Hoffman = Man of HF - Elected but I still say not deserving.

[ShootSpeeders]

Trevor got 80% but guys who play 70 innings a year don't belong in the Hall.

Chipper, Vlad among 4 elected to Cooperstown

Bonds and clemens didn't come close once again.

Chipper, thome, and vlad made it and they got that right anyway.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Curt Schilling didn't come close at 51%. The voters hate him since he's a conservative while they are liberal white-hating racists.

 

[MarathonMike]

I agree with you about Curt Schilling. He was a key starter for both my Diamondbacks in the 2001 WS and for Boston's first WS. He should be a shoo-in. You have a point about closers in general but Hoffman had an 18 year career and was one of the best all time out of the bullpen. He's missing World Series experience but that's luck of the draw.

 

[mhansen2]

Trevor got 80% but guys who play 70 innings a year don't belong in the Hall.

Chipper Jones, Jim Thome head new Baseball Hall of Fame class

"Hoffman, who fell five votes short of the mark last year, received 79.9 percent of the vote to become just the sixth Hall of Fame pitcher who was primarily a reliever, joining Hoyt Wilhelm (1985), Rollie Fingers (1992), Dennis Eckersley (2004), Bruce Sutter (2006) and Goose Gossage (2008)."

Do you think these other relievers belong in the Hall of Fame? If so, why not Hoffman?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

"Hoffman, who fell five votes short of the mark last year, received 79.9 percent of the vote to become just the sixth Hall of Fame pitcher who was primarily a reliever, joining Hoyt Wilhelm (1985), Rollie Fingers (1992), Dennis Eckersley (2004), Bruce Sutter (2006) and Goose Gossage (2008)."

Do you think these other relievers belong in the Hall of Fame? If so, why not Hoffman?

Eck spent half his career as a starter. Hoyt was a borderline choice for the Hall. The other 3 i say no. The only RP that should make the hall of fame is the great emar.

RPs just don't pitch enough. Sutter's "career" was a 1000 innings!! That's just 2/3 of one season for a position player.

 

[Tom Horn]

I agree somewhat but all of baseball agrees that the 9th inning is the toughest inning to pitch. The game has to be close or the closer wouldn't be called upon. Most closers have two pitches while a starter needs three. And the superiority of starting pitching is that he has to get the sames guys out three, maybe four times. To illustrate how silly it is for the baseball writers to pick HOF members, Jack Morris had to be voted in by the "modern era" committee. Morris won more games than any pitcher in the 80's and owns three World Series rings from three different teams. But he didn't like baseball writers and they didn't like him. Jack "The Count" Morris was one of the orneriest bastards ever to stand on the bump. He often mocked and swore at hitters and was generally mad at the world on the days he pitched. His ERA was higher than it could have been if he'd allowed managers to take him out in the late innings. He often told Sparky Anderson to get his ass back in the dugout when Capt.Hook came out after him. Jack was one of a kind, with a splitter that Vin Scully once called the most devastating pitch he'd ever seen. But all's well that ends well, and Jack and his SS, Alan Trammell are both going to Cooperstown where they both belong.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

jack "The Count" Morris was one of the orneriest bastards ever to stand on the bump. He often mocked and swore at hitters and was generally mad at the world on the days he pitched. His ERA was higher than it could have been if he'd allowed managers to take him out in the late innings.

Is that good strategy? Letting a pitcher stay in the game as long as he wants? Are complete games that important? Nowadays most teams say hell with CGs.

 

[Tom Horn]

jack "The Count" Morris was one of the orneriest bastards ever to stand on the bump. He often mocked and swore at hitters and was generally mad at the world on the days he pitched. His ERA was higher than it could have been if he'd allowed managers to take him out in the late innings.

Is that good strategy? Letting a pitcher stay in the game as long as he wants? Are complete games that important? Nowadays most teams say hell with CGs.

The point is Morris wanted the win and didn't give a crap about his ERA, which was later used against him. The game has changed...now stud pitchers pitch 200 innings a year instead of 260-300 and complete games are a thing of the past. But you argue against your OP by diminishing the role of relievers.....you can't have it both ways.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

The point is Morris wanted the win and didn't give a crap about his ERA, which was later used against him. The game has changed...now stud pitchers pitch 200 innings a year instead of 260-300 and complete games are a thing of the past. But you argue against your OP by diminishing the role of relievers.....you can't have it both ways.

You don't understand. It's about the individual RP versus the collective RP. If i was a manager i would make all my pitchers RPs and expect them to pitch just 2-3 innings each outing and maybe 100 innings a year. That would give me a dynamite pitching STAFF but each individual pitcher would not be that important.

 

[Tom Horn]

You don't understand. It's about the individual RP versus the collective RP. If i was a manager i would make all my pitchers RPs and expect them to pitch just 2-3 innings each outing and maybe 100 innings a year. That would give me a dynamite pitching STAFF but each individual pitcher would not be that important.

No, it would give you a pitching staff on the DL and call-ups from your AAA club headed in the same direction. Each of your pitchers would be warming up more than pitching and they'd be so "short" in conditioning you'd be the laughing stock of the League. A 162 game season equals about 1,500 innings including extra innings games....are you going to have a 15 man pitching staff?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

No, it would give you a pitching staff on the DL and call-ups from your AAA club headed in the same direction. Each of your pitchers would be warming up more than pitching and they'd be so "short" in conditioning you'd be the laughing stock of the League. A 162 game season equals about 1,500 innings including extra innings games....are you going to have a 15 man pitching staff?

Warming up more than pitching??? I never said that and don't know where you got the idea. I'd have say 3 pitchers scheduled for each game and a 5 game rotation.

And yes - a 15 man pitching staff.

 

[Tom Horn]

Warming up more than pitching??? I never said that and don't know where you got the idea. I'd have say 3 pitchers scheduled for each game and a 5 game rotation.

And yes - a 15 man pitching staff.

No, I said they'd be warming up more than pitching...in the bullpen and between innings....that's the consequences of your scheme. Since there are only 25 guys on a major league roster, you're only leaving 10 position players???? One spare catcher and one infielder and one extra outfielder? You'd never get through the opening series in April doing that.....okay, this is a joke right?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

No, I said they'd be warming up more than pitching...in the bullpen and between innings....that's the consequences of your scheme. Since there are only 25 guys on a major league roster, you're only leaving 10 position players???? One spare catcher and one infielder and one extra outfielder? You'd never get through the opening series in April doing that.....okay, this is a joke right?

Pitchers should be trained at other positions. On their off days insist they take batting practice and fielding practice (without much throwing). Then they can fill in when someone gets injured. For the last 100 years pitchers have been expected to pitch and nothing else!! I always thought that was stupid but maybe it made sense when starters threw 300 innings a year. We are entering a period when starters do half that!!

Make the lazy bums earn their 15 mill a year.

 

[Tom Horn]

No, I said they'd be warming up more than pitching...in the bullpen and between innings....that's the consequences of your scheme. Since there are only 25 guys on a major league roster, you're only leaving 10 position players???? One spare catcher and one infielder and one extra outfielder? You'd never get through the opening series in April doing that.....okay, this is a joke right?

Pitchers should be trained at other positions. On their off days insist they take batting practice and fielding practice (without much throwing). Then they can fill in when someone gets injured. For the last 100 years pitchers have been expected to pitch and nothing else!! I always thought that was stupid but maybe it made sense when starters threw 300 innings a year We are entering a period when starters do half that!!

Make the lazy bums earn their 15 mill a year.

Okay, I'll agree with that. Most pitchers were the best athletes and hitters on their teams growing up so I see no reason they couldn't pinch hit or play OF on occasion. Still, you don't want more than 11 pitchers with 5 starters and 6 relievers....these teams are billion dollar enterprises and they know what they're doing.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Okay, I'll agree with that. Most pitchers were the best athletes and hitters on their teams growing up so I see no reason they couldn't pinch hit or play OF on occasion. Still, you don't want more than 11 pitchers with 5 starters and 6 relievers....these teams are billion dollar enterprises and they know what they're doing.

Know what they're doing??? HAHAHA.. Up to 20 years ago baseball still thought BA was the most important hitting stat!! MLB has always been run by idiots.

 

[Tom Horn]

[

Okay, I'll agree with that. Most pitchers were the best athletes and hitters on their teams growing up so I see no reason they couldn't pinch hit or play OF on occasion. Still, you don't want more than 11 pitchers with 5 starters and 6 relievers....these teams are billion dollar enterprises and they know what they're doing.

Know what they're doing??? HAHAHA.. Up to 20 years ago baseball still thought BA was the most important hitting stat!! MLB has always been run by idiots.

By the same token, baseball FANS have always been idiots thinking they knew better than the guys who run the business. But the fundamentals don't change and neither do the basic practices no matter who gets hired. If you're so sure you're smarter than those guys why don't you apply for a front office job and run your ideas past a GM?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

If you're so sure you're smarter than those guys why don't you apply for a front office job and run your ideas past a GM?

Sports is just stupid useless entertainment. Being an entertainer is beneath me.