Hi Def Society, Episode 3 streams here tonight 9/2/15

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I dont take anything ya say personally its no bother...

Just wanna make sure im not lumped into some thought or view ive never personally expressed having.

I dont believe in any economic system currently in existence, period.

Capitalism, socialism, communism........none of them. Theyre all too capable of failure, they all lead to bad things and quite frankly, as a species period we are better than this at this point.

In regard to spending other people's money (tax) vs. Charity (voluntary), theyre not the same type of investment and the comparison I dont think is cohesive.

On welfare, which in and of itself im quite uneasy about, the thought behind it is that it benefits everyone when the lowest classes are still able to participate in the economic and innovative growth of the Country....its an investment and the investors (taxpayers) in theory are supposed to see a return.

And it doesnt work, thats besides the point of shutting down the comparison.

Charity, the only roi is for the particular cause your donating to and not society as a whole.

I cant even be bothered to type the zillions of thoughts I have on these things but, lets just say im no huge fan of welfare and also dont believe in any of our current "ism" economic models......laissez faire or not.

Thanks man ... And I wasn't fussing at anyone.

Of course welfare and charity are different with different goals ... And neither is guaranteed to produce the desired outcome.
I was talking about it strictly in the sense of altruism ... And how it is viewed by different people with regards to how much they have invested in the process.

I don't expect anyone to have the same ideas ... I just think it is easier for people in general to believe they are doing something good ... Even when they are supporting the idea of doing it with someone else's money.

Maybe it is more of my own perception that true altruism is not a product of government at all.

.

As with most government programs, I believe welfare was began with good intentions. But then the politicians figured out they could use the system to buy votes.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

On the flipside of my dislike of poverty, its a cycle which exascerbates itself and the problem isnt quite being looked at in terms of defeating the cycle....

Youve got1 side wanting to throw money at it while the other side espousing that its mere laziness bada bing....


The truth is somewhere outside of both, while incorporating minimal elements of both.

Platitudes and looking at issused on a macro level is what the Country's been taught to do.

Life is JUST not that simple. It isnt. 300+ million peolple with a billion plus sets of circumstances.......i get tired of people assuming things as a conglomerate and dehumanizing the actual situations.

on the other hand, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. That doesn't mean it's always true.

but, for example, I put the percentage of people receiving SNAP (food stamps) who own a >$200 smart phone at at LEAST 50%. Likewise I bet >50% of SNAP recipients smoke and or drink or use other drugs.

those are the kinds of things which lead people like me who believe in helping others , but look at their deep five figure tax bill every year to say "what the ****?"

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

On the flipside of my dislike of poverty, its a cycle which exascerbates itself and the problem isnt quite being looked at in terms of defeating the cycle....

Youve got1 side wanting to throw money at it while the other side espousing that its mere laziness bada bing....


The truth is somewhere outside of both, while incorporating minimal elements of both.

Platitudes and looking at issused on a macro level is what the Country's been taught to do.

Life is JUST not that simple. It isnt. 300+ million peolple with a billion plus sets of circumstances.......i get tired of people assuming things as a conglomerate and dehumanizing the actual situations.

on the other hand, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. That doesn't mean it's always true.

but, for example, I put the percentage of people receiving SNAP (food stamps) who own a >$200 smart phone at at LEAST 50%. Likewise I bet >50% of SNAP recipients smoke and or drink or use other drugs.

those are the kinds of things which lead people like me who believe in helping others , but look at their deep five figure tax bill every year to say "what the ****?"

If you were dealing with deep depression and partake in the self medication the vast majority of people in similar circumstances do.....its probably at minimal owed to you for each and every minute little thing that ate you at your core to be looked at and understood before people cast their little judgments.

And depression isnt even always circumstancial, but can also be chemical.

So you don't believe those people owe it to us the taxpayer to try to get themselves out of their situations? And lets just be honest, MANY people on welfare have zero intention of ever bettering themselves. Why would they?

I was telling Paulie about a buddy of mine who was building some HUD qualifying apartments in town, they are almost ready, he's signing up renters now. the rent is $500 a month. Those who qualify for HUD can pay as little as $60 a month out of their own pockets. Those people would of course also qualify for medicaid, SNAP, TIA , and a host of other welfare programs.

When does it stop?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

On the flipside of my dislike of poverty, its a cycle which exascerbates itself and the problem isnt quite being looked at in terms of defeating the cycle....

Youve got1 side wanting to throw money at it while the other side espousing that its mere laziness bada bing....


The truth is somewhere outside of both, while incorporating minimal elements of both.

Platitudes and looking at issused on a macro level is what the Country's been taught to do.

Life is JUST not that simple. It isnt. 300+ million peolple with a billion plus sets of circumstances.......i get tired of people assuming things as a conglomerate and dehumanizing the actual situations.

on the other hand, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. That doesn't mean it's always true.

but, for example, I put the percentage of people receiving SNAP (food stamps) who own a >$200 smart phone at at LEAST 50%. Likewise I bet >50% of SNAP recipients smoke and or drink or use other drugs.

those are the kinds of things which lead people like me who believe in helping others , but look at their deep five figure tax bill every year to say "what the ****?"

If you were dealing with deep depression and partake in the self medication the vast majority of people in similar circumstances do.....its probably at minimal owed to you for each and every minute little thing that ate you at your core to be looked at and understood before people cast their little judgments.

And depression isnt even always circumstancial, but can also be chemical.

So you don't believe those people owe it to us the taxpayer to try to get themselves out of their situations? And lets just be honest, MANY people on welfare have zero intention of ever bettering themselves. Why would they?

I was telling Paulie about a buddy of mine who was building some HUD qualifying apartments in town, they are almost ready, he's signing up renters now. the rent is $500 a month. Those who qualify for HUD can pay as little as $60 a month out of their own pockets. Those people would of course also qualify for medicaid, SNAP, TIA , and a host of other welfare programs.

When does it stop?

Some of them dont even know what the **** a taxpayer is or entails.

Some are taking advantage straight up.

Some have not been raised and wouldnt know what "owe it to them" means in the sense youre using it.

I mean.....i just dont buy into pidgeonholing. It doesnt help anybody.

Just handing out free money with no expectations of ANYTHING in return doesn't help anyone either GT.

Bet you learn that lesson as a parent pretty damn soon, if you haven't already. Reinforcing negative behavior and expecting a positive result is fool hardy.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

on the other hand, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. That doesn't mean it's always true.

but, for example, I put the percentage of people receiving SNAP (food stamps) who own a >$200 smart phone at at LEAST 50%. Likewise I bet >50% of SNAP recipients smoke and or drink or use other drugs.

those are the kinds of things which lead people like me who believe in helping others , but look at their deep five figure tax bill every year to say "what the ****?"

If you were dealing with deep depression and partake in the self medication the vast majority of people in similar circumstances do.....its probably at minimal owed to you for each and every minute little thing that ate you at your core to be looked at and understood before people cast their little judgments.

And depression isnt even always circumstancial, but can also be chemical.

So you don't believe those people owe it to us the taxpayer to try to get themselves out of their situations? And lets just be honest, MANY people on welfare have zero intention of ever bettering themselves. Why would they?

I was telling Paulie about a buddy of mine who was building some HUD qualifying apartments in town, they are almost ready, he's signing up renters now. the rent is $500 a month. Those who qualify for HUD can pay as little as $60 a month out of their own pockets. Those people would of course also qualify for medicaid, SNAP, TIA , and a host of other welfare programs.

When does it stop?

Some of them dont even know what the **** a taxpayer is or entails.

Some are taking advantage straight up.

Some have not been raised and wouldnt know what "owe it to them" means in the sense youre using it.

I mean.....i just dont buy into pidgeonholing. It doesnt help anybody.

Just handing out free money with no expectations of ANYTHING in return doesn't help anyone either GT.

Bet you learn that lesson as a parent pretty damn soon, if you haven't already. Reinforcing negative behavior and expecting a positive result is fool hardy.

No offense man, but youre not teaching me anything.

Read carefully like 5 posts ago. I clearly said welfare doesnt work and I dont like it.

Use my actual words before ya go ahead and try and give me a teaching moment.....Im young but ive been around the block - i know my stuff and the only things even capable of catching me by surprise these days are that parrots can live close to seven decades and them im "relaxed' when a guy is fondeling my privates.

LOL sorry about that. comes from being a career military officer and father. I wasn't trying to "teach " you anything, it's just the way I talk

And I wasn't suggesting that you were pro welfare. I was suggesting that you are wrong about pigeonholing in this instance. If most people on welfare didn't fit in that pigeonhole, the pigeonhole wouldn't exist to begin with.

It's sort of like the stereotype that Alabama is full of cousin fuckers. That stereotype began SOMEWHERE. Is everyone in Alabama ******* their cousin? No, but that doesn't mean the stereotype isn't true.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

So you don't believe those people owe it to us the taxpayer to try to get themselves out of their situations? And lets just be honest, MANY people on welfare have zero intention of ever bettering themselves. Why would they?

I was telling Paulie about a buddy of mine who was building some HUD qualifying apartments in town, they are almost ready, he's signing up renters now. the rent is $500 a month. Those who qualify for HUD can pay as little as $60 a month out of their own pockets. Those people would of course also qualify for medicaid, SNAP, TIA , and a host of other welfare programs.

When does it stop?

Some of them dont even know what the **** a taxpayer is or entails.

Some are taking advantage straight up.

Some have not been raised and wouldnt know what "owe it to them" means in the sense youre using it.

I mean.....i just dont buy into pidgeonholing. It doesnt help anybody.

Just handing out free money with no expectations of ANYTHING in return doesn't help anyone either GT.

Bet you learn that lesson as a parent pretty damn soon, if you haven't already. Reinforcing negative behavior and expecting a positive result is fool hardy.

No offense man, but youre not teaching me anything.

Read carefully like 5 posts ago. I clearly said welfare doesnt work and I dont like it.

Use my actual words before ya go ahead and try and give me a teaching moment.....Im young but ive been around the block - i know my stuff and the only things even capable of catching me by surprise these days are that parrots can live close to seven decades and them im "relaxed' when a guy is fondeling my privates.

LOL sorry about that. comes from being a career military officer and father. I wasn't trying to "teach " you anything, it's just the way I talk

And I wasn't suggesting that you were pro welfare. I was suggesting that you are wrong about pigeonholing in this instance. If most people on welfare didn't fit in that pigeonhole, the pigeonhole wouldn't exist to begin with.

It's sort of like the stereotype that Alabama is full of cousin fuckers. That stereotype began SOMEWHERE. Is everyone in Alabama ******* their cousin? No, but that doesn't mean the stereotype isn't true.

Lol

We can agree to disagree.

Anyhoo...did you spin the show ya jolly ole elf, by the pool?

Nah, we had the TV on watching the kids' shows.

Yes we have a outdoor TV by the pool. Mah kids are spoiled errr well loved.

 

[Paulie]

What's so bad about placing some requirements on welfare recipients that, at a bare minimum motivate them to find emloyment, and at a potential maximum, FORCE them to? I think Maine does something like make their recipients sign up for job fair and requires them to have a job by s certain point, and also do a certain amount of hours of volunteer work of their choosing while they're awaiting gainful employment.

I don't mind that you need the help, lord knows a lot of us have paid into the kitty out of our tax dollars and its a reasonable expectation that it's there for us if we God forbid need it, but I expect you to ******* put effort into getting yourself OUT of that hole as soon as possible and contribute to the economy like those of us who bust our ******* asses for our money.

 

[MsnBama]

What's so bad about placing some requirements on welfare recipients that, at a bare minimum motivate them to find emloyment, and at a potential maximum, FORCE them to? I think Maine does something like make their recipients sign up for job fair and requires them to have a job by s certain point, and also do a certain amount of hours of volunteer work of their choosing while they're awaiting gainful employment.

I don't mind that you need the help, lord knows a lot of us have paid into the kitty out of our tax dollars and its a reasonable expectation that it's there for us if we God forbid need it, but I expect you to ******* put effort into getting yourself OUT of that hole as soon as possible and contribute to the economy like those of us who bust our ******* asses for our money.

I don't know about other states but New Hampshire does have restrictions, limitations, and requirements for anyone receiving cash benefits.

 

[Paulie]

What's so bad about placing some requirements on welfare recipients that, at a bare minimum motivate them to find emloyment, and at a potential maximum, FORCE them to? I think Maine does something like make their recipients sign up for job fair and requires them to have a job by s certain point, and also do a certain amount of hours of volunteer work of their choosing while they're awaiting gainful employment.

I don't mind that you need the help, lord knows a lot of us have paid into the kitty out of our tax dollars and its a reasonable expectation that it's there for us if we God forbid need it, but I expect you to ******* put effort into getting yourself OUT of that hole as soon as possible and contribute to the economy like those of us who bust our ******* asses for our money.

I don't know about other states but New Hampshire does have restrictions, limitations, and requirements for anyone receiving cash benefits.

They all have those 3 "words" so to speak, but most of them don't have much going on in the way of getting people off the system and back to work. In fact it's the opposite. The system is set up such that people have it better there then out in the workforce.

 

[Paulie]

I don't think ANYONE should be getting straight up cash, first of all. Just being handed a check to do whatever with is insane and no one is going to work when they're getting that instead. Same thing with rent assistance. It's not my responsibility to provide you with a place to live. Stay at your parents, couch surf at a friends, etc... If you have a child, and a FULL TIME JOB, and still can't afford to put a roof over your heads, then I can see some wiggle room. But you better have exhausted all your alternatives first.

I don't mind food stamps to a degree. And I don't mind money for college. Food and education are expensive and food is necessary for life and education can set these people up to be productive members of society. I'm ok with that.

as far as childcare funding, in NJ you have to be working 35 or more hours a week to even get any money for it. That at least makes sense because if you're NOT working, then you can watch your own child. And I'd rather you be working and your kid be in daycare so you can go make an honest living instead of sit home and collect the money I worked hard for.

 

[Paulie]

I also think there should be a cut off of 2 children max that can qualify you for benefits. You shouldn't be able to keep popping out more kids and the cash register keeps going cha ching.