Here's 2 statue ideas that few will like

[frigidweirdo]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

 

[Crixus]

I say we replace the Confederate statues with new ones depicting Confederate figures and Civil Rights figures performing sex acts on each other. Nothing would bring both sides together like a statue of Stonewall Jackson and Martin Luther King Jr. giving each other handjobs.

It would be stolen.

 

[Crixus]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

Really? When did they take Chairmen Mao down?

 

[Mac1958]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

What I'm trying to do is find a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

At some point, we need to start trying to improve this situation instead of screaming, that's all.
.

 

[Mac1958]

I say we replace the Confederate statues with new ones depicting Confederate figures and Civil Rights figures performing sex acts on each other. Nothing would bring both sides together like a statue of Stonewall Jackson and Martin Luther King Jr. giving each other handjobs.

We're FINALLY thinking out of the box here!
.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

What I'm trying to do is find a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

At some point, we need to start trying to improve this situation instead of screaming, that's all.
.

Yes, but under the current system it won't happen, because the current system is designed to increase screaming and reduce solutions to problems that haven't been looked at in the first place.

The US is on the way down, and every day it gets worse. Trump is a massive nail in that coffin

 

[Mac1958]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

What I'm trying to do is find a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

At some point, we need to start trying to improve this situation instead of screaming, that's all.
.

Yes, but under the current system it won't happen, because the current system is designed to increase screaming and reduce solutions to problems that haven't been looked at in the first place.

The US is on the way down, and every day it gets worse. Trump is a massive nail in that coffin

I wish I could disagree with that.
.

 

[NightFox]

Silly passive aggressive little man.I can get on board with either of those ideas. They are reasonable.

Ol' Mac can get the zealots to insult and agree with him at the same time.
.

Yep I agree Mac ....

.... ya prick.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Silly passive aggressive little man.I can get on board with either of those ideas. They are reasonable.

Ol' Mac can get the zealots to insult and agree with him at the same time.

I really am special. And they really can't help themselves.
.

You insulted all fair minded people with the passive aggressive manner in which you presented the question. You probably realize this after having been informed. A man would have been contrite and simply acknowledged our agreement.

Instead, you went to that shit well one more time. Congrats.

 

[Crixus]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

What I'm trying to do is find a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

At some point, we need to start trying to improve this situation instead of screaming, that's all.
.

First and foremost is education and employment. Along with teaching about accountability. It's not a confederate generals fault a black dude dropped out of school or can't get a job.

 

[sartre play]

The statues are history & art. don't care if the people are horrible or good. destroying art & history is bad. if city or town don't want them, yes move, sell, never destroy. to silly are they going to want to destroy the countless oil paintings. to PC for me.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

What I'm trying to do is find a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

At some point, we need to start trying to improve this situation instead of screaming, that's all.
.

First and foremost is education and employment. Along with teaching about accountability. It's not a confederate generals fault a black dude dropped out of school or can't get a job.

Black employment is up 50%, black on black crime is down nearly 75% since the removal of Robert E. Lee at Lee Circle. Thanks Mitch!!

 

[JoeB131]

Oh and while we are at it, First Nations could demand that any memorial to Sherman (hero of the Union) be busted up and turned to dust for his Indian Wars.

That UNION hero was the man who came up with "the only good Indian is a dead Indian".

Actually that was Sheridan, not Sherman, and it's not considered historically reliable that he actually said that.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Do you know what memorials look like for the victims of evil people? They don't usually look like people.

I've seen plenty of them. I've been to concentration camps with pretty weird kind of memorials, I saw one for a Polish guy who set himself on fire, they don't show the person.

I've also seen the Mao statues in China, which are still there even though he killed 30 million people. Up to keep the legitimacy of the regime and nothing more.

People who have statues of themselves usually did something, if it was bad, most people are tearing them down.

What I'm trying to do is find a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

At some point, we need to start trying to improve this situation instead of screaming, that's all.
.

First and foremost is education and employment. Along with teaching about accountability. It's not a confederate generals fault a black dude dropped out of school or can't get a job.

Black employment is up 50%, black on black crime is down nearly 75% since the removal of Robert E. Lee at Lee Circle. Thanks Mitch!!

So, employment is the only thing that matters? You might be unequal, you might have no rights, but hey BOY, you have a job (as a slave) so be HAPPY or I'll whip your sorry ass back to whichever part of Africa you ain't from.

 

[JoeB131]

Was Nathan Forrest evil or a product of the times? Most don't even know without google what it actually was that MADE him such a controversy. Hint for the ignorant, look up Fort Pillow. In my elementary school days we were tought that in 4th grade. Like it or not, he is our history. Here is a little article on the guy. I'll copy and past the last part. Read it carefully.

so your argument is that the horrible thing he did at Fort Pillow is overshadowed by the awful thing he did after the war? (Founding the Klan)

Yes, he is our history. So are Joseph McCarthy and a lot of other truly awful people.

Are there a bunch of statues up to McCarthy? Nope. The only reason why we know of him at all is "McCarthysm" is attached to that crazy period in the 1950's when we all thought there were Commies under our beds.

 

[BlindBoo]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

I actually thought about the idea of moving the statures to museums.

the problem I have is the concept of honoring people who committed treason to fight against their government for the right to own people.

do we honor that?

would you say the same thing if it was a statute of Adolph Eichmann?

They already had the right to own people. Lincoln made it clear that he was not trying to take the South's slaves. They fought for the right to leave the Union.

But the real reason most of these statues were erected was not to honor anyone but to let the so called "mud people" (and all the non-racist people) know the racist pricks was back in charge.

They were and still are fascist to the core.....

 

[Crixus]

Was Nathan Forrest evil or a product of the times? Most don't even know without google what it actually was that MADE him such a controversy. Hint for the ignorant, look up Fort Pillow. In my elementary school days we were tought that in 4th grade. Like it or not, he is our history. Here is a little article on the guy. I'll copy and past the last part. Read it carefully.

so your argument is that the horrible thing he did at Fort Pillow is overshadowed by the awful thing he did after the war? (Founding the Klan)

Yes, he is our history. So are Joseph McCarthy and a lot of other truly awful people.

Are there a bunch of statues up to McCarthy? Nope. The only reason why we know of him at all is "McCarthysm" is attached to that crazy period in the 1950's when we all thought there were Commies under our beds.

No. Had you been a soldier under his command at Ft. Pillow you would have fixed your bayonet. Just like now shit happens. Read up on how George Washington felt with his Hessian mercinarey problem during the American revolution. Or take a look at George Williams Clark. Yes, I believe he has a statue as well. By today's standards he as well as Washington would have been put on trial for war crimes. All through the "bloody sevens" there was more atrocities committed then they teach. Good cause, really rough folks fighting it. Not saying it's cool, but it happened.



And despite what I was told growing up, commies never tried to get me.

 

[JoeB131]

No. Had you been a soldier under his command at Ft. Pillow you would have fixed your bayonet. Just like now shit happens. Read up on how George Washington felt with his Hessian mercinarey problem during the American revolution. Or take a look at George Williams Clark. Yes, I believe he has a statue as well. By today's standards he as well as Washington would have been put on trial for war crimes. All through the "bloody sevens" there was more atrocities committed then they teach. Good cause, really rough folks fighting it. Not saying it's cool, but it happened.

Okay, dude, a couple of issues here.

First, atrocities were relatively rare in the War of Independence on either side.

Second, the soldiers who followed Forrest's orders to slaughter captured black soldiers at Ft. Pillow WERE guilty of war crimes. But those soldiers were black so they didn't punish them or Forrest like they did the guy who was in charge of the Andersonville Prison camp.

Forrest does not deserve a statue. Neither do any of the other generals or politicians who fought for the Confederacy. The average soldiers, that's an issue you can debate. My own opinion is, take those down, too, because it's insulting to black people to leave them up.

 

[Crixus]

No. Had you been a soldier under his command at Ft. Pillow you would have fixed your bayonet. Just like now shit happens. Read up on how George Washington felt with his Hessian mercinarey problem during the American revolution. Or take a look at George Williams Clark. Yes, I believe he has a statue as well. By today's standards he as well as Washington would have been put on trial for war crimes. All through the "bloody sevens" there was more atrocities committed then they teach. Good cause, really rough folks fighting it. Not saying it's cool, but it happened.

Okay, dude, a couple of issues here.

First, atrocities were relatively rare in the War of Independence on either side.

Second, the soldiers who followed Forrest's orders to slaughter captured black soldiers at Ft. Pillow WERE guilty of war crimes. But those soldiers were black so they didn't punish them or Forrest like they did the guy who was in charge of the Andersonville Prison camp.

Forrest does not deserve a statue. Neither do any of the other generals or politicians who fought for the Confederacy. The average soldiers, that's an issue you can debate. My own opinion is, take those down, too, because it's insulting to black people to leave them up.

I'll shit. If that were the case then we could just sweep a whole bunch more atrocities under the same rug. By your reasoning, if one had an issue with the Indian wars we could justify the whole plague blanket thing, not to mention all the other little armed conflicts we have participated in since America has been America. Read George Washingtons auto biography. It describes the incident, who was involved and all that.As for the blacks at Ft. Pillow, the blacks were dehumanized. It was a war. Look, if I was in Afghanistan and I wanted some Haji shits to surrender and I rounded up two of their neighbors, got them on their knees and bashed their heads in front of the bad guys to make them come out I'm pretty sure I would be on the news as a war criminal. Takes were just different.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.

I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:

1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.

2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.

Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.

Very rational, but you are missing what the goal of the democrats is; which is to eradicate the history of the USA.