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Obviously, I agree with you that we can all better spend our energy than protesting and fighting over a guy on a horse statues.
The maniacs didn't start this one though. The white nationalists did. The people of Charlottesville have every right to vote to rid itself of a statue they no longer want. This was no one else's business. Enter Kessler's crew. Now it's a big thing that is being discussed all over social media and the press. Dumb waste of energy on both sides.
Wow, I hadn't heard that, thanks.I believe the statues being removed are being sold to museums or private owners who will treat them with respect. That's as it should be.
The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.
Well, I guess this depends on one's goal. If it's to "beat" the other "side", no one should give an inch on anything, ever.The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.
Nice ideas but moving it to a new location will just be caving to lunatics. Hell's bells a County Commissioner in Georgia demanded that Civil War Museum remove the Confederate freaking flag.
The curator closed the museum rather than cave to the maniacs.
I don't give a good GD that people are offended by Confederate statues. If you are in the South you could be demanding that Sherman, Sheridan and Grant should have their statues and memorials smashed to smithereens for the war crimes committed by the Union with their scorched earth policy.
Oh and while we are at it, First Nations could demand that any memorial to Sherman (hero of the Union) be busted up and turned to dust for his Indian Wars.
That UNION hero was the man who came up with "the only good Indian is a dead Indian".
See how the ball will roll if we do not stop these maniacs in their tracks right now?
Obviously, I agree with you that we can all better spend our energy than protesting and fighting over a guy on a horse statues.some of that history was very darkThe fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.
I think you will find, those who feel the need to erase history have a very dark agenda.
Hell's bells most of our history is very dark but we rose above it but it is crucial to learn and study it to not repeat the mistakes of the past. While the left wing loons here are still going on about what happened 150 years ago there are people being traded as slaves as we speak in open air markets in Libya.
I prefer to concentrate my efforts on human rights abuses in the here and now. Not on spending a bloody fortune campaigning against statues. It would be nice and oh so special if more maniac progressives could spend some time working to end real injustice in the world.
Not perceived injustice in the US.
The maniacs didn't start this one though. The white nationalists did. The people of Charlottesville have every right to vote to rid itself of a statue they no longer want. This was no one else's business. Enter Kessler's crew. Now it's a big thing that is being discussed all over social media and the press. Dumb waste of energy on both sides.
The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
You see, once again, you start the discussion out on a false premise and then argue the shit out of the false premise.
Nobody ever has said, "We need to pretend the Civil War didn't happen". Nobody is suggesting expunging it from the History Books. or anything like that. If anything, we would like to see it more extensively taught.
So let's continue on...
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
The problem with this is that when you leave up a big old statue of Nathan Forrest, and then put a little plaque next to it that says, "Oh, yeah, and he also murdered black POW's during the war and founded the KKK after the war" the very fact that you are immortalizing him in Bronze takes away from any * you put next to him.
Nathan Forrest was a truly evil man who did truly evil things. He doesn't deserve a statue with a disclaimer under it.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
And how do you do that, exactly. How does giving Nathan Forest a statue which you'll move to some Disneyfied Theme Park really remember the people he killed?
Here's the real problem to Confederate Statues... they allow the South to look back at what they did like it was something noble or heroic, when in fact, they did something that was really terrible.
The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
You see, once again, you start the discussion out on a false premise and then argue the shit out of the false premise.
Nobody ever has said, "We need to pretend the Civil War didn't happen". Nobody is suggesting expunging it from the History Books. or anything like that. If anything, we would like to see it more extensively taught.
So let's continue on...
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
The problem with this is that when you leave up a big old statue of Nathan Forrest, and then put a little plaque next to it that says, "Oh, yeah, and he also murdered black POW's during the war and founded the KKK after the war" the very fact that you are immortalizing him in Bronze takes away from any * you put next to him.
Nathan Forrest was a truly evil man who did truly evil things. He doesn't deserve a statue with a disclaimer under it.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
And how do you do that, exactly. How does giving Nathan Forest a statue which you'll move to some Disneyfied Theme Park really remember the people he killed?
Here's the real problem to Confederate Statues... they allow the South to look back at what they did like it was something noble or heroic, when in fact, they did something that was really terrible.
Was Nathan Forrest evil or a product of the times? Most don't even know without google what it actually was that MADE him such a controversy. Hint for the ignorant, look up Fort Pillow. In my elementary school days we were tought that in 4th grade. Like it or not, he is our history. Here is a little article on the guy. I'll copy and past the last part. Read it carefully.
After the war, Forrest is best known as having been a prominent figure in the foundation of the Ku Klux Klan, a group composed of mostly Confederate veterans committed to violent intimidation of blacks, northerners and republicans. He was “Grand Wizard” until he ordered the dissolution of the organization in 1869. Forrest died of diabetes in Memphis on October 29, 1877
Well no, contrary to what some people might say, I'm not a big fan of the Third Reich, as snappy as some of their outfits may have been.The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.
I actually thought about the idea of moving the statures to museums.
the problem I have is the concept of honoring people who committed treason to fight against their government for the right to own people.
do we honor that?
would you say the same thing if it was a statute of Adolph Eichmann?
The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.
it's not about pretending these people didn't exist.
Ol' Mac can get the zealots to insult and agree with him at the same time.Silly passive aggressive little man.I can get on board with either of those ideas. They are reasonable.
Well no, contrary to what some people might say, I'm not a big fan of the Third Reich, as snappy as some of their outfits may have been.The fact remains, for better or worse, the Civil War and its various characters represent a terribly important part of this country's history, and pretending none of it existed is simply trying to put a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
I realize the primary goal nowadays is simply to "beat" the other "side" and not actually improve things, but I thought I'd toss out a couple of "ideas" (in other words, stuff that won't be found on winger websites) on addressing this national statue catastrophe:
1. Don't tear it down, add to it.
Leverage the existence of these statues to tell the whole story about the individual depicted. If they were a slave-owner, say so. If they fought for slavery, say so. Add a new piece that tells the whole story so that we can all agree (oh no!) on who and what this person was, and the role they played in this country's history.
2. Move it to something new.
So that we don't forget the horrors of slavery and the presence of those who supported it, as well as the sacrifices made in the Civil War, let's create or add to areas that reflect on the Civil War. Rather than pretend these people never existed, let's move the statues to one area that tells the story of our painful growth as a nation.
Thoughts? Name-calling? Insults?
.
I actually thought about the idea of moving the statures to museums.
the problem I have is the concept of honoring people who committed treason to fight against their government for the right to own people.
do we honor that?
would you say the same thing if it was a statute of Adolph Eichmann?
We're only honoring a statue if that's what we choose to do. This would be a statement that Americans could make together, that we're going to agree to view the subject of a statue in a more honest, comprehensive way.
.
Yes! All the better. I'd rather shine a light on this kind of thing than hide it or destroy it.isn't it more the case that the statues were put up post-reconstruction by people who still felt disconnected from their country and resented being forced to live among free blacks and later to desegregate...
Obviously, I agree with you that we can all better spend our energy than protesting and fighting over a guy on a horse statues.
The maniacs didn't start this one though. The white nationalists did. The people of Charlottesville have every right to vote to rid itself of a statue they no longer want. This was no one else's business. Enter Kessler's crew. Now it's a big thing that is being discussed all over social media and the press. Dumb waste of energy on both sides.
Just out of curiosity, WTF is a "white nationalist"?
Then Obama erased his red lines and ran away like a dog with his tail between his legs.
Yes! All the better. I'd rather shine a light on this kind of thing than hide it or destroy it.isn't it more the case that the statues were put up post-reconstruction by people who still felt disconnected from their country and resented being forced to live among free blacks and later to desegregate...
.
Well, one of my ideas includes adding information to the site of the statue, but I can understand that.Yes! All the better. I'd rather shine a light on this kind of thing than hide it or destroy it.isn't it more the case that the statues were put up post-reconstruction by people who still felt disconnected from their country and resented being forced to live among free blacks and later to desegregate...
.
to me leaving the statues where they are celebrates them. just how I feel. of course, it isn't my battle, I would think the people who are the subject of that battle would have more to say on the subject.
Yes! All the better. I'd rather shine a light on this kind of thing than hide it or destroy it.isn't it more the case that the statues were put up post-reconstruction by people who still felt disconnected from their country and resented being forced to live among free blacks and later to desegregate...
.
to me leaving the statues where they are celebrates them. just how I feel. of course, it isn't my battle, I would think the people who are the subject of that battle would have more to say on the subject.
