Hi you all - a little about me:

[Newtonian]

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and am interested in both Biblical research and scientific research. I am also into the environment as we believe earth is a gift to man from God (Jehovah - Psalms 83:18 KJV). My wife and I are organic gardeners but are now elderly so we don't do as much gardening as we used to.

In view of current events, Jesus foretold pestilence/plague as a sign of the last days (Luke 21:11) which we believe began in 1914 when WWI began and that therefore the Spanish influenza of 1918, which killed c. 20 million people that year, was part of the beginning of the last days. Not sure if the current Corona/Covid 19 plague/pandemic is part of the end of the last days.

I love doing research and especially researching answers to questions. I hate debating, but like discussing subjects with those who may not agree with us/me.

WELCOME to the boards, Newtonian. May you enjoy your new adventure. You arrived at a pretty perfect time as we are all learning to navigate a new board format.

Thank you.

 

[Newtonian]

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and am interested in both Biblical research and scientific research. I am also into the environment as we believe earth is a gift to man from God (Jehovah - Psalms 83:18 KJV). My wife and I are organic gardeners but are now elderly so we don't do as much gardening as we used to.

In view of current events, Jesus foretold pestilence/plague as a sign of the last days (Luke 21:11) which we believe began in 1914 when WWI began and that therefore the Spanish influenza of 1918, which killed c. 20 million people that year, was part of the beginning of the last days. Not sure if the current Corona/Covid 19 plague/pandemic is part of the end of the last days.

I love doing research and especially researching answers to questions. I hate debating, but like discussing subjects with those who may not agree with us/me.

Welcome! You'll find this place informative, amusing, head scratching, and sometimes, you'll catch yourself actually talking to yourself saying, "did I just read that?"
I don't think the virus is our end of days but the great part about participating in this forum is that keyboards are socially distant.

Just grab your flame retardant clothing and head gear and as always, try not to take anything personally.

Thank you also!

Well, personally what convinces me we are near the end (good news - Mt.24:14) is how man is destroying the earth since it was foretold our Creator will destroy those destroying the earth - Revelation 11:18. Btw - in our area (SE Louisiana) we no longer go door to door. So, your welcome is like inviting me in!

And you can't catch viruses on the internet!

Btw - I also have a sense of humor.

 

[TNHarley]

Yes, plague is only 100 years old. No plagues before the spanish flu.
Thanks for the info

Is it proper to discuss topics like pestilence on this thread? Assuming it is:

The Spanish Influenza was the worst plague in history from before 1918 - hopefully this current pestilence will not be worse. Note also that the 1918 pandemic killed 20 million people worldwide in just one year - and spread to all but 2 islands if I remember correctly. Also that flu strain was also a virus - man has not progressed much in curing viruses.

All that Jesus foretold for the last days began in 1914 - not just pestilence. I posted on that because we are in a pandemic right now.

The black plague killed up to 200m people. It wiped out 50 percent of europe.
The plague of Justinian killed up to 50m people and that was 1500 years ago..
Seems you are distorting reality to fit your theory.

Can you document your figures? The black plague killed about 20 million people between c. 1347-1351 CE. [Note: Also called black death, bubonic plague, pneumonic plague]. From our website some articles on the bubonic plague:

Black Death (Plague) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Here are some of our links on the currently relevant information about the spanish influenza:

Spanish Influenza — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

For example this excerpt from this link:

Four Horsemen at the Gallop! — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"Following in the wake of the ravages of World War I, the Spanish flu reaped over 20 million human lives in just a few months of 1918-19. The only territory on earth to escape this scourge was the small island of St. Helena. In places where the population was decimated, funeral pyres were lit to burn the piles of bodies."

A link from our website on the plague of Justinian:

Insight on the News — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Excerpt:

"“In all history there had been no sterner, swifter visitation of death,” says “Science Digest” of the 1918 Spanish influenza epidemic. The article notes that the sixth-century plague of Justinian “supposedly claimed 100 million lives—but it endured for 50 years.”"

The black plague had 3 stages, also called the bubonic plague. What you cited, was the second.
Guess i should have been more clear. My apologies.
All together it was almost 200m.

No problem. Glad you are interested in accurate information.

In Jesus prophecy for the last days in Matthew chapter 24; Luke 21, Mark 13 he indicated all of these things, not just diseases, would mark the last days. For example, Mt.24:7-9 refers to nation against nation (Greek ethnos) not just kingdom against kingdom (Greek basilea). Britannica notes World War I was the first total war - this is why historians refer to this as WWI.

Two brief excerpts from Britannica:

World War I | Britannica

World War I: To its contemporaries, it was known simply as "the World War" or "the Great War," because it was nearly impossible to imagine a conflict that would surpass the one that shattered Europe between July 28, 1914, and November 11, 1918.

www.britannica.com

"To its contemporaries, it was known simply as “the World War” or “the Great War,” because it was nearly impossible to imagine a conflict that would surpass the one that shattered Europe between July 28, 1914, and November 11, 1918. Combat and disease claimed the lives of more than 8 million fighting men, and 21 million more were wounded. As many as 13 million civilians died as a result of starvation, exposure, disease, military action, and massacres. ...

the intercontinental movement of troops helped fuel the deadliest influenza pandemic in history. The ripple effects of the war, from the Great Depression, to World War II, to the Cold War, continue to be felt today."

But why ignore all pandemics?
World war 1 only involved 17 percent of all countries on earth. That is far from the implications in Matthew. I get that was almost half the world population, but matthew doesnt speak of individuals.

 

[Newtonian]

Yes, plague is only 100 years old. No plagues before the spanish flu.
Thanks for the info

Is it proper to discuss topics like pestilence on this thread? Assuming it is:

The Spanish Influenza was the worst plague in history from before 1918 - hopefully this current pestilence will not be worse. Note also that the 1918 pandemic killed 20 million people worldwide in just one year - and spread to all but 2 islands if I remember correctly. Also that flu strain was also a virus - man has not progressed much in curing viruses.

All that Jesus foretold for the last days began in 1914 - not just pestilence. I posted on that because we are in a pandemic right now.

The black plague killed up to 200m people. It wiped out 50 percent of europe.
The plague of Justinian killed up to 50m people and that was 1500 years ago..
Seems you are distorting reality to fit your theory.

Can you document your figures? The black plague killed about 20 million people between c. 1347-1351 CE. [Note: Also called black death, bubonic plague, pneumonic plague]. From our website some articles on the bubonic plague:

Black Death (Plague) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Here are some of our links on the currently relevant information about the spanish influenza:

Spanish Influenza — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

For example this excerpt from this link:

Four Horsemen at the Gallop! — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"Following in the wake of the ravages of World War I, the Spanish flu reaped over 20 million human lives in just a few months of 1918-19. The only territory on earth to escape this scourge was the small island of St. Helena. In places where the population was decimated, funeral pyres were lit to burn the piles of bodies."

A link from our website on the plague of Justinian:

Insight on the News — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Excerpt:

"“In all history there had been no sterner, swifter visitation of death,” says “Science Digest” of the 1918 Spanish influenza epidemic. The article notes that the sixth-century plague of Justinian “supposedly claimed 100 million lives—but it endured for 50 years.”"

The black plague had 3 stages, also called the bubonic plague. What you cited, was the second.
Guess i should have been more clear. My apologies.
All together it was almost 200m.

No problem. Glad you are interested in accurate information.

In Jesus prophecy for the last days in Matthew chapter 24; Luke 21, Mark 13 he indicated all of these things, not just diseases, would mark the last days. For example, Mt.24:7-9 refers to nation against nation (Greek ethnos) not just kingdom against kingdom (Greek basilea). Britannica notes World War I was the first total war - this is why historians refer to this as WWI.

Two brief excerpts from Britannica:

World War I | Britannica

World War I: To its contemporaries, it was known simply as "the World War" or "the Great War," because it was nearly impossible to imagine a conflict that would surpass the one that shattered Europe between July 28, 1914, and November 11, 1918.

www.britannica.com

"To its contemporaries, it was known simply as “the World War” or “the Great War,” because it was nearly impossible to imagine a conflict that would surpass the one that shattered Europe between July 28, 1914, and November 11, 1918. Combat and disease claimed the lives of more than 8 million fighting men, and 21 million more were wounded. As many as 13 million civilians died as a result of starvation, exposure, disease, military action, and massacres. ...

the intercontinental movement of troops helped fuel the deadliest influenza pandemic in history. The ripple effects of the war, from the Great Depression, to World War II, to the Cold War, continue to be felt today."

But why ignore all pandemics?
World war 1 only involved 17 percent of all countries on earth. That is far from the implications in Matthew. I get that was almost half the world population, but matthew doesnt speak of individuals.

Well, sadly, it is hard to ignore the current epidemic.

You may find H.G. Wells "Outline of History" chapter entitled "The Catastrophe of 1914" of interest.

 

[norwegen]

Welcome.

My favorite Newtonians are the Fig Newtonians.

 

[Sunsettommy]

WILL YOU GUYS KNOCK IT OFF??? THIS IS INTRODUCTIONS. MindWars, no one cares if you broke the rules again and got reported. I'm sure it is our fate to have you with us forever, regardless of the nonsense you're always very badly composing into semi-English. Votto, take it to the religion and ethics forum. Same for anyone else.

I will ignore posts like what you are referring to. Thank you for the good advice - religion and ethics forum I will hopefully find and post at.

The ignore button works well here....

Welcome, you have a nice name.

 

[beautress]

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and am interested in both Biblical research and scientific research. I am also into the environment as we believe earth is a gift to man from God (Jehovah - Psalms 83:18 KJV). My wife and I are organic gardeners but are now elderly so we don't do as much gardening as we used to.

In view of current events, Jesus foretold pestilence/plague as a sign of the last days (Luke 21:11) which we believe began in 1914 when WWI began and that therefore the Spanish influenza of 1918, which killed c. 20 million people that year, was part of the beginning of the last days. Not sure if the current Corona/Covid 19 plague/pandemic is part of the end of the last days.

I love doing research and especially researching answers to questions. I hate debating, but like discussing subjects with those who may not agree with us/me.

Welcome to USMB, Newtonian. Hope you enjoy the boards.

 

[Newtonian]

Welcome.

My favorite Newtonians are the Fig Newtonians.

Thank you.

I think that may be a fig ment of your imagination!

Seriously, like me, Newton believed both science and the Bible are sources of truth and he wrote more on his Biblical research then on his scientific research.

 

[norwegen]

Welcome.

My favorite Newtonians are the Fig Newtonians.

Thank you.

I think that may be a fig ment of your imagination!

Seriously, like me, Newton believed both science and the Bible are sources of truth and he wrote more on his Biblical research then on his scientific research.

Science and the Bible are sources of truth and meaning. That may well be.

To be sure, though, science is devoid of faith, and the Bible is devoid of science.

 

[Newtonian]

Welcome.

My favorite Newtonians are the Fig Newtonians.

Thank you.

I think that may be a fig ment of your imagination!

Seriously, like me, Newton believed both science and the Bible are sources of truth and he wrote more on his Biblical research then on his scientific research.

Science and the Bible are sources of truth and meaning. That may well be.

To be sure, though, science is devoid of faith, and the Bible is devoid of science.

Hi Norwegen! I basically agree with you.

My favorite Scripture linking the Bible with science is Romans 1:20 which invites a study of "the things made" which actually involves all branches of scientific study:

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Romans 1:20
For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made,+ even his eternal power+ and Godship,+ so that they are inexcusable.

The link includes other translations; from the Greek interlinear: "the unseen things of him." One of these things is God's "power" (Greek dynamis). Isaiah 40:22, besides stating earth is round (Hebrew chuwg = circle in 2 dimensions; sphere in 3 dimensions), states God is "stretching out" the heavens (expansion of universe) and Isaiah 40:26 uses two Hebrew words linking God's power and dynamic energy with the existence of stars. The word translated power is singular koach in Hebrew but the word translated "dynamic energy" (NW Is.40:26) is plural ohnim in Hebrew which when compared with Romans 1:20 (invisible dynamis/power) implies what is now known about the expansion of the universe - ohnim is plural so this refers to plural forms of God's invisible energy (Greek dynamis).

An in depth study of the fine tuned expansion rate of our universe shows that the existence of stars is linked to this rate and also that the "stretching out" of the universe involves at least two forms of invisible energy (God is invisible): gravity and dark energy. When I look up at the stars at night, knowing what scientific study has revealed and what Biblical research has revealed, moves me to glorify God - praise Jehovah! (=Hallelujah).

Psalms 19:1
The heavens are declaring the glory of God; The skies above* proclaim the work of his hands.+

Psalms 8:3,4
When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers,
The moon and the stars that you have prepared,+
4 What is mortal man that you keep him in mind,
And a son of man that you take care of him?+