Hiroshima drew the short straw

[whitehall]

The "ruling council" was trying to negotiate surrender terms with Stalin while give 'em hell Harry refused to talk. How would we even know if Japan was willing to surrender after we dropped the nukes? They were in shock and power lines were out and civilians were going through what you would expect during a nuclear attack.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The "ruling council" was trying to negotiate surrender terms with Stalin while give 'em hell Harry refused to talk. How would we even know if Japan was willing to surrender after we dropped the nukes? They were in shock and power lines were out and civilians were going through what you would expect during a nuclear attack.

Once again dumb ass read the documents provided. ALL the Japanese offered was a cease fire with a withdrawal to Nov 1941 lines. And when they " negotiated" with the Soviets they did not even offer that. It is all there.

And as for your claim they could not communicate NONE of the bombs were dropped anywhere NEAR Tokyo and we knew right away what they offered when they offered it. And we knew when the Emperor surrendered.

 

[Truthseeker420]

His opinion is just that an OPINION. And it is not backed up with the FACTS. Even after one atomic bomb was dropped the ruling Council REFUSED to surrender and demanded basically a ceasefire with a return to Nov 1941 start lines. No troops in Japan and no lose of Chinese or Korean captured territory.

Even after months of none stop bombing, almost no shipping, winter coming and no way to feed the people or heat their homes the Japanese Army REFUSED to surrender and had no intention of surrendering. It even began cutting bamboo to provide spears to the civilians to human wave attack the landing sites. It had convinced the population that its enemies were monsters and that they should kill themselves rather then surrender. Saipan, Okinawa all provided adequate proof that the Civilians believed the Government.

OMG You are trying to tell me the top Military officer and advisor to Roosevelt and Truman didn't have the facts? Now you're just being ridiculous.

I have SOURCE DOCUMENTS that prove the Japanese were not willing to surrender. You do know what a SOURCE document is, right? The facts do not support the opinion. Yes if they were reasonable men they would have surrendered, but the REALITY is that even after MONTHS of none stop bombing and 2 Atomic bombs the Ruling Government REFUSED to surrender. The ONLY reason a surrender occurred is because the Emperor intervened after the second Atomic Bomb. And even then the Army tried to stage a Coup to prevent him from stopping the war.

I disagree, the documents do support his statements. But you can't make any conclusion off of incomplete facts. Most documents are still classified.

 

[whitehall]

The "ruling council" was trying to negotiate surrender terms with Stalin while give 'em hell Harry refused to talk. How would we even know if Japan was willing to surrender after we dropped the nukes? They were in shock and power lines were out and civilians were going through what you would expect during a nuclear attack.

Once again dumb ass read the documents provided. ALL the Japanese offered was a cease fire with a withdrawal to Nov 1941 lines. And when they " negotiated" with the Soviets they did not even offer that. It is all there.

And as for your claim they could not communicate NONE of the bombs were dropped anywhere NEAR Tokyo and we knew right away what they offered when they offered it. And we knew when the Emperor surrendered.

First of all I don't like being called a dumb ass even by a phony who calls himself a gy-sgt. If the lines of communication were set up so that Tokyo could talk to the US why didn't the US try even one single time to establish a negotiating dialog? We aren't talking about a simple state dept insult you a-hole, we are talking about nuking a country.

 

[Ernie S.]

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

"The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."

ADMIRAL WILLIAM D. LEAHY
(Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman)

His opinion is just that an OPINION. And it is not backed up with the FACTS. Even after one atomic bomb was dropped the ruling Council REFUSED to surrender and demanded basically a ceasefire with a return to Nov 1941 start lines. No troops in Japan and no lose of Chinese or Korean captured territory.

Even after months of none stop bombing, almost no shipping, winter coming and no way to feed the people or heat their homes the Japanese Army REFUSED to surrender and had no intention of surrendering. It even began cutting bamboo to provide spears to the civilians to human wave attack the landing sites. It had convinced the population that its enemies were monsters and that they should kill themselves rather then surrender. Saipan, Okinawa all provided adequate proof that the Civilians believed the Government.

OMG You are trying to tell me the top Military officer and advisor to Roosevelt and Truman didn't have the facts? Now you're just being ridiculous.

He had facts and he had opinions. What you quoted was his opinion. Unfortunately, the country has taken his opinion as fact and as a result, has not won a war since.
"[W]ars cannot be won by destroying women and children." feels good, but is a piss poor way to wage war.
You win a war by completely demoralizing your enemy. Killing soldiers pisses the enemy off and more people will join the effort. Destroying their buildings, their cultural institutions and their civilians, removes the will to fight. Yes it's brutal and cruel. It's supposed to be.
War should be the most horrible of undertakings. It should be hated and avoided at all costs, but when there is no alternative it should be fought to win.

 

[whitehall]

I think the scientist geeks who developed the Bomb were just dying to use it on humans and I think that the only president in the history of the US who never went to college didn't have the intelligence to determine what the hell he was dealing with and I think the Military was running the show after FDR died and they were determined to punish the Japanese people.

 

[Ernie S.]

The "ruling council" was trying to negotiate surrender terms with Stalin while give 'em hell Harry refused to talk. How would we even know if Japan was willing to surrender after we dropped the nukes? They were in shock and power lines were out and civilians were going through what you would expect during a nuclear attack.

Once again dumb ass read the documents provided. ALL the Japanese offered was a cease fire with a withdrawal to Nov 1941 lines. And when they " negotiated" with the Soviets they did not even offer that. It is all there.

And as for your claim they could not communicate NONE of the bombs were dropped anywhere NEAR Tokyo and we knew right away what they offered when they offered it. And we knew when the Emperor surrendered.

First of all I don't like being called a dumb ass even by a phony who calls himself a gy-sgt. If the lines of communication were set up so that Tokyo could talk to the US why didn't the US try even one single time to establish a negotiating dialog? We aren't talking about a simple state dept insult you a-hole, we are talking about nuking a country.

We negotiated all we needed to. We expressed our demands. Japan could accept the terms or risk annihilation. They chose the latter.

 

[Unkotare]

The dirty little secret is that the Japanese were defeated and they knew it. Their navy was gone and they didn't have the air power to resist 24/7 bombing raids on the mainland. They were trying to negotiate terms of surrender but Harry Truman refused to talk. The hangup was preserving the emperor and not executing him. The ironic thing is that the US did preserve the emperor and did not execute him but that was after we dropped two Big Ones on defenseless citizens.

If the Japs knew they were defeated - then they should have negiated faster.

Were simply playing games and stalling for time to let the Russians get involved.

The word is 'Japanese' you fool.

 

[whitehall]

Once again dumb ass read the documents provided. ALL the Japanese offered was a cease fire with a withdrawal to Nov 1941 lines. And when they " negotiated" with the Soviets they did not even offer that. It is all there.

And as for your claim they could not communicate NONE of the bombs were dropped anywhere NEAR Tokyo and we knew right away what they offered when they offered it. And we knew when the Emperor surrendered.

First of all I don't like being called a dumb ass even by a phony who calls himself a gy-sgt. If the lines of communication were set up so that Tokyo could talk to the US why didn't the US try even one single time to establish a negotiating dialog? We aren't talking about a simple state dept insult you a-hole, we are talking about nuking a country.

We negotiated all we needed to. We expressed our demands. Japan could accept the terms or risk annihilation. They chose the latter.

If Give 'em hell Harry showed even a single attempt at trying to avoid using a nuclear device on Japanese civilians and had been rebuffed I would say try again before you unleash the dragon but he didn't even try. Why would glib smug apparently enlightened Americans today simply say the innocent Japanese civilians chose annihilation?

 

[Unkotare]

The biggest act of Terrorism ever.

The projected losses of an Invasion were estimated to be 1 million allied casualties with over 100000 dead. For Japan it was likely a civilization ender. The plans by Japan had all able bodied civilians arming themselves with bamboo spears and human wave attacking the landing sites. MILLIONS would have died.

And no Japan had no intention of surrendering before the second atomic bomb was dropped. The Army ran the Government and the only "offer" they made was a ceasefire and return to the Borders of Nov 1941.

Do I need to link my source documents again?

The 'There was no choice!' refrain is a cheap out by simpletons who can't or don't want to consider what is a complex moral and historical issue.

The 'civilians on the beach with sticks' bit is especially asinine.


Of course, this is where stereotypes, overgeneralizations, and outright ignorance usually enters into the discussion.

 

[ginscpy]

The dirty little secret is that the Japanese were defeated and they knew it. Their navy was gone and they didn't have the air power to resist 24/7 bombing raids on the mainland. They were trying to negotiate terms of surrender but Harry Truman refused to talk. The hangup was preserving the emperor and not executing him. The ironic thing is that the US did preserve the emperor and did not execute him but that was after we dropped two Big Ones on defenseless citizens.

If the Japs knew they were defeated - then they should have negiated faster.

Were simply playing games and stalling for time to let the Russians get involved.

The word is 'Japanese' you fool.

Same thing as Brits or Yanks

 

[Unkotare]

If the Japs knew they were defeated - then they should have negiated faster.

Were simply playing games and stalling for time to let the Russians get involved.

The word is 'Japanese' you fool.

Same thing as Brits or Yanks

Wrong.

 

[ginscpy]

maybe to PC smucks like you

 

[Unkotare]

Don't try to play Mr. History if you are really so ******* ignorant.

 

[ginscpy]

love PC bitches

******* Japs massecred onemillion civilians in theRape of Nanking in 1936 alone

 

[Unkotare]

The word is 'Japanese,' you ignorant, illiterate fool.

 

[ginscpy]

*****

 

[Unkotare]

I guess you need to go one word at a time to avoid your usual errors in grammar, punctuation, and even spacing. Of course that doesn't help you with your spelling and basic facts. You are extremely stupid.

 

[mskafka]

The biggest act of Terrorism ever.

That would be Obamacare.

I think that was an attempt at humor.

 

[barry1960]

The biggest act of Terrorism ever.

Considering how many lives would have been lost in the invasion of Japan it could be argued that it was an act of mercy. An invasion would have cost millions of Japanese lives. The behavior of both the Japanese military and citizens on Okinawa leaves little room for doubt of the genocide that would have occurred.

Some say a demonstration of the bomb's power would have been more humane, but the Japanese refusal to surrender after the first atomic bomb was dropped demonstrates this strategy would not have worked.

Also, the comment "greatest act of terrorism ever" sounds like a ridiculous cry for attention. There was a war between the two counties at the time. The bombing was a military operation. If you are going to include war time operations, why not the bombing of Dresdan or the Siege of Leningrad, both of which cost many more lives.