Help the Black community

[Sactowndog]

Why do you feel its an obsession? What do you mean by false way of thinking? I think of myself as a Black man in a society programmed to look down on me in one way or another. Until you can experience that I don't think you can comprehend my daily existence enough to say its false. I dont think you get that I don't have a realistic choice except to look at life from the perspective of me being a Black man. I cant change my last name, dress up differently, move to another city to start over, or alter my skin color in anyway. Its the first thing people see about me before I open my mouth. I'm already prejudged unless there is a conscious effort on that strangers part not to do it. To say that is not reality is naive. I dont understand your line about good whites. What do you mean by them being fooled? My white friends know exactly how I feel and they are still my friends.

Do they really know how you feel ? If so would they still be your friends ? One just wonders.

Good whites ? Yes I refer to the good whites in representation of, because I don't represent the bad whites or any other bad, and this especially in regards to any of their skin colors in life. I always look a little bit deeper than a mans skin color, and I mean always.

Yes they know exactly how I feel. I make no bones about my position. If someone doesnt understand my stance then I cant do much about that. My friends have actually thanked me for pointing out things they couldn't see simply because they were white. Think of it like this. You and I are walking down a dirt road. Every now and then I say ouch. You ask me why I keep doing that and I say its because of the rocks in the road. You remark you cant feel them and I point out its because i'm walking barefoot and you have on shoes.

You sound like the rare person who actually looks deeper than skin color. It takes a determined focused individual to do that even if color is not the issue. A mentor of mine once told me that there are three versions of reality. My view, your view, and the video tapes view. Throw color in that mix and you can get 2 starkly different points of view from the human element.

You are intelligent and articulate. Sadly you are also completely crippled because you assume all people judge you first by the color of your skin. You are exhibit A of why more otherwise highly qualified young black men don't progress. They blame it on racism and in a sense they are correct. What they don't see is it is their own racism holding them back not the racism of others.

 

[Asclepias]

We don't talk about it at all. The points are self evident and the challanges don't need to be discussed. Discussing it only reinforces the belief it is an obstacle that cant he overcome. That point is the point you are missing. The only person on this board focused on th challanges of your blackness is you! The rest of us only care what kind of person you are not the color of your skin. Have some faith that others will correct the negative behaviors of others if you don't get in the way by being an ass.

Oh by the way, the consequences of being very short are as significant if not more significant than being black.

You can somewhat get away with that in his case. Here is the problem. What happens when that butt wipe comes up to him and starts downgrading him because of his dis-abilities? What if there is a national ad campaign that begins portraying his particular issues in a negative light? That wont happen in his case for the most part but if it did you now have a situation where the images in his mind are changed about his self worth and could be destroyed by the images he sees everyday on TV. Are you following me on this?

I will teach him what is already learning to do which is disarm the butt wipe with humor and class. (BTW the same thing that happens in Black/Black or White/White interactions and happens all the time in the locker room). So what if their is a national campaign? It reflects more poorly on the advertiser than him. Do you really think the majority of us are so stupid that we can't discern others being idiots...

Their is only one image they need to hold and that is if they treat all people with trust and respect and they focus on accepting and improving their faults the rest will work out. Are there idiots out there who will act derogatorily in a racist (or whatever anti short is called) manner. Certainly. But that is only an opportunity to demonstrate to the rest of us that you are a class individual with the social skills to deal with it gracefully. Are you following me?

BTW thanks for the frank discussion.

I think you are missing my point but its understandable. For centuries Blacks have had a "national campaign" directed against them to support first the slave trade, then later to preserve the southern way of life. We were portrayed as property, ignorant, and inferior. We were lied to about our history in Africa. We were even told we were better off as slaves instead of being in the jungle. The clincher? We were given a god that looked shockingly like the people doing the oppressing. The best method to enslave a society is to take their God and make that God look like the oppressor. That way the oppression looks preordained and sanctioned by God. Not only did it do a mind job on Blacks but it also did a number on other ethnicities and the way they viewed themselves in relation to Black people.

This programming continues to this day. Images are how the mind works and processes information. Thats why what we see on TV has more effect than what we read. Thats how marketers get you buying their products. Its burned into your subconscious to think of the Windows OS when someone mentions a computer. That stuff is hard to erase even when you are aware of it. Imagine being brainwashed and teaching your children what you have been brainwashed to believe generation after generation because you were unaware of it. This is where we are at. People are starting to wake up but its going to be a long haul. So you see now why I first have to inoculate then teach?

 

[beagle9]

You can somewhat get away with that in his case. Here is the problem. What happens when that butt wipe comes up to him and starts downgrading him because of his dis-abilities? What if there is a national ad campaign that begins portraying his particular issues in a negative light? That wont happen in his case for the most part but if it did you now have a situation where the images in his mind are changed about his self worth and could be destroyed by the images he sees everyday on TV. Are you following me on this?

I will teach him what is already learning to do which is disarm the butt wipe with humor and class. (BTW the same thing that happens in Black/Black or White/White interactions and happens all the time in the locker room). So what if their is a national campaign? It reflects more poorly on the advertiser than him. Do you really think the majority of us are so stupid that we can't discern others being idiots...

Their is only one image they need to hold and that is if they treat all people with trust and respect and they focus on accepting and improving their faults the rest will work out. Are there idiots out there who will act derogatorily in a racist (or whatever anti short is called) manner. Certainly. But that is only an opportunity to demonstrate to the rest of us that you are a class individual with the social skills to deal with it gracefully. Are you following me?

BTW thanks for the frank discussion.

I think you are missing my point but its understandable. For centuries Blacks have had a "national campaign" directed against them to support first the slave trade, then later to preserve the southern way of life. We were portrayed as property, ignorant, and inferior. We were lied to about our history in Africa. We were even told we were better off as slaves instead of being in the jungle. The clincher? We were given a god that looked shockingly like the people doing the oppressing. The best method to enslave a society is to take their God and make that God look like the oppressor. That way the oppression looks preordained and sanctioned by God. Not only did it do a mind job on Blacks but it also did a number on other ethnicities and the way they viewed themselves in relation to Black people.

This programming continues to this day. Images are how the mind works and processes information. Thats why what we see on TV has more effect than what we read. Thats how marketers get you buying their products. Its burned into your subconscious to think of the Windows OS when someone mentions a computer. That stuff is hard to erase even when you are aware of it. Imagine being brainwashed and teaching your children what you have been brainwashed to believe generation after generation because you were unaware of it. This is where we are at. People are starting to wake up but its going to be a long haul. So you see now why I first have to inoculate then teach?

You keep on putting yourself down, and speaking about being brainwashed, and you keep worrying about the brainwashing just continuing on and on and on as if you and others can't ever realize that only a weak person can be brainwashed, so are you weak and will you continue to be weak, and will others you know continue to be weak minded in this way ? Some might find your view very disturbing for them, because they are not weak, and they are doing just fine in their lives as Americans who are black, and this they are doing with all races as Americans united, in which they are doing just fine with these days. You have some bad hang up's on this race thing, and who knows why, other than what you claim here, but you have to get over it somehow, or it will eat you and your children to their core, and it will saddle them with your burdens in a very selfish way, and this is what it mainly seems to be about with you. Seems to me that instead you would want to encourage them and warn them of the downfalls and pitfalls in life yes, and also help them understand that their are bad people in the world, and most importantly they come in all colors shapes and sizes, so just beware of bad people, and don't ever let them get you down.

 

[Asclepias]

I will teach him what is already learning to do which is disarm the butt wipe with humor and class. (BTW the same thing that happens in Black/Black or White/White interactions and happens all the time in the locker room). So what if their is a national campaign? It reflects more poorly on the advertiser than him. Do you really think the majority of us are so stupid that we can't discern others being idiots...

Their is only one image they need to hold and that is if they treat all people with trust and respect and they focus on accepting and improving their faults the rest will work out. Are there idiots out there who will act derogatorily in a racist (or whatever anti short is called) manner. Certainly. But that is only an opportunity to demonstrate to the rest of us that you are a class individual with the social skills to deal with it gracefully. Are you following me?

BTW thanks for the frank discussion.

I think you are missing my point but its understandable. For centuries Blacks have had a "national campaign" directed against them to support first the slave trade, then later to preserve the southern way of life. We were portrayed as property, ignorant, and inferior. We were lied to about our history in Africa. We were even told we were better off as slaves instead of being in the jungle. The clincher? We were given a god that looked shockingly like the people doing the oppressing. The best method to enslave a society is to take their God and make that God look like the oppressor. That way the oppression looks preordained and sanctioned by God. Not only did it do a mind job on Blacks but it also did a number on other ethnicities and the way they viewed themselves in relation to Black people.

This programming continues to this day. Images are how the mind works and processes information. Thats why what we see on TV has more effect than what we read. Thats how marketers get you buying their products. Its burned into your subconscious to think of the Windows OS when someone mentions a computer. That stuff is hard to erase even when you are aware of it. Imagine being brainwashed and teaching your children what you have been brainwashed to believe generation after generation because you were unaware of it. This is where we are at. People are starting to wake up but its going to be a long haul. So you see now why I first have to inoculate then teach?

You keep on putting yourself down, and speaking about being brainwashed, and you keep worrying about the brainwashing just continuing on and on and on as if you and others can't ever realize that only a weak person can be brainwashed, so are you weak and will you continue to be weak, and will others you know continue to be weak minded in this way ? Some might find your view very disturbing for them, because they are not weak, and they are doing just fine in their lives as Americans who are black, and this they are doing with all races as Americans united, in which they are doing just fine with these days. You have some bad hang up's on this race thing, and who knows why, other than what you claim here, but you have to get over it somehow, or it will eat you and your children to their core, and it will saddle them with your burdens in a very selfish way, and this is what it mainly seems to be about with you. Seems to me that instead you would want to encourage them and warn them of the downfalls and pitfalls in life yes, and also help them understand that their are bad people in the world, and most importantly they come in all colors shapes and sizes, so just beware of bad people, and don't ever let them get you down.

Its a myth that only weak minded people can be brainwashed. As a matter of fact its that very sentiment that allows it to happen for so long. People will rationalize it in order to maintain their sense of control. When you scoff at anything you should take that as a pretty good sign you are brainwashed on that subject because your view regarding it came from somewhere else. You may call it weak being able to admit it. I call it being self aware. Look at all your prejudices good and bad and figure out where they came from. You've been brainwashed and you don't even realize it.

All the things you mentioned I definitely do with my children. I just give them the added protection of understanding truly what it is they are up against. Like I said I dont expect you to understand because you don't have my experience nor my childrens.

 

[jwoodie]

Just what is it you are after? Pity? How about self help? If you can't live in a majority white society, you can join the Black Muslims or move to the Caribbean. One of the biggest problems in achieving racial equality is that many negative stereotypes are all too true. The only way to erase them is to replace them with positive stereotypes.

Case in point: After their internment during WW2, Japanese Americans were looked down upon and generally held menial jobs as gardeners. Japanese neighborhoods were shunned. Over time, however, their industrious attitude and conscientious care of their homes and children created a new stereotype which made their neighborhoods desirable places to live.

 

[Asclepias]

Just what is it you are after? Pity? How about self help? If you can't live in a majority white society, you can join the Black Muslims or move to the Caribbean. One of the biggest problems in achieving racial equality is that many negative stereotypes are all too true. The only way to erase them is to replace them with positive stereotypes.

Case in point: After their internment during WW2, Japanese Americans were looked down upon and generally held menial jobs as gardeners. Japanese neighborhoods were shunned. Over time, however, their industrious attitude and conscientious care of their homes and children created a new stereotype which made their neighborhoods desirable places to live.

Why is there this perception Black people want pity because they tell people that are denying something happened that it indeed happened? No. We are explaining the situation and how it came about. I do exactly what you proposed by telling my children about all the positive role models and concepts they have as Black people to look up to. Some people apparently feel that is counter productive or reverse racism.

I laugh when people try and use other ethnic groups to make a point. Show me an ethnic group that lost their history and religion while going through slavery for as long as Blacks did then you may have a point. Throw in the Jim Crow era of racial oppression and you cant find another group to compare Blacks to. The fact that we are still standing right now is amazing in of itself and a testament to our inner strength. As other Blacks get more informed the small minority of negative Black people that are held up for others to see will go away. Your assumption that most Blacks are not doing whats right is indicative of the ongoing brainwashing.

 

[Asclepias]

Why do you feel its an obsession? What do you mean by false way of thinking? I think of myself as a Black man in a society programmed to look down on me in one way or another. Until you can experience that I don't think you can comprehend my daily existence enough to say its false. I dont think you get that I don't have a realistic choice except to look at life from the perspective of me being a Black man. I cant change my last name, dress up differently, move to another city to start over, or alter my skin color in anyway. Its the first thing people see about me before I open my mouth. I'm already prejudged unless there is a conscious effort on that strangers part not to do it. To say that is not reality is naive. I dont understand your line about good whites. What do you mean by them being fooled? My white friends know exactly how I feel and they are still my friends.

You are actually one of the most racist people I have ever had a discussion with. I put you right up there with some of the red necks that live around here. If people (white I presume) are looking down on you it isn't because you are black it is because you are so damn insulting to assume they are incapable of looking past your skin color. I find you off putting just on the message board. God forbid I had to work with you as a co-worker.

Do you know what racist means? Really you should look up the word. If you dont understand how the human mind works and how marketing creates perception, I'm afraid you will never understand what I am talking about anyway. Probably best not to discuss anything with me if you cant see past your tightly held beliefs long enough to consider what I am saying.

 

[jwoodie]

It seems that you are claiming special knowledge and insight that somehow elevates your opinions over the rest of us. Rather egotistical, wouldn't you say?

 

[NLT]

I see hindus, asians, muslims and Africans (from Africa) doing very well in the Dallas FT Worth area. You know why, because they get off there ass and work everyday to run thier bussiness. They are not sitting around smoking dope, shooting robbing gangbanging screwing baby momma, whining and moaning that the man has kept them down so long now he better pay up.

 

[Steven_R]

I laugh when people try and use other ethnic groups to make a point. Show me an ethnic group that lost their history and religion while going through slavery for as long as Blacks did then you may have a point.

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

 

[Asclepias]

I laugh when people try and use other ethnic groups to make a point. Show me an ethnic group that lost their history and religion while going through slavery for as long as Blacks did then you may have a point.

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

I didnt ask you to point out what the conquerors tried to do. I asked someone if it in fact happened. You should have no trouble naming 1 group that lost their history and perception of their motherland and their religion for as long as Black people did. All I ask is one. You can be specific if its pretty much everyone.

 

[NLT]

I laugh when people try and use other ethnic groups to make a point. Show me an ethnic group that lost their history and religion while going through slavery for as long as Blacks did then you may have a point.

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

I didnt ask you to point out what the conquerors tried to do. I asked someone if it in fact happened. You should have no trouble naming 1 group that lost their history and perception of their motherland and their religion for as long as Black people did. All I ask is one. You can be specific if its pretty much everyone.

I would offer you a tissue but all mine are white....

 

[Steven_R]

I laugh when people try and use other ethnic groups to make a point. Show me an ethnic group that lost their history and religion while going through slavery for as long as Blacks did then you may have a point.

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

I didnt ask you to point out what the conquerors tried to do. I asked someone if it in fact happened. You should have no trouble naming 1 group that lost their history and perception of their motherland and their religion for as long as Black people did. All I ask is one. You can be specific if its pretty much everyone.

The Incas for one. They've only been able to read their own hieroglyphs for the past few decades after the Conquistadors burned nearly all their writings and forbid their oral histories and traditions.

 

[Asclepias]

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

I didnt ask you to point out what the conquerors tried to do. I asked someone if it in fact happened. You should have no trouble naming 1 group that lost their history and perception of their motherland and their religion for as long as Black people did. All I ask is one. You can be specific if its pretty much everyone.

I would offer you a tissue but all mine are white....

Is that the name of a ethnic group? Never heard of that one. How about showing how intelligent you are and come up with one. I just found one but they dont exist anymore.

 

[jwoodie]

I laugh when people try and use other ethnic groups to make a point. Show me an ethnic group that lost their history and religion while going through slavery for as long as Blacks did then you may have a point.

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

I didnt ask you to point out what the conquerors tried to do. I asked someone if it in fact happened. You should have no trouble naming 1 group that lost their history and perception of their motherland and their religion for as long as Black people did. All I ask is one. You can be specific if its pretty much everyone.

1. What do you mean by "perception of their motherland and their religion?"

2. For historical comparison, how about the Jews?

 

[Asclepias]

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

I didnt ask you to point out what the conquerors tried to do. I asked someone if it in fact happened. You should have no trouble naming 1 group that lost their history and perception of their motherland and their religion for as long as Black people did. All I ask is one. You can be specific if its pretty much everyone.

The Incas for one. They've only been able to read their own hieroglyphs for the past few decades after the Conquistadors burned nearly all their writings and forbid their oral histories and traditions.

How long were they enslaved for and how did their perception of their homeland change negatively? What is their current state of affairs?

 

[Asclepias]

Uhhh, how about all of them. Pretty much every time someone conquered another people, the first thing that was done was to kill off the ruling classes and declare the old gods and laws were dead and the new laws and gods were all that was taught. This happened everywhere. Look at the Middle East or what happened in the Americas when the Catholics showed up. It isn't like the Blacks were the first people in history to have a boot on their neck and their traditions and histories suppressed.

I didnt ask you to point out what the conquerors tried to do. I asked someone if it in fact happened. You should have no trouble naming 1 group that lost their history and perception of their motherland and their religion for as long as Black people did. All I ask is one. You can be specific if its pretty much everyone.

1. What do you mean by "perception of their motherland and their religion?"

2. For historical comparison, how about the Jews?

1. For instance. when I was child it was an insult to even imply someone was from Africa. Most African-Americans have no clue what their original religion was.

2. Jews never ever lost their God and traditions which are the cornerstones of the group dynamic. They never got a bad view of their homeland. Besides Jews is more of a religious designation. There are Ethiopians that were Jewish.

 

[jwoodie]

1. So YOUR perception is the problem? By the way, what was the "original religion?"

2. The Jewish homeland was DESTROYED. Ever hear of the Diaspora, pogroms or Holocaust?

3. The modern state of Israel is an example of self help.

4. What, exactly, do you want? Reparations? Condescension? White self flagellation? Revenge?

 

[Steven_R]

4. What, exactly, do you want? Reparations? Condescension? White self flagellation? Revenge?

He wants us to all admit the blacks had it worse than anyone ever.

Also, I was wrong. It was the Maya, not the Inca. Mea culpa.

 

[jwoodie]

4. What, exactly, do you want? Reparations? Condescension? White self flagellation? Revenge?

He wants us to all admit the blacks had it worse than anyone ever.

Also, I was wrong. It was the Maya, not the Inca. Mea culpa.

So if we all say OK, is that the end of it?