History of Abortion in the United States

[Winston]

Roe v. Wade is based on the 14th amendment. First, the due process clause and second, the right to privacy. This leaked opinion circumvents those two aspects of the 14th as they apply to abortion by making the preposterous claim that there was no historical record of a right to an abortion. First, at the time of the 14th amendment, and second, during the time the Constitution was written. In order for an unenumerated right to be protected under the 14th there must be some basis for that right under common law at the time of the nation's founding.

It is obvious, either they don't teach Early American History at the schools these justices attended, or they have a selective memory. Abortion was common in Colonial America. No, not a medical abortion, but a chemical one. There are, and were, specific herbal concoctions that induced an abortion. It was an accepted practice for more than two centuries as long as it happened before "Quickening", sometime during the second trimester. Actually, it was a right that was enshrined in common law at the time the Constitution was written. This "Quickening" was the time when the fetus starts moving around in the womb. And yes, any type of abortion, or even any act that terminated the pregnancy after that point was considered a misdemeanor, not a murder.

Prior to 1849 there were laws that prevented abortion. Abortions by black slaves were banned, but not for free people. Slaves were property, they had no control of their reproductive cycle, While many slaves secretly imbibed in those herbal concoctions, getting caught resulted in severe consequences. For all you right wingers that want to taut your parties legacy of eliminating slavery, understand where the foundation of laws against abortion originated.

But it gets better. In 1849 the AMA was founded. In Colonial America, at the founding, and even in the early 1800's, the vast majority of prenatal care was performed by midwives. Fully half of those midwives were black, many of them slaves. Another large percentage of those midwives were Native American, and damn near all of them were female. The AMA, a bunch of white men, came out strongly against the practice of abortion and lobbied hard for legislation banning the practice. Not because of any moral concerns, but because it was a means of wrestling control and power away from the minority and female dominated midwives. And take it from someone that has been right there through half a dozen births, a male white doctor has no place in a delivery room unless there are severe complications. The women of this nation suffered over a 150 years because of this AMA stance. And again, that is the legacy of anti-abortion legislation.

Look, we don't have a SCOTUS anymore. That dog don't hunt, it died long ago. The Trump appointees, of whom he is so proud, are little more than political operators disguised with a robe. Kavenaugh has been nothing but a political operator since day one, and Barrett is a religious zealot whose position as a SCOTUS judge would alarm every single founder to their core. They don't look at the Constitution. They don't give two shits about Stare Decisis. They look for a way to achieve their agenda. This selective recall of history, or perhaps more accurately, ignoring it, a glaring case in point.

Those of you that support this overturning of Roe v. Wade have to be suffering from a level of cognitive dissonance that no normal human being can process. I mean the same people that want to cry and scream about the government making them wear a mask, and God forbid, require an immunization, are the same ones that have no problem telling a woman she has to bring a pregnancy to term. I mean what it really boils down to is a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that don't have a problem telling other people what they should do, but go off the rails if you require them to do anything. You people disgust me. If you were on fire I wouldn't piss on you to put it out. And make no mistake about, you will never be considered part of the crowd that made America great. You will always be seen as the pieces of shit that drove this country out of it's position of world dominance and to the point of insignificance. While the rest of the world is striving forward you guys are busting your ass to take us back to the stone age. And all because you have zero empathy and can't see past the nose on your face.

 

[PinktheFloyd88]

The 14th Amendment came into fruition immediately in the aftermath of the Civil War. So the history of abortion is that it has been legal since 1866. There, I just shortened your post by about 5 paragraphs.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

Roe v. Wade is based on the 14th amendment. First, the due process clause and second, the right to privacy. This leaked opinion circumvents those two aspects of the 14th as they apply to abortion by making the preposterous claim that there was no historical record of a right to an abortion. First, at the time of the 14th amendment, and second, during the time the Constitution was written. In order for an unenumerated right to be protected under the 14th there must be some basis for that right under common law at the time of the nation's founding.

It is obvious, either they don't teach Early American History at the schools these justices attended, or they have a selective memory. Abortion was common in Colonial America. No, not a medical abortion, but a chemical one. There are, and were, specific herbal concoctions that induced an abortion. It was an accepted practice for more than two centuries as long as it happened before "Quickening", sometime during the second trimester. Actually, it was a right that was enshrined in common law at the time the Constitution was written. This "Quickening" was the time when the fetus starts moving around in the womb. And yes, any type of abortion, or even any act that terminated the pregnancy after that point was considered a misdemeanor, not a murder.

Prior to 1849 there were laws that prevented abortion. Abortions by black slaves were banned, but not for free people. Slaves were property, they had no control of their reproductive cycle, While many slaves secretly imbibed in those herbal concoctions, getting caught resulted in severe consequences. For all you right wingers that want to taut your parties legacy of eliminating slavery, understand where the foundation of laws against abortion originated.

But it gets better. In 1849 the AMA was founded. In Colonial America, at the founding, and even in the early 1800's, the vast majority of prenatal care was performed by midwives. Fully half of those midwives were black, many of them slaves. Another large percentage of those midwives were Native American, and damn near all of them were female. The AMA, a bunch of white men, came out strongly against the practice of abortion and lobbied hard for legislation banning the practice. Not because of any moral concerns, but because it was a means of wrestling control and power away from the minority and female dominated midwives. And take it from someone that has been right there through half a dozen births, a male white doctor has no place in a delivery room unless there are severe complications. The women of this nation suffered over a 150 years because of this AMA stance. And again, that is the legacy of anti-abortion legislation.

Look, we don't have a SCOTUS anymore. That dog don't hunt, it died long ago. The Trump appointees, of whom he is so proud, are little more than political operators disguised with a robe. Kavenaugh has been nothing but a political operator since day one, and Barrett is a religious zealot whose position as a SCOTUS judge would alarm every single founder to their core. They don't look at the Constitution. They don't give two shits about Stare Decisis. They look for a way to achieve their agenda. This selective recall of history, or perhaps more accurately, ignoring it, a glaring case in point.

Those of you that support this overturning of Roe v. Wade have to be suffering from a level of cognitive dissonance that no normal human being can process. I mean the same people that want to cry and scream about the government making them wear a mask, and God forbid, require an immunization, are the same ones that have no problem telling a woman she has to bring a pregnancy to term. I mean what it really boils down to is a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that don't have a problem telling other people what they should do, but go off the rails if you require them to do anything. You people disgust me. If you were on fire I wouldn't piss on you to put it out. And make no mistake about, you will never be considered part of the crowd that made America great. You will always be seen as the pieces of shit that drove this country out of it's position of world dominance and to the point of insignificance. While the rest of the world is striving forward you guys are busting your ass to take us back to the stone age. And all because you have zero empathy and can't see past the nose on your face.

Basically the rule of abortion in Colonial times was that once you show, it must grow. Back then a woman would take a potion that forced a miscarriage

Sad that every Woke idiot wasn't a miscarriage

 

[Winston]

The 14th Amendment came into fruition immediately in the aftermath of the Civil War. So the history of abortion is that it has been legal since 1866. There, I just shortened your post by about 5 paragraphs.

No, you are attempting to do what Roberts did in writing his opinion. You are ignoring the history of abortion in the United States. He wants to begin that history at the passing of the 14th. He absolutely ignores the position of the founders. I mean here is a thought, instead of wasting tax payer money on running the SCOTUS let's just turn all decisions over to the AMA, because in no small way, that is precisely what Roberts has done here.

I mean this is an act of judicial activism on an unprecedented scale. I mean Heller doesn't even come close, although it is another example of the right arm of the court having a selective memory when it comes to American history. Just know this, it is pretty telling that in this case judicial activism is being used to curtail rights, not expand them. That is a turning point in American history that will not go unnoticed.

 

[PinktheFloyd88]

He absolutely ignores the position of the founders.

The Founders were dead when the 14th Amendment was ratified. Nobody unearthed George Washington's carcass and asked him if it was okay.

 

[marvin martian]

Roe v. Wade is based on the 14th amendment. First, the due process clause and second, the right to privacy. This leaked opinion circumvents those two aspects of the 14th as they apply to abortion by making the preposterous claim that there was no historical record of a right to an abortion. First, at the time of the 14th amendment, and second, during the time the Constitution was written. In order for an unenumerated right to be protected under the 14th there must be some basis for that right under common law at the time of the nation's founding.

It is obvious, either they don't teach Early American History at the schools these justices attended, or they have a selective memory. Abortion was common in Colonial America. No, not a medical abortion, but a chemical one. There are, and were, specific herbal concoctions that induced an abortion. It was an accepted practice for more than two centuries as long as it happened before "Quickening", sometime during the second trimester. Actually, it was a right that was enshrined in common law at the time the Constitution was written. This "Quickening" was the time when the fetus starts moving around in the womb. And yes, any type of abortion, or even any act that terminated the pregnancy after that point was considered a misdemeanor, not a murder.

Prior to 1849 there were laws that prevented abortion. Abortions by black slaves were banned, but not for free people. Slaves were property, they had no control of their reproductive cycle, While many slaves secretly imbibed in those herbal concoctions, getting caught resulted in severe consequences. For all you right wingers that want to taut your parties legacy of eliminating slavery, understand where the foundation of laws against abortion originated.

But it gets better. In 1849 the AMA was founded. In Colonial America, at the founding, and even in the early 1800's, the vast majority of prenatal care was performed by midwives. Fully half of those midwives were black, many of them slaves. Another large percentage of those midwives were Native American, and damn near all of them were female. The AMA, a bunch of white men, came out strongly against the practice of abortion and lobbied hard for legislation banning the practice. Not because of any moral concerns, but because it was a means of wrestling control and power away from the minority and female dominated midwives. And take it from someone that has been right there through half a dozen births, a male white doctor has no place in a delivery room unless there are severe complications. The women of this nation suffered over a 150 years because of this AMA stance. And again, that is the legacy of anti-abortion legislation.

Look, we don't have a SCOTUS anymore. That dog don't hunt, it died long ago. The Trump appointees, of whom he is so proud, are little more than political operators disguised with a robe. Kavenaugh has been nothing but a political operator since day one, and Barrett is a religious zealot whose position as a SCOTUS judge would alarm every single founder to their core. They don't look at the Constitution. They don't give two shits about Stare Decisis. They look for a way to achieve their agenda. This selective recall of history, or perhaps more accurately, ignoring it, a glaring case in point.

Those of you that support this overturning of Roe v. Wade have to be suffering from a level of cognitive dissonance that no normal human being can process. I mean the same people that want to cry and scream about the government making them wear a mask, and God forbid, require an immunization, are the same ones that have no problem telling a woman she has to bring a pregnancy to term. I mean what it really boils down to is a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that don't have a problem telling other people what they should do, but go off the rails if you require them to do anything. You people disgust me. If you were on fire I wouldn't piss on you to put it out. And make no mistake about, you will never be considered part of the crowd that made America great. You will always be seen as the pieces of shit that drove this country out of it's position of world dominance and to the point of insignificance. While the rest of the world is striving forward you guys are busting your ass to take us back to the stone age. And all because you have zero empathy and can't see past the nose on your face.

Isn't the constitution a "living document"?

 

[Winston]

Basically the rule of abortion in Colonial times was that once you show, it must grow. Back then a woman would take a potion that forced a miscarriage

Sad that every Woke idiot wasn't a miscarriage

I find that hilarious. I mean do you people even know the definition of "woke"? In short, my ass is asleep, I don't know shit, and I am proud.

 

[Failzero]

More Black Babies were Aborted since 1973 than Black Folks died from ( Murder ) (Famine) ( War) ( Lynchings) (Weather Disasters) ( Motor Vehicle Accidents) (Disease) (Police Shootings ) in last 300 Years in America

 

[Winston]

Isn't the constitution a "living document"?

Evidently, it is living when the right wants it to be, not living when that suits their purposes. Do you not see the problem?

 

[Donald H]

Roe v. Wade is based on the 14th amendment. First, the due process clause and second, the right to privacy. This leaked opinion circumvents those two aspects of the 14th as they apply to abortion by making the preposterous claim that there was no historical record of a right to an abortion. First, at the time of the 14th amendment, and second, during the time the Constitution was written. In order for an unenumerated right to be protected under the 14th there must be some basis for that right under common law at the time of the nation's founding.

It is obvious, either they don't teach Early American History at the schools these justices attended, or they have a selective memory. Abortion was common in Colonial America. No, not a medical abortion, but a chemical one. There are, and were, specific herbal concoctions that induced an abortion. It was an accepted practice for more than two centuries as long as it happened before "Quickening", sometime during the second trimester. Actually, it was a right that was enshrined in common law at the time the Constitution was written. This "Quickening" was the time when the fetus starts moving around in the womb. And yes, any type of abortion, or even any act that terminated the pregnancy after that point was considered a misdemeanor, not a murder.

Prior to 1849 there were laws that prevented abortion. Abortions by black slaves were banned, but not for free people. Slaves were property, they had no control of their reproductive cycle, While many slaves secretly imbibed in those herbal concoctions, getting caught resulted in severe consequences. For all you right wingers that want to taut your parties legacy of eliminating slavery, understand where the foundation of laws against abortion originated.

But it gets better. In 1849 the AMA was founded. In Colonial America, at the founding, and even in the early 1800's, the vast majority of prenatal care was performed by midwives. Fully half of those midwives were black, many of them slaves. Another large percentage of those midwives were Native American, and damn near all of them were female. The AMA, a bunch of white men, came out strongly against the practice of abortion and lobbied hard for legislation banning the practice. Not because of any moral concerns, but because it was a means of wrestling control and power away from the minority and female dominated midwives. And take it from someone that has been right there through half a dozen births, a male white doctor has no place in a delivery room unless there are severe complications. The women of this nation suffered over a 150 years because of this AMA stance. And again, that is the legacy of anti-abortion legislation.

Look, we don't have a SCOTUS anymore. That dog don't hunt, it died long ago. The Trump appointees, of whom he is so proud, are little more than political operators disguised with a robe. Kavenaugh has been nothing but a political operator since day one, and Barrett is a religious zealot whose position as a SCOTUS judge would alarm every single founder to their core. They don't look at the Constitution. They don't give two shits about Stare Decisis. They look for a way to achieve their agenda. This selective recall of history, or perhaps more accurately, ignoring it, a glaring case in point.

Those of you that support this overturning of Roe v. Wade have to be suffering from a level of cognitive dissonance that no normal human being can process. I mean the same people that want to cry and scream about the government making them wear a mask, and God forbid, require an immunization, are the same ones that have no problem telling a woman she has to bring a pregnancy to term. I mean what it really boils down to is a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that don't have a problem telling other people what they should do, but go off the rails if you require them to do anything. You people disgust me. If you were on fire I wouldn't piss on you to put it out. And make no mistake about, you will never be considered part of the crowd that made America great. You will always be seen as the pieces of shit that drove this country out of it's position of world dominance and to the point of insignificance. While the rest of the world is striving forward you guys are busting your ass to take us back to the stone age. And all because you have zero empathy and can't see past the nose on your face.

Most of that rings quite true, but you're not considering how a turn to fascism can turn such an important issue into nothing to do with loss of freedom. You're witnessing the breakdown of democracy, in the same way that Germany allowed it to happen in the 30's.

Look, I've just cut to the chase without a lot of window dressing. It's up to others to understand the obvious reason for this insanity on abortion.

The rights and freedoms of Americans have already been downgraded from modern first world country standards. This is a huge step toward that process.

American women will go to Canada, Mexico, or use knitting needles or coathangers. And if they're found out, they will be prosecuted and imprisoned.

Yes, it's as bad as you say, but the American people have almost certainly made their choice.

 

[Winston]

Most of that rings quite true, but you're not considering how a turn to fascism can turn such an important issue into nothing to do with loss of freedom. You're witnessing the breakdown of democracy, in the same way that Germany allowed it to happen in the 30's.

Look, I've just cut to the chase without a lot of window dressing. It's up to others to understand the obvious reason for this insanity on abortion.

The rights and freedoms of Americans have already been downgraded from modern first world country standards. This is a huge step toward that process.

American women will go to Canada, Mexico, or use knitting needles or coathangers. And if they're found out, they will be prosecuted and imprisoned.

Yes, it's as bad as you say, but the American people have almost certainly made their choice.

No, the American people have not made their choice. A bunch of clowns in a black robe have made the choice for them. Tyranny comes in more forms than just a tyrant leader. The nomination process for SCOTUS justices has turned into a shit show, mostly because of the real anti-christ, Mitch McConnell, and now we are forced to deal with the aftermath.

The solution is simple, pack the damn court. 27 justices on a random rotating docket. And Thomas needs to go. The alternative, send them all home and create a new court with selection based on ability, not politics.

 

[Donald H]

That is a turning point in American history that will not go unnoticed.

It's a turning point Winston but it appears that it will go unnoticed for what it represents.

If any of the brighter bulbs give it any thought then they will need to turn to denial of the intent and hide behind a smokescreen of it being each state's choice.

This denial of abortion rights is not the problem; it's only one rotten apple in the barrel. Americans like you need to deal with the barrel first. And very soon!

Could America find it's way back if 'THE' bad apple was eliminated?

 

[Ralph Norton]

Evidently, it is living when the right wants it to be, not living when that suits their purposes. Do you not see the problem?

And democrats are exactly the same.

 

[Winston]

No, the American people have not made their choice. A bunch of clowns in a black robe have made the choice for them. Tyranny comes in more forms than just a tyrant leader. The nomination process for SCOTUS justices has turned into a shit show, mostly because of the real anti-christ, Mitch McConnell, and now we are forced to deal with the aftermath.

The solution is simple, pack the damn court. 27 justices on a random rotating docket. And Thomas needs to go. The alternative, send them all home and create a new court with selection based on ability, not politics.

I am serious about a new court. A history exam would be the first criteria. If you don't know American history, you got no place on the SCOTUS. And then the classic personality test. If you are obsessed and paranoid to the extent that you think someone is out to get you, well you can't volunteer as a testing subject for the EPA, you sure as hell can't be a SCOTUS justice.

I mean Thomas might as well have a ring in his nose tied to a string that his ugly fatass wife yields to control him. How many times has he been the lone dissenter? Barrett, my God, she is a total nutcase. I wouldn't be comfortable with her being a den mother, let alone a SCOTUS justice. Kavenaugh, please, if he was the coach of my daughter's basketball team I would end up stomping his ass.

 

[Donald H]

No, the American people have not made their choice.

I've left open the possibility of America finding the way back if 'THE' bad apple is eliminated. Otherwise the majority have made their choice and that was verified yesterday with their primaries.

A bunch of clowns in a black robe have made the choice for them.

The preliminaries on what I'm suggesting have been accomplished in the judicial system. So you get that right too.

Tyranny comes in more forms than just a tyrant leader.

The leadership came to fix the Scotus. It may have even come to the ballot boxes but that's probably not even necessary.

The nomination process for SCOTUS justices has turned into a shit show, mostly because of the real anti-christ, Mitch McConnell, and now we are forced to deal with the aftermath.

Shit shows and anti-christs aside. Those descriptions serve no purpose. Stay on message.

The solution is simple, pack the damn court. 27 justices on a random rotating docket. And Thomas needs to go. The alternative, send them all home and create a new court with selection based on ability, not politics.

Yes, it's time to start looking for solutions. But you and the side of returning America to normal, have lost the power to do so. Even in the democratic system, you've lost that power.

And after the next election, even democracy's power will be defeated by the people's acceptance of fascism.

Deal with the apple barrel. 1930's Germany tried and almost succeeded. They might have!

 

[Winston]

I've left open the possibility of America finding the way back if 'THE' bad apple is eliminated. Otherwise the majority have made their choice and that was verified yesterday with their primaries.

The preliminaries on what I'm suggesting have been accomplished in the judicial system. So you get that right too.

The leadership came to fix the Scotus. It may have even come to the ballot boxes but that's probably not even necessary.

Shit shows and anti-christs aside. Those descriptions serve no purpose. Stay on message.

Yes, it's time to start looking for solutions. But you and the side of returning America to normal, have lost the power to do so. Even in the democratic system, you've lost that power.

And after the next election, even democracy's power will be defeated by the people's acceptance of fascism.

Deal with the apple barrel. 1930's Germany tried and almost succeeded. They might have!

Actually, I am confident that this whole fiasco will relegate the Republican party to the scrap heap of history, where they deserve to be. The Republican party never wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade, never. They just wanted to use it to draw in votes. But what they have succeeded in doing is seed the court with a bunch of numbnuts with some personal religious calling, McConnell and Trump deserve much of that credit and history will judge them accordingly.

And that is the apple barrel. The rotten apple in the barrel is the Republican party. If anything, this whole deal about McCarthy is proof. The problem is not that he thought Trump should resign, the problem is that he actually attempted to do what is right. I mean the Republican party has no morals, no ethics. It is all about "winning", and Charlie Sheen comes to mind here. How did that "winning" attitude turn out for him?

 

[Donald H]

Actually, I am confident that this whole fiasco will relegate the Republican party to the scrap heap of history, where they deserve to be.

Of course you do! That's the hope being held out by most rational thinking people. And it's the only hope, regardless of how it's stated in many different ways.

The Republican party never wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade, never. They just wanted to use it to draw in votes.

I would cautiously agree that they've stepped over the bounds of what the GOP wanted. I would even say that they didn't want Trump. They wanted to be re-elected and Trump made that nearly impossible for them, or else! But now the wants of the Republican party are irrelevant if Trump doesn't want the same. For your own benefit, study Hitler's moves and his progress.

But what they have succeeded in doing is seed the court with a bunch of numbnuts with some personal religious calling,

Religion's power can't be fought against. It voids all rational thought.

McConnell and Trump deserve much of that credit and history will judge them accordingly.

Not until after the hurricane, and then it was too late for Germany. Fascism in America isn't stoppable without dealing with the barrel, and then only maybe? But it's a solution that absolutely has to be tried!

And that is the apple barrel. The rotten apple in the barrel is the Republican party. If anything, this whole deal about McCarthy is proof. The problem is not that he thought Trump should resign, the problem is that he actually attempted to do what is right. I mean the Republican party has no morals, no ethics. It is all about "winning", and Charlie Sheen comes to mind here. How did that "winning" attitude turn out for him?

Sorry but you're wrong about McCarthy and McConnell. McCarthy has already been vindicated in broad daylight!. He can be discarded or he can be canonized and then replaced.

There's still only one way of dealing with the apple barrel.

The thing is with the Republican party, you have to believe that they aren't yet rotten to the core. The rot can still be cut out. You have to believe that, regardless of the few extremists such as Gaitz, Marjorie, etc. being completely lost.

 

[Failzero]

Of course you do! That's the hope being held out by most rational thinking people. And it's the only hope, regardless of how it's stated in many different ways.

I would cautiously agree that they've stepped over the bounds of what the GOP wanted. I would even say that they didn't want Trump. They wanted to be re-elected and Trump made that nearly impossible for them, or else! But now the wants of the Republican party are irrelevant if Trump doesn't want the same. For your own benefit, study Hitler's moves and his progress.

Religion's power can't be fought against. It voids all rational thought.

Not until after the hurricane, and then it was too late for Germany. Fascism in America isn't stoppable without dealing with the barrel, and then only maybe? But it's a solution that absolutely has to be tried!

Sorry but you're wrong about McCarthy and McConnell. McCarthy has already been vindicated in broad daylight!. He can be discarded or he can be canonized and then replaced.

There's still only one way of dealing with the apple barrel.

The thing is with the Republican party, you have to believe that they aren't yet rotten to the core. The rot can still be cut out. You have to believe that, regardless of the few extremists such as Gaitz, Marjorie, etc. being completely lost.

Cut out the Core Conservatives so we can have GOP Congresscritters who are for ( Pathway /Amnesty ) ( (Unfettered Choice) (Turbocharged LGBTQPN Rights) ( Sensible Firearms Restrictions) (Green New Deal Mishegoss) ( Gay Marriage) ( Legalized Drugs ) ...

 

[Donald H]

Cut out the Core Conservatives so we can have GOP Congresscritters who are for ( Pathway /Amnesty ) ( (Unfettered Choice) (Turbocharged LGBTQPN Rights) ( Sensible Firearms Restrictions) (Green New Deal Mishegoss) ( Gay Marriage) ( Legalized Drugs ) ...

Your mind has created the exaggerations that you consider to be necessary for the purpose of taking down democracy and installing a fascist dictatorship. Your god is on your side.

History has shown the world in the past that the taking down of the democratic system gets close to unanimous support of the people.

 

[Failzero]

Your mind has created the exaggerations that you consider to be necessary for the purpose of taking down democracy and installing a fascist dictatorship. Your god is on your side.

History has shown the world in the past that the taking down of the democratic system gets close to unanimous support of the people.

My Mind knows the extent the Marxist Far Left & Left will go to to give street cred to Turd Party Types & RINOs ...