Here's Everything You Need To Know About I.s.i.s

[irosie91]

keep track folks-----lets do a poll----

ok???

Is the ISIS movement dangerous to----
the USA? to the WORLD??

I say YES

Is the ISIS movement disorganized and---in general,, ---- NOT in ITSELF a strong military force?

I say YES

Is the ISIS movement dangerous despite
the fact that it is disorganized and not in
itself a strong military force?

I say YES

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't read the entire thread but read the last couple of pages.

The fact is that Muslim people can certainly be fun, engaging, personal, and thoughtful people. Most of those we know personally are all of that as well as being great coworkers, neighbors, and friends. We would have their back if anybody presumed to actively disrespect or harm them in any way.

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

We do not have to go to war with Islam anywhere in the world. But we do need to get over the political correct nonsense that prevents us from seeing and recognizing the situation as it is. No accommodations should be made for Islam in this country any more than for any other religion, and this idiotic thing Obama has of refusing to see the dark side of Islam for what it is I think is downright dangerous.

Islam can't defeat the USA if we who love and value liberty are allowed to love and value it. If Islam wins, it will be our idiotic allegiance to political correctness that will bring us down.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I haven't read the entire thread but read the last couple of pages.

The fact is that Muslim people can certainly be fun, engaging, personal, and thoughtful people. Most of those we know personally are all of that as well as being great coworkers, neighbors, and friends. We would have their back if anybody presumed to actively disrespect or harm them in any way.

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

I agree because ordinary Christians provide no interference when it comes to militant Christians. Such is the nature of all religions. You support your own because you share the same beliefs. That some of your fellow believers are more militant than others goes with the territory. And yes, it happens with Jews too.

So it isn't only Muslims who behave in this manner.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Sharia law will never be imposed here in America.

We do not have to go to war with Islam anywhere in the world. But we do need to get over the political correct nonsense that prevents us from seeing and recognizing the situation as it is. No accommodations should be made for Islam in this country any more than for any other religion, and this idiotic thing Obama has of refusing to see the dark side of Islam for what it is I think is downright dangerous.

Please provide a link to where you believe this to be happening.

Islam can't defeat the USA if we who love and value liberty are allowed to love and value it. If Islam wins, it will be our idiotic allegiance to political correctness that will bring us down.

This nation was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. In order for Islam to "win" the 1st amendment would have to be rescinded. That is never going to happen.

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't read the entire thread but read the last couple of pages.

The fact is that Muslim people can certainly be fun, engaging, personal, and thoughtful people. Most of those we know personally are all of that as well as being great coworkers, neighbors, and friends. We would have their back if anybody presumed to actively disrespect or harm them in any way.

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

I agree because ordinary Christians provide no interference when it comes to militant Christians. Such is the nature of all religions. You support your own because you share the same beliefs. That some of your fellow believers are more militant than others goes with the territory. And yes, it happens with Jews too.

So it isn't only Muslims who behave in this manner.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Sharia law will never be imposed here in America.

We do not have to go to war with Islam anywhere in the world. But we do need to get over the political correct nonsense that prevents us from seeing and recognizing the situation as it is. No accommodations should be made for Islam in this country any more than for any other religion, and this idiotic thing Obama has of refusing to see the dark side of Islam for what it is I think is downright dangerous.

Please provide a link to where you believe this to be happening.

Islam can't defeat the USA if we who love and value liberty are allowed to love and value it. If Islam wins, it will be our idiotic allegiance to political correctness that will bring us down.

This nation was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. In order for Islam to "win" the 1st amendment would have to be rescinded. That is never going to happen.

Love ya Deri, but you completely missed the point I was attempting to make.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I haven't read the entire thread but read the last couple of pages.

The fact is that Muslim people can certainly be fun, engaging, personal, and thoughtful people. Most of those we know personally are all of that as well as being great coworkers, neighbors, and friends. We would have their back if anybody presumed to actively disrespect or harm them in any way.

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

I agree because ordinary Christians provide no interference when it comes to militant Christians. Such is the nature of all religions. You support your own because you share the same beliefs. That some of your fellow believers are more militant than others goes with the territory. And yes, it happens with Jews too.

So it isn't only Muslims who behave in this manner.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Sharia law will never be imposed here in America.

We do not have to go to war with Islam anywhere in the world. But we do need to get over the political correct nonsense that prevents us from seeing and recognizing the situation as it is. No accommodations should be made for Islam in this country any more than for any other religion, and this idiotic thing Obama has of refusing to see the dark side of Islam for what it is I think is downright dangerous.

Please provide a link to where you believe this to be happening.

Islam can't defeat the USA if we who love and value liberty are allowed to love and value it. If Islam wins, it will be our idiotic allegiance to political correctness that will bring us down.

This nation was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. In order for Islam to "win" the 1st amendment would have to be rescinded. That is never going to happen.

Love ya Deri, but you completely missed the point I was attempting to make.

I did?

What did I miss?

Oh, and I love you too, Foxy!

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't read the entire thread but read the last couple of pages.

The fact is that Muslim people can certainly be fun, engaging, personal, and thoughtful people. Most of those we know personally are all of that as well as being great coworkers, neighbors, and friends. We would have their back if anybody presumed to actively disrespect or harm them in any way.

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

I agree because ordinary Christians provide no interference when it comes to militant Christians. Such is the nature of all religions. You support your own because you share the same beliefs. That some of your fellow believers are more militant than others goes with the territory. And yes, it happens with Jews too.

So it isn't only Muslims who behave in this manner.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Sharia law will never be imposed here in America.

We do not have to go to war with Islam anywhere in the world. But we do need to get over the political correct nonsense that prevents us from seeing and recognizing the situation as it is. No accommodations should be made for Islam in this country any more than for any other religion, and this idiotic thing Obama has of refusing to see the dark side of Islam for what it is I think is downright dangerous.

Please provide a link to where you believe this to be happening.

Islam can't defeat the USA if we who love and value liberty are allowed to love and value it. If Islam wins, it will be our idiotic allegiance to political correctness that will bring us down.

This nation was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. In order for Islam to "win" the 1st amendment would have to be rescinded. That is never going to happen.

Love ya Deri, but you completely missed the point I was attempting to make.

I did?

What did I miss?

Oh, and I love you too, Foxy!

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The one goal of Islam is to bring the world under the control of Allah and subject to his authority and laws. And to fail to recognize/acknowledge/teach that because of political correctness can and will make the USA more and more vulnerable to its relentless push to put us and the rest of the world under its control. They don't care how long it takes or what they have to do to accomplish it. They have unlimited time. For now, in order to receive their expected rewards, they only have to obey the directives whether peaceful or militant.

 

[Rikurzhen]

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Exactly right and not just because this sounds good but because we have empirical evidence from around the world that this is what happens as the percentage of Muslims in a population grows.

We can see a parallel in the Asian-American declining out-marriage rate. As the proportion of Asians in our population grows they have more opportunity to find an Asian mate:

And yes, the statistics back up that anecdotal evidence. C.N. Le, a professor of sociology at University of Massachusetts–Amherst, has done a remarkably in-depth analysis of Asian American intermarriage and outmarriage statistics and made it available on his public blog, Asian-Nation.org. His research has found that since 2006, the frequency of inter-Asian marriage has risen by more than 8% among all Asian Americans, and over 15% among Asians raised in the U.S.

This trend actually points to a much better explanation for declining interracial marriage rates among Asian Americans than the Times’s “back to our roots” rationale: More Asians are marrying Asians because there are more of them around.

“Growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood in suburban New Jersey, the only Asian girls I was exposed to were my parents’ friends’ daughters, and I never had any interest in them,” says Matthew Cha, a Korean American consultant who met his wife while working in Seoul. “All my girlfriends were white because that’s what was available to me.”

Similarly, Perry Manadee, a Thai American engineer who grew up in the Detroit area and who’s now married to a fellow Thai American, says that he also dated non-Asians “not necessarily by choice or desire, but due to the fact that the Asian American dating pool in Michigan was quite small,” he says.
​

It would be a mistake for people to look at their Muslim friends and ignore what has happened elsewhere in the world as Muslim populations grew and come to believe that American Muslims won't follow the same path.

 

[Foxfyre]

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Exactly right and not just because this sounds good but because we have empirical evidence from around the world that this is what happens as the percentage of Muslims in a population grows.

We can see a parallel in the Asian-American declining out-marriage rate. As the proportion of Asians in our population grows they have more opportunity to find an Asian mate:

And yes, the statistics back up that anecdotal evidence. C.N. Le, a professor of sociology at University of Massachusetts–Amherst, has done a remarkably in-depth analysis of Asian American intermarriage and outmarriage statistics and made it available on his public blog, Asian-Nation.org. His research has found that since 2006, the frequency of inter-Asian marriage has risen by more than 8% among all Asian Americans, and over 15% among Asians raised in the U.S.

This trend actually points to a much better explanation for declining interracial marriage rates among Asian Americans than the Times’s “back to our roots” rationale: More Asians are marrying Asians because there are more of them around.

“Growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood in suburban New Jersey, the only Asian girls I was exposed to were my parents’ friends’ daughters, and I never had any interest in them,” says Matthew Cha, a Korean American consultant who met his wife while working in Seoul. “All my girlfriends were white because that’s what was available to me.”

Similarly, Perry Manadee, a Thai American engineer who grew up in the Detroit area and who’s now married to a fellow Thai American, says that he also dated non-Asians “not necessarily by choice or desire, but due to the fact that the Asian American dating pool in Michigan was quite small,” he says.
​

It would be a mistake for people to look at their Muslim friends and ignore what has happened elsewhere in the world as Muslim populations grew and come to believe that American Muslims won't follow the same path.

Asians, however, are overall pretty much a live and let live people here in the USA. Certainly I have not felt the same social and political correctness police pressures to accommodate Asians or Asian religions or customs or show Asians special deference. The President doesn't give grand sounding speeches about Asians or Asian culture/religion or Asian contributions to American and the world. He does so often when it comes to Islam. And I have never felt that Asian American citizens have any personal agenda other than to be Americans and benefit from the blessings that offers.

Nor have I read of any social or political problems developing due to Asian populations in any non-Asian country.

Conversely, almost every European country with a Muslim population of any size is reporting problems. Marseille in France has an estimated 25 to 40 percent Muslim population and was recently rated the most dangerous city in Europe. In Denmark Muslims who obtained a majority on a city council forced the cancellation of recent traditional Christmas displays even while spending lavishly on the Islamic Eid celebration marking the end of Ramadan. Converting Denmark into a Muslim Country The U.K. is increasingly pressured to make concessions for Shariah law in Muslim communities. Issues in Spain, Italy and other nations keep making the news though the mainstream media continues to downplay a lot of it. There was an interesting and comprehensive long essay on the topic in of all places The Huffington Post a few years ago: The Big Muslim Problem

The problem isn't Islam per se. The problem is being so foolish, magnanimous, gullible, and politically correct to allow Islam to take control because then anybody who isn't Muslim, and even many Muslims, are screwed.

 

[Rikurzhen]

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Exactly right and not just because this sounds good but because we have empirical evidence from around the world that this is what happens as the percentage of Muslims in a population grows.

We can see a parallel in the Asian-American declining out-marriage rate. As the proportion of Asians in our population grows they have more opportunity to find an Asian mate:

And yes, the statistics back up that anecdotal evidence. C.N. Le, a professor of sociology at University of Massachusetts–Amherst, has done a remarkably in-depth analysis of Asian American intermarriage and outmarriage statistics and made it available on his public blog, Asian-Nation.org. His research has found that since 2006, the frequency of inter-Asian marriage has risen by more than 8% among all Asian Americans, and over 15% among Asians raised in the U.S.

This trend actually points to a much better explanation for declining interracial marriage rates among Asian Americans than the Times’s “back to our roots” rationale: More Asians are marrying Asians because there are more of them around.

“Growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood in suburban New Jersey, the only Asian girls I was exposed to were my parents’ friends’ daughters, and I never had any interest in them,” says Matthew Cha, a Korean American consultant who met his wife while working in Seoul. “All my girlfriends were white because that’s what was available to me.”

Similarly, Perry Manadee, a Thai American engineer who grew up in the Detroit area and who’s now married to a fellow Thai American, says that he also dated non-Asians “not necessarily by choice or desire, but due to the fact that the Asian American dating pool in Michigan was quite small,” he says.
​

It would be a mistake for people to look at their Muslim friends and ignore what has happened elsewhere in the world as Muslim populations grew and come to believe that American Muslims won't follow the same path.

Asians, however, are overall pretty much a live and let live people here in the USA. Certainly I have not felt the same social and political correctness police pressures to accommodate Asians or Asian religions or customs or show Asians special deference. The President doesn't give grand sounding speeches about Asians or Asian culture/religion or Asian contributions to American and the world. He does so often when it comes to Islam. And I have never felt that Asian American citizens have any personal agenda other than to be Americans and benefit from the blessings that offers.

Nor have I read of any social or political problems developing due to Asian populations in any non-Asian country.

I apologize for not making my point more clearly. I'm not saying that Asian-Americans are imposing on Americans, my point is to show how their behavior changed as their proportion of the population increased, just as we've seen around the world with Muslim populations. When Asians were a small presence in America they had very high out-marriage rates. As Asian communities grow in size, the out-marriage phenomenon is decreasing in power. When Muslims are small in number in America, and elsewhere, they are friendly and identify with Americans and as their numbers grow, then their behavior changes, just as it has around the world in other societies.

Conversely, almost every European country with a Muslim population of any size is reporting problems. Marseille in France has an estimated 25 to 40 percent Muslim population and was recently rated the most dangerous city in Europe. In Denmark Muslims who obtained a majority on a city council forced the cancellation of recent traditional Christmas displays even while spending lavishly on the Islamic Eid celebration marking the end of Ramadan. Converting Denmark into a Muslim Country The U.K. is increasingly pressured to make concessions for Shariah law in Muslim communities. Issues in Spain, Italy and other nations keep making the news though the mainstream media continues to downplay a lot of it. There was an interesting and comprehensive long essay on the topic in of all places The Huffington Post a few years ago: The Big Muslim Problem

Exactly. I was trying to illustrate this point - behavior changes as numbers increase.

The problem isn't Islam per se. The problem is being so foolish, magnanimous, gullible, and politically correct to allow Islam to take control because then anybody who isn't Muslim, and even many Muslims, are screwed.

No, the problem is Islam, this is what Islam mandates. The problem is also our system gives everyone an equal vote, so unless we're careful about whom we import we will find ourselves being changed. One Muslim votes cancels out your vote. Another Muslom votes cancels out my vote. Now add idiot leftists who appease multicultural demands because they're suffering from white guilt and you have the recipe for disaster.

 

[Picaro]

All we need to know about ISIS is that when their money dries up all the so-called 'foreign jihadists' will go back home or on to another gang that will pay them and provide looting opportunities. Dumbass Euros keep paying ransoms to keep them in business, and don't give a damn who else gets killed by these gangsters and extortionists. Make it cost them more to pay off these thugs and they will stop funding them, they go away to another racket.

 

[Mineva]

Big part of these informations have been serviced by media and Usa government. Why I have to accept these things as "fact" ? Will you accept everything as fact written in "Al jazeera" or any other muslim news agency ?

 

[mudwhistle]

ISIS is all faked by Fox News.

 

[flacaltenn]

As I was skimming, I happened to catch the last line of someone's post....I think it was Rik's.....that said, "there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim."


And that folks, is at the heart of this debate I've had with my friends forever.

I think we should drill down into THAT discussion.

Because that is what we're really trying to figure out. I believe there is such a thing as moderate Muslims, and plenty of them. Of course you can drive an aircraft carrier through how wide the interpretation of the word, "moderate" is, but I'd like to see discussion of that.


Rik perhaps you can start with your definition of moderate and extreme so we can talk apples to apples.

By far the largest group of Muslims are moderates. They are not conspiring against the west. They are not sewing suicide vests. They are not even reading the verses in the Quaran that keep Pastor Rikurzhen awake all night long afraid that they will jump out from under his bed and cut off his head.

Instead they are just ordinary people with jobs, families and bills to pay. They probably care way more about how their kids are doing in school than they do about ISIS.

Only a fool makes an utterly absurd and baseless allegation that "there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim."

Our best friends are Muslims (Husband and Wife) and they are the nicest people we have ever been around. We go out to dinner with them to expensive restaurants and they insists on always paying. I have to grab the check immediately because I know what they'll do They invite us to dinner and make homemade Moroccan food for us, they ALWAYS offer to help us out (drive to airport, pick up this or that if we need it), are genuinely interested in our lives etc. They are just really solid friends. During Ramadan we broke the fast with them at their home (after me and my girlfriend decided to try the fast for a day) and it was an amazing experience. It was like having Thanksgiving Dinner with family. No prayers, ceremonies or anything. Just a great dinner with friends.

I can count on one hand the friends that would literally give the shirt off their backs if we needed it and they are 2 of them. We could count on them for anything and vice versa.

There are plenty of spectacular Muslims out there. I'm sure my experience isn't rare.

I'm sure they are nice people but here's the problem. When push comes to shove, and it will, what will they do? Picture Nazi Germany because ISIS in pretty much like the Nazi's. Many Germans knew nice Jews too and liked them and yet turned a blind eye to either save themselves or because they believed in the ultimate goal. The Ultimate goal with ISIS is to have the entire world be Muslim. Your friends might not agree with the method to make the entire world Muslim but would they help you if it meant their own lives? In their mind would they choose you, who ISIS are going to be portrayed as an enemy of Allah for not converting or are they going to pick Allah even if you have to die?

ISIS is not an existential threat to the whole world. It is not even a existential threat to the middle east.

ISIS is a bunch of crazy religious zealots with guns who will die for their cause.

The problem is ensuring that they are the only ones who end up dying.

Yep.. That's roughly why 2 years after Al Queda declared war on the United States -- most of us had no idea of the threat they posed. And THEY didn't have tanks and land. Just a few caves and sat phones.

Stupid to repeat that mistake --- dontcha think? That's not endorsement for the hare-brained reflexes our idiots in charge are making. But I would CERTAINLY declare war right back at them. And make CERTAIN that we protect this country from attacks. We should help folks with a recognized will and ability to govern that ASK US to help.. Like the Kurds. Shuffling chairs in Baghdad ain't gonna make them a democracy. Arabs don't have elections and democracies. They fight and die for power until a tyrant takes control..

 

[Derideo_Te]

I haven't read the entire thread but read the last couple of pages.

The fact is that Muslim people can certainly be fun, engaging, personal, and thoughtful people. Most of those we know personally are all of that as well as being great coworkers, neighbors, and friends. We would have their back if anybody presumed to actively disrespect or harm them in any way.

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

I agree because ordinary Christians provide no interference when it comes to militant Christians. Such is the nature of all religions. You support your own because you share the same beliefs. That some of your fellow believers are more militant than others goes with the territory. And yes, it happens with Jews too.

So it isn't only Muslims who behave in this manner.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Sharia law will never be imposed here in America.

We do not have to go to war with Islam anywhere in the world. But we do need to get over the political correct nonsense that prevents us from seeing and recognizing the situation as it is. No accommodations should be made for Islam in this country any more than for any other religion, and this idiotic thing Obama has of refusing to see the dark side of Islam for what it is I think is downright dangerous.

Please provide a link to where you believe this to be happening.

Islam can't defeat the USA if we who love and value liberty are allowed to love and value it. If Islam wins, it will be our idiotic allegiance to political correctness that will bring us down.

This nation was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. In order for Islam to "win" the 1st amendment would have to be rescinded. That is never going to happen.

Love ya Deri, but you completely missed the point I was attempting to make.

I did?

What did I miss?

Oh, and I love you too, Foxy!

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The one goal of Islam is to bring the world under the control of Allah and subject to his authority and laws. And to fail to recognize/acknowledge/teach that because of political correctness can and will make the USA more and more vulnerable to its relentless push to put us and the rest of the world under its control. They don't care how long it takes or what they have to do to accomplish it. They have unlimited time. For now, in order to receive their expected rewards, they only have to obey the directives whether peaceful or militant.

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

No true! Fundamentalist extremist Islamists are a threat but the vast majority of Muslims are not extremists.

In real terms the number of extremist Islamists is actually very small. They make a lot of noise and headlines but they are actually no military threat at all to a superpower like the USA.

 

[Derideo_Te]

As I was skimming, I happened to catch the last line of someone's post....I think it was Rik's.....that said, "there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim."


And that folks, is at the heart of this debate I've had with my friends forever.

I think we should drill down into THAT discussion.

Because that is what we're really trying to figure out. I believe there is such a thing as moderate Muslims, and plenty of them. Of course you can drive an aircraft carrier through how wide the interpretation of the word, "moderate" is, but I'd like to see discussion of that.


Rik perhaps you can start with your definition of moderate and extreme so we can talk apples to apples.

By far the largest group of Muslims are moderates. They are not conspiring against the west. They are not sewing suicide vests. They are not even reading the verses in the Quaran that keep Pastor Rikurzhen awake all night long afraid that they will jump out from under his bed and cut off his head.

Instead they are just ordinary people with jobs, families and bills to pay. They probably care way more about how their kids are doing in school than they do about ISIS.

Only a fool makes an utterly absurd and baseless allegation that "there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim."

Our best friends are Muslims (Husband and Wife) and they are the nicest people we have ever been around. We go out to dinner with them to expensive restaurants and they insists on always paying. I have to grab the check immediately because I know what they'll do They invite us to dinner and make homemade Moroccan food for us, they ALWAYS offer to help us out (drive to airport, pick up this or that if we need it), are genuinely interested in our lives etc. They are just really solid friends. During Ramadan we broke the fast with them at their home (after me and my girlfriend decided to try the fast for a day) and it was an amazing experience. It was like having Thanksgiving Dinner with family. No prayers, ceremonies or anything. Just a great dinner with friends.

I can count on one hand the friends that would literally give the shirt off their backs if we needed it and they are 2 of them. We could count on them for anything and vice versa.

There are plenty of spectacular Muslims out there. I'm sure my experience isn't rare.

I'm sure they are nice people but here's the problem. When push comes to shove, and it will, what will they do? Picture Nazi Germany because ISIS in pretty much like the Nazi's. Many Germans knew nice Jews too and liked them and yet turned a blind eye to either save themselves or because they believed in the ultimate goal. The Ultimate goal with ISIS is to have the entire world be Muslim. Your friends might not agree with the method to make the entire world Muslim but would they help you if it meant their own lives? In their mind would they choose you, who ISIS are going to be portrayed as an enemy of Allah for not converting or are they going to pick Allah even if you have to die?

ISIS is not an existential threat to the whole world. It is not even a existential threat to the middle east.

ISIS is a bunch of crazy religious zealots with guns who will die for their cause.

The problem is ensuring that they are the only ones who end up dying.

Yep.. That's roughly why 2 years after Al Queda declared war on the United States -- most of us had no idea of the threat they posed. And THEY didn't have tanks and land. Just a few caves and sat phones.

Stupid to repeat that mistake --- dontcha think? That's not endorsement for the hare-brained reflexes our idiots in charge are making. But I would CERTAINLY declare war right back at them. And make CERTAIN that we protect this country from attacks. We should help folks with a recognized will and ability to govern that ASK US to help.. Like the Kurds. Shuffling chairs in Baghdad ain't gonna make them a democracy. Arabs don't have elections and democracies. They fight and die for power until a tyrant takes control..

ISIS doesn't deserve the promotion that a declaration of war would give them. That mistake was made by the prior administration when they promoted Al Queda to the undeserved status of "enemy combatants". They are nothing of the sort. They are a criminal gang, a militia of thugs who exploit religion as an excuse to murder innocents. They should be treated like criminals because that is what they really are.

 

[Iceweasel]

ISIS doesn't deserve the promotion that a declaration of war would give them. That mistake was made by the prior administration when they promoted Al Queda to the undeserved status of "enemy combatants". They are nothing of the sort. They are a criminal gang, a militia of thugs who exploit religion as an excuse to murder innocents. They should be treated like criminals because that is what they really are.

So Osama should have been prosecuted in court?

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't read the entire thread but read the last couple of pages.

The fact is that Muslim people can certainly be fun, engaging, personal, and thoughtful people. Most of those we know personally are all of that as well as being great coworkers, neighbors, and friends. We would have their back if anybody presumed to actively disrespect or harm them in any way.

At the same time you can't get around the fact that Islam is a totalitarian faith determined to control the world. As Muslims become larger minorities, they have invariably demanded more concessions for their faith and have invariably become a problem for non-Muslims who have to deal with them. Now those great coworkers, neighbors, friends may feel badly that those 'infidels' they have had such great relationships with are having problems with the larger Muslim community. They won't have our back though, and even though they might silently feel bad, they are almost certainly going to provide no interference with the militant Muslims.

I agree because ordinary Christians provide no interference when it comes to militant Christians. Such is the nature of all religions. You support your own because you share the same beliefs. That some of your fellow believers are more militant than others goes with the territory. And yes, it happens with Jews too.

So it isn't only Muslims who behave in this manner.

And once Muslims have achieved a majority, at least some of Sharia Law is imposed on all. And those same coworkers, neighbors, and friends will not object to that in any way.

Sharia law will never be imposed here in America.

We do not have to go to war with Islam anywhere in the world. But we do need to get over the political correct nonsense that prevents us from seeing and recognizing the situation as it is. No accommodations should be made for Islam in this country any more than for any other religion, and this idiotic thing Obama has of refusing to see the dark side of Islam for what it is I think is downright dangerous.

Please provide a link to where you believe this to be happening.

Islam can't defeat the USA if we who love and value liberty are allowed to love and value it. If Islam wins, it will be our idiotic allegiance to political correctness that will bring us down.

This nation was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. In order for Islam to "win" the 1st amendment would have to be rescinded. That is never going to happen.

Love ya Deri, but you completely missed the point I was attempting to make.

I did?

What did I miss?

Oh, and I love you too, Foxy!

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The one goal of Islam is to bring the world under the control of Allah and subject to his authority and laws. And to fail to recognize/acknowledge/teach that because of political correctness can and will make the USA more and more vulnerable to its relentless push to put us and the rest of the world under its control. They don't care how long it takes or what they have to do to accomplish it. They have unlimited time. For now, in order to receive their expected rewards, they only have to obey the directives whether peaceful or militant.

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

No true! Fundamentalist extremist Islamists are a threat but the vast majority of Muslims are not extremists.

In real terms the number of extremist Islamists is actually very small. They make a lot of noise and headlines but they are actually no military threat at all to a superpower like the USA.

I am not speaking of the individual Muslim. I know many that I love dearly and get along with famously. I am speaking of the religion, Islam, itself and its ultimate goal/mission. And the track record is that the non-militant Muslim may indeed not initiate or actively further the process to achieve that mission/goal, but neither does he/she resist it. You cannot point to a single nation in which Islam has achieved majority in which human rights and liberties are not infringed and oppressed if not flat out disallowed.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I agree because ordinary Christians provide no interference when it comes to militant Christians. Such is the nature of all religions. You support your own because you share the same beliefs. That some of your fellow believers are more militant than others goes with the territory. And yes, it happens with Jews too.

So it isn't only Muslims who behave in this manner.
Sharia law will never be imposed here in America.
Please provide a link to where you believe this to be happening.
This nation was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. In order for Islam to "win" the 1st amendment would have to be rescinded. That is never going to happen.

Love ya Deri, but you completely missed the point I was attempting to make.

I did?

What did I miss?

Oh, and I love you too, Foxy!

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The one goal of Islam is to bring the world under the control of Allah and subject to his authority and laws. And to fail to recognize/acknowledge/teach that because of political correctness can and will make the USA more and more vulnerable to its relentless push to put us and the rest of the world under its control. They don't care how long it takes or what they have to do to accomplish it. They have unlimited time. For now, in order to receive their expected rewards, they only have to obey the directives whether peaceful or militant.

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

No true! Fundamentalist extremist Islamists are a threat but the vast majority of Muslims are not extremists.

In real terms the number of extremist Islamists is actually very small. They make a lot of noise and headlines but they are actually no military threat at all to a superpower like the USA.

I am not speaking of the individual Muslim. I know many that I love dearly and get along with famously. I am speaking of the religion, Islam, itself and its ultimate goal/mission. And the track record is that the non-militant Muslim may indeed not initiate or actively further the process to achieve that mission/goal, but neither does he/she resist it. You cannot point to a single nation in which Islam has achieved majority in which human rights and liberties are not infringed and oppressed if not flat out disallowed.

You are trying to compare 3rd world nations to western nations. Even here in the USA civil rights are still violated on a regular basis. It would be erroneous to blame that on Christianity which what you are doing with Islam. It is a false dichotomy to equate religion to rights since neither religion advocates for human rights.

 

[Foxfyre]

Love ya Deri, but you completely missed the point I was attempting to make.

I did?

What did I miss?

Oh, and I love you too, Foxy!

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The one goal of Islam is to bring the world under the control of Allah and subject to his authority and laws. And to fail to recognize/acknowledge/teach that because of political correctness can and will make the USA more and more vulnerable to its relentless push to put us and the rest of the world under its control. They don't care how long it takes or what they have to do to accomplish it. They have unlimited time. For now, in order to receive their expected rewards, they only have to obey the directives whether peaceful or militant.

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

No true! Fundamentalist extremist Islamists are a threat but the vast majority of Muslims are not extremists.

In real terms the number of extremist Islamists is actually very small. They make a lot of noise and headlines but they are actually no military threat at all to a superpower like the USA.

I am not speaking of the individual Muslim. I know many that I love dearly and get along with famously. I am speaking of the religion, Islam, itself and its ultimate goal/mission. And the track record is that the non-militant Muslim may indeed not initiate or actively further the process to achieve that mission/goal, but neither does he/she resist it. You cannot point to a single nation in which Islam has achieved majority in which human rights and liberties are not infringed and oppressed if not flat out disallowed.

You are trying to compare 3rd world nations to western nations. Even here in the USA civil rights are still violated on a regular basis. It would be erroneous to blame that on Christianity which what you are doing with Islam. It is a false dichotomy to equate religion to rights since neither religion advocates for human rights.

I'm not comparing anything with anything. Earlier I commented on what is happening in the UK, in Belgium, in Spain, in France et al. none of which are Third World countries. As a Christian I can speak from up close and personal experience that I am about as strong on unalienable rights and liberty as any human on Earth, and there is absolutely nothing in Christian teachings that discourage or criticize me for that, so that straw man you can put back on the shelf. The fact that civil rights are violated here is irrelevant to the point being made that seems to have gone sailing right over your head.

I'm trusting that many reading the thread do understand the point.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I did?

What did I miss?

Oh, and I love you too, Foxy!

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The one goal of Islam is to bring the world under the control of Allah and subject to his authority and laws. And to fail to recognize/acknowledge/teach that because of political correctness can and will make the USA more and more vulnerable to its relentless push to put us and the rest of the world under its control. They don't care how long it takes or what they have to do to accomplish it. They have unlimited time. For now, in order to receive their expected rewards, they only have to obey the directives whether peaceful or militant.

My point is simply that Islam, wherever it exists and by whatever name it calls itself, and regardless of how great its people are, is dangerous to human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

No true! Fundamentalist extremist Islamists are a threat but the vast majority of Muslims are not extremists.

In real terms the number of extremist Islamists is actually very small. They make a lot of noise and headlines but they are actually no military threat at all to a superpower like the USA.

I am not speaking of the individual Muslim. I know many that I love dearly and get along with famously. I am speaking of the religion, Islam, itself and its ultimate goal/mission. And the track record is that the non-militant Muslim may indeed not initiate or actively further the process to achieve that mission/goal, but neither does he/she resist it. You cannot point to a single nation in which Islam has achieved majority in which human rights and liberties are not infringed and oppressed if not flat out disallowed.

You are trying to compare 3rd world nations to western nations. Even here in the USA civil rights are still violated on a regular basis. It would be erroneous to blame that on Christianity which what you are doing with Islam. It is a false dichotomy to equate religion to rights since neither religion advocates for human rights.

I'm not comparing anything with anything. Earlier I commented on what is happening in the UK, in Belgium, in Spain, in France et al. none of which are Third World countries. As a Christian I can speak from up close and personal experience that I am about as strong on unalienable rights and liberty as any human on Earth, and there is absolutely nothing in Christian teachings that discourage or criticize me for that, so that straw man you can put back on the shelf. The fact that civil rights are violated here is irrelevant to the point being made that seems to have gone sailing right over your head.

I'm trusting that many reading the thread do understand the point.

This is what you actually said that I responded to;

You cannot point to a single nation in which Islam has achieved majority in which human rights and liberties are not infringed and oppressed if not flat out disallowed.

You were alleging that Islam was responsible for the infringement and oppression of human rights.

If anyone created a strawman that would be you. I corrected your mistake by pointing out the the infringement and oppression of human rights is common in 3rd world nations irrespective of their religion.

Furthermore I pointed out that infringement of human rights occurs right here in the USA and that it would be fallacious to blame Christianity.

Finally religions are not about supporting individual rights. The bible endorses slavery, it stomps on freedom of expression and denies equal rights for all.

ISIS is not Islam any more than Westboro Baptist is Christian. Both are abominations that exploit religion for their hateful agenda.