unemployed several years ago?

 

[eflatminor]

They deserve education that fits a reasonable goal that fits with their interests.

Agreed. And in my opinion, only in a free market for education, with customers that have choice, where poor performance is met with consequences, can that happen.

 

[Unkotare]

They deserve education that fits a reasonable goal that fits with their interests.

Agreed. And in my opinion, only in a free market for education, with customers that have choice, where poor performance is met with consequences, can that happen.

As it stands, you have to reconcile that with the reality of compulsory education.

 

[eflatminor]

I just hate it when people complain about education but have no suggestions whatever for how to fix it.

This is me raising my hand furiously...

Fixing education is easy. Get the government out of the education business.

Now, I'm not saying states shouldn't redistribute wealth in order for poor people to get an education, but the government should not RUN the schools, from determining what's in the text books to how many tater tots are served at lunch. It's an unholy alliance between local, state and federal governments that ensures there is little competition and no consequences for failing to meet the expectations of the the school's customers, parents.

The USA consistently spends more on K-12 education than just about any other country and we spend more and more every year...yet the results get worse. Any rational market wouldn't last long with that kind of inefficiency and poor performance. Only a government monopoly on affordable education gets you that kind of crappy result.

You want to fix education, end the monopoly and allow competition to thrive. There you go, fixed.

Now what the hell do you mean, end the monopoly? There are many accredited private schools that you can send your children to. And some of them have very high academic standards. Problem is, have you prepared your child for those standards? And do you have the ability to pay for such a school?

Re-read what I wrote. I stated the monopoly is on "affordable" education. You are of course correct that there are many choices for private education for wealthy families. I'm speaking of an education market for ALL consumers.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Yea, old rocks seems to have a habit of reading into thread replies what he wants to. He seems to see things that aren't there.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

Working in a High School (9-12) you really see how quickly things are going to shit in this country. The homes are a mess, parents don't know what the fuck they are doing, the kids can't deal with anything, drug use is getting worse, they have no respect, and they are getting DUMBER.

Seriously, this country is in trouble.

Talk to someone who works in a school, preferably an administrator (teachers get a piece of the picture but not the whole of how bad it is).

Maybe television and Internet are guilty for that.
Even the global culture we have almost everywhere these day imbued with materialism and hedonism is not very good.
Ancient Indian and Chinese culture say we are in the "kali yuga" the last of the fourth stages the world goes through the worst one to be honest.
Who knows? Maybe it's true and that's why all the things are going bad in the world!

Cell phones and technology overall are a big part of the problem. The kids are soooo attached to their phones and never unplug. Not healthy.