Here's my take on how Germany could have won WW2

[rupol2000]

No, it did not. They had what we would call a "Tactical Ballistic Missile", with a range of 200 miles. That is not anything even close to an ICBM, which has a range of over 3,400 miles.

The V-2 was not anything even close to an "intercontinental ballistic missile".

The meaning is the same, it flew through space. And it was enough for attack London.
Also they had all modern tactik weapon, modern automatic guns and so on.
Since then, little has changed in armament, the principles laid down in the wunderwaffe still work now, almost a hundred years later.
Nothing fundamentally new except for a hydrogen boimba has been invented since then

 

[rupol2000]

It seems that the United States did not adhere to Britain, but to Germany, they did about the same, only without fanaticism. German missiles ended up in the United States, the German computer was named Harvard architecture, Britain soon disintegrated, which was exactly what Germany wanted. Nuclear weapons were developed in Germany and first used by the United States in Japan. All the facts speak of some kind of connection.

 

[Mushroom]

The meaning is the same, it flew through space.

No, it did not. The maximum altitude of the V-2 was only 55 miles. The accepted limit is known as the Karman Line, which is 62 miles. That places it in the Mesophere. That is not "space".

 

[rupol2000]

Harvard Architecture is a repository of data and programs on different media. This is exactly the architecture that Konrad Zuse developed, where the program was on film and it was separate from memory, on other media. The program was read from a looped perforated film. This is Harvard architecture.

 

[Mushroom]

Harvard architecture

You really are just making things up here.

The most advanced German Computer was the Z3. But neither it or the ones before it were anything more than research tools. The government did not take them seriously, so they were never used as anything other than research objects.

Oh, and even more important, they did not use "Harvard Architecture"! They used the von Neumann architecture model, in which instructions and data occupy the same memory and pathways. This means they can accept data, process results, or export data. Only one of those three things at a time, never two or three at once.

Harvard architecture was developed in the US in 1944, and it is very different. In fact, it is what all modern computers use, as it has the processor component as well as I/O and memory in different stages. So it can handle multiple tasks at once. And it was just a competing way of doing things, like CISC or RISC.

You know, you really look silly when you make a claim like that, and computers has actually been my profession and some say obsession for over 40 years.

 

[rupol2000]

And it was the first real working computer. The second model of this computer was already used in aviation in 1942.
PS Even earlier. In 1940 he already worked for the Luftwaffe

 

[Mushroom]

Harvard Architecture is a repository of data and programs on different media. This is exactly the architecture that Konrad Zuse developed

Oh, he hardly "developed" it. IBM and NCR had been doing that for decades already. He was the first to put it with a digital computer and not an analog computer, but he did not "invent" it. No more than the Germans "invented" the modern rocket.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

Look up at your map once again. Go ahead, look at it.

Baku is not in Iran, it is in Azerbaijan. Now look way down at the bottom of your map. The very bottom, that is where Egypt is.

See all that other area? Palestine, Trans-Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq? All that was still in the way between Egypt and Iran. You are showing a map with arrows on it, and not even seeing that it is talking about an attack from a completely different direction.

And all that pretty purple lined area? Allied controlled. So after taking Egypt, they would still have been fighting through all of that to get to Iran. And once again, how would they have gotten the oil from there to Germany? You are aware that one of the biggest problems Germany suffered from throughout the entire war was transportation, right? So somehow they would have had to magically fight through over 2,000 km. Then occupy Iran, and then somehow set up a way to get the oil to Germany.

Look at your map, and I mean really look at it. Then you might see why I am laughing. Just look at the freaking distances involved, and they could not even capture and hold the Caucasus. Yet, they were going to take Iran and all of their troubles were going to magically vanish.

Through Egypt no less.

This was the place they need to take, just north of the Causcasus Mountains. Baku is on the other end.

Post a link or something. Just your word alone isn't enough.

 

[rupol2000]

Rumor has it that many large American industrialists worked for Germany. In particular, Henry Ford was an anti-Semite and clearly supported the Hitler regime.

 

[rupol2000]

Oh, he hardly "developed" it. IBM and NCR had been doing that for decades already. He was the first to put it with a digital computer and not an analog computer, but he did not "invent" it. No more than the Germans "invented" the modern rocket.

They invented both the rocket and the computer and nuclear decay, that's a fact.

A lot of things can be understood as "inventions", drawings of rockets can be found in Neolithic caves, in pictures of Tsiolkovsky, there are drawings, and descriptions of the "Turing machine", Leonardo Da Vinci also drew something there, but they implemented it all in reality, and there is a big difference: scratching the tongue and do it real.

 

[Mushroom]

And it was the first real working computer. The second model of this computer was already used in aviation in 1942.

No, it was not. Computers had already been around for decades by then.

The Z1 was paid for by donations, and was as the inventor claimed an "advanced floating point Boolean calculator". Not even a computer, but it was close. It was still mechanically operated.

The Z2 was also a single made mechanical calculator. It was not "digital", it had some electronic aspects, but was still primarily mechanical. Only one built of this also, and I have found no evidence that anybody outside of the team that built it ever used it for anything like you claim.

Then as I mentioned, the Z3. Yes, it was also an electromechanical computer. And it did something like what you are describing, as government ordered it shut down and dismantled. So the researchers decided to try and prove it's value by running data through it about the Küssner effect, which did confirm his theory about causes of wing flutter. And the government said "Thank you very much for confirming this, now shut it down".

The first true "Modern Computer" that Zuse designed was the Z4. It holds the unique position in computer history as the first "Digital Computer Sold", as they did sell it in 1942. But the thing is, it was not yet built. It was only in the mind of the inventor still. And still half digital and half mechanical. Ultimately, it was never delivered to the customer, and in 1948 Zuse and his team were still tinkering with it.

So while at an extreme consideration "correct", it really was not how you are trying to imply. All of his computers until the Z22 were single off prototypes. And until the middle of the 1950's were far more mechanical than electronic.

 

[rupol2000]

No more than the Germans "invented" the modern rocket.

The first Soviet rocket R1 was a copy of the V2

 

[Mushroom]

They invented both the rocket and the computer

Uh, even Dr, von Braun admits that the modern rocket came from Robert Goddard. But where Goddard had donations from individuals, von Braun had a government backing his research. Most of the initial design for the V-2 came from designs that Goddard himself had made for a future generation he wanted to build.

And the computer? IBM and NCR were doing computers long before Germany. What computer do you think Germany was using during the war?

Here is a big hint, some are still screaming that a certain company owes reparations for the extensive use Germany put their computers to work doing. And it is not Zuse, it is a company mostly known by three letters.

IBM and the Holocaust - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mushroom]

The first Soviet rocket R1 was a copy of the V2

And the V-2 was an upscaled version of the Goddard Rocket. Even the inventor of the V-2 admitted that.

 

[rupol2000]

No, it was not. Computers had already been around for decades by then.

On paper, and it is not known when these papers were written. For some reason they cannot decide who should be considered first, Post or Turing. For some reason they want Turing, Although they themselves say that Post was the first. I think this whole story with the first paper model was invented in the 70s.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I've been listening to the book:
Ivan's War: The Red Army at War 1939-45


I've long been a skeptic of the theory that Germany could have "won". But I now believe differently.

As you know, the Soviets were dreadfully unprepared for war. Millions of Soviets surrendered to the Germans in 1941. Had the Germans had a different strategy, they could have persuaded those millions of Soviets, along with all of Ukraine, the residents of the Baltic States, the Fins, and more to join them to fight Stalin.

Initially, Soviet troops were eager to surrender rather than face certain death fighting the Germans. According to the book, as the war went on, Soviet soldiers learned of the horrific atrocities that the German SS was committing. As well, they learned of the horrific fate of their comrades in German captivity. Soldiers went from being willing to surrender to fighting until death.

There are three things Hitler would have needed to avoid. One, he would have needed to be content in owning all of Poland and abandoning his plan of "Lebensraum" in Ukraine and the Baltic states as well as Russia. Two, Hitler would have needed to abandon the "Final Solution". Hitler could have deported all of the Jews to France, etc., but putting them into death camps could have definitely been a deal killer. Three, no declaration of war on the U.S. Obviously, I'm taking liberties but whenever discussing alternate history. one is going to take such liberties.

It's probably LIKELY that many Soviet officers, still reeling from the executions of their former comrades (Stalin's purges), would have gladly joined the efforts to remove Stalin. Hell, someone close to Stalin may have simply shot him and that would have been the end of the war and the end of the Soviet Union.

Thoughts?

You’re asking a deranged maniac not to be a deranged maniac. Not sure how that works.

 

[rupol2000]

And the V-2 was an upscaled version of the Goddard Rocket

A rocket a little bigger than a condom? Are you sure it flew into space? Or at least just flying?

 

[Mushroom]

A rocket a little bigger than a condom? Are you sure it flew into space? Or at least just flying?

It was the first liquid fueled rocket, and all of von Braun's work was based directly on Goddard's work.

I never said it flew into space, and neither did the V-2. But the V-2 was a copy of the Goddard rocket.

In fact, von Braun read about Goddard's work in 1926, and in 1927 joined the German Rocket Society. And in an interview much later during the Apollo program, he said the following in an interview.

"Don't you know about your own rocket pioneer? Dr. Goddard was ahead of us all. Goddard's rockets may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles."

Funny how you are trying to scream about something, that even the inventor of freely stated over and over he took from the research of an American inventor.

And do you know what von Braun was doing prior to reading about the work of Goddard?

He was working on the Opel RAK program. A program designed to build rocket powered cars and aircraft. But here is the thing, that research was all in solid fueled rockets. It was only after he read about Goddard and started getting copies of his writings that he instead turned to working on liquid fueled rockets. The Germans would not successfully build a liquid fueled rocket until 1930. Over four years after Goddard, and using an engine based on his work.

 

[rupol2000]

I think that after the split of the NSDAP, part of the Wehrmacht agreed with the United States against Britain, with the secret support of the USSR. A radical turn in the war is connected with this. Around 1943, technologies went to the United States, and significant changes took place in the USSR army, the Bolsheviks lost some of their control. Since then, Kaganovich's group began to gradually weaken, and Khrushchev's group grew stronger.
Already during the war, some of the German specialists left for the United States.
It was at this time that British dominance was undermined, and the center of power was in Washington.
The second stage and the landing in France are obviously connected with this.
The totalitarian regime in the USSR was gradually weakened, and in 1953 Kaganovich's Stalinist group was finally removed from power, and totalitarianism collapsed. Totalitarianism remained only in China.

This version is, in any case, logical.

 

[rupol2000]

I never said it flew into space

ok