Zone1 Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us?

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Jesus Christ man, quote some scripture, any, I might have to agree. You are lukewarm and Jesus will spit you out. Your Lord will reject you. And as an added bonus, you will be in Hell like me, forever, just for that alone.

 

[Thunk]

And your opinion sounds like complete bullshit to avoid my premise.

Yes, it IS my opinion...but I began with one of your premises...and we can't get past that. No reason that I can see for us to continue.

Any opinion I give is just going to further piss you off.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Maybe I'm here to give you idiots a clue and get you straight with God. I really hope you assholes can see that.
And so you know, as an internet troll, I enjoy this, it doesn't piss me off in the least.

I'm far better than AI, more human folly in that department.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I do want to add that even though I went through all the evil shit and put God on his head and the Devil on top, I must admit that all life, human down to single-cell life, has this attitude of what is right or good and what is wrong and bad. It is an instinct that all life is born with and I must weave that into my theory. There must be a reason that we are born into this living hell, it seems that we are born with an instinct of what is right and wrong, so I must assume that God understands this, or he doesn't. Or we may be the fallen angels that are doomed to God's punishment.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

There is a Hell, Michigan. I have been there.
There is also a Paradise, Michigan. I have also been there.

My point?

I have been to Hell and back!

Seriously, I don't believe there is a Hell.
Sure, we all say that "We're going to Hell!"
But I don't think Spiritually, we are ever going there. I believe the Spirits roam the earth, in the Afterlife.

I figure Michigan is on a map somewhere, hell, not so much. Let's not talk about Detroit.

 

[Z99]

...then I really have respect for Satan and his rebellion against God.

Satan is NOT in "rebellion" against God. Satan is doing EXACTLY what God created him to do, which is to test/torment us. In the end, Satan will be transformed and will join the rest of us in God's Kingdom.

 

[Z99]

If I wasn't born evil, an innocent soul at birth, why in heaven or hell must I endure this mortal life?

If this is to teach me some lesson, I don't understand the lesson plan.

You are being tested, purified, and refined in preparation for your role in God's Kingdom. He has BIG plans for you in his kingdom.

 

[Z99]

Say grace over my meals, there's a good one. I wonder what excuse God has for the death and destruction of his creation in order to perpetuate human-kind, generation after generation, for what? To either punish us or elevate us to his level after we suffer and die?

The day we die is better than the day we were born, according to the Bible. God uses all of us to teach one another and then calls us home when our time here is done. Most of us go straight into paradise. That's a wonderful result.

 

[Z99]

there is no good argument for salvation after we die.

Jesus saves ALL from forever death and forever punishment.

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[Z99]

My problem is I believe in God the creator of all things. And I am beginning to hate that guy.

The Bible says that all good things in our lives are gifts from God. You should thank God every day for thinking of and creating you and for all of the wonderful things in your life that he has given you as well as for your amazing place in his future kingdom.

 

[Z99]

And as an added bonus, you will be in Hell like me, forever, just for that alone.

Hell is temporary and restorative. God doesn't punish people forever.

Lamentations 3:31
For the Lord will not cast off forever

 

[Z99]

There must be a reason that we are born into this living hell

Indeed there is. We are allowed to be lost from our Heavenly Father from one extent to another for a period of time. We are learning about evil and we are being refined and tested to see if we will willingly follow Jesus to Paradise or if we will need to go into the "Lake of Fire", aka "Hell", for further refinement.

Satan rules this world - for now. That will end when Jesus returns. The question is, will Jesus recognize us as one of his or one of Satan's? Those who belong to Satan will be killed and thrown into the LOF in order to fix them. It is punitive but it is punitive for the purpose of restoration.

1 John 3:19
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Good stuff, thanks Z99.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I have a disclaimer going forward, and I am absolutely serious. This subject has driven people mad and I am diving right in. So, beware, even discussing this threatens your sanity.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't see much difference between our temporary mortal existence and the Hell we are threatened with unless we obey a God that seems far more evil than his fallen angels.

I find myself having real sympathy for the Devil as the adversary of a God that would believe it was his blessing to create such a dark and evil universe and make us struggle here as mortals

My problem is I believe in God the creator of all things. And I am beginning to hate that guy.

God is love, God is goodness. Start with that. Next, our first ancestors decided they wanted to know both good and evil. Knowing both good and evil opens the way for us to know ourselves, who we truly are both in good times and in bad, even in evil times.

Could it be, that whatever it is you are going through in this life, you are looking for someone to blame, and you are not all that interested in coming to know God; rather your interest is in finding fault with God? Is that who the self you are truly is? A fault-finder of others, even God?

One thing I've learned about God that I try to emulate is that God brings good out evil. Whatever the evil you are seeing in your own life and blaming God for, could you, instead, find your own talent in bringing good out of that evil?

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

God is love, God is goodness. Start with that. Next, our first ancestors decided they wanted to know both good and evil. Knowing both good and evil opens the way for us to know ourselves, who we truly are both in good times and in bad, even in evil times.

Could it be, that whatever it is you are going through in this life, you are looking for someone to blame, and you are not all that interested in coming to know God; rather your interest is in finding fault with God? Is that who the self you are truly is? A fault-finder of others, even God?

One thing I've learned about God that I try to emulate is that God brings good out evil. Whatever the evil you are seeing in your own life and blaming God for, could you, instead, find your own talent in bringing good out of that evil?

Love is an emotion we have and in my opinion, it is a dirty trick that nature plays on us to drive us to procreate. Good is subjective, it is entirely based on what is beneficial to our survival, usually at the expense of other life forms and even physical reality itself.

I may be looking to cast blame on the creator of all things, but there is far more to this thread and my motivation for creating it across a number of forums. I have yet to present this in more serious venues than this one and am merely testing the waters.

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I had mentioned the idea that we are born innocent and have instinctual knowledge of right and wrong. If I were to take this evil creation theory to its logical conclusion, then that idea is wrong. As a created being, I must have been created as evil, therefore, my sinful nature is, natural. Why do we pretend that our perception of good and evil, just and unjust, is how it is meant to be?

It keeps coming back to being social animals and encouraging certain behaviors that benefit our survival as a species. This relates to the selfish gene theory, survival and procreation by any means necessary to perpetuate the species. This is our main struggle as mortal beings in this reality.

 

[Meriweather]

Love is an emotion we have and in my opinion, it is a dirty trick that nature plays on us to drive us to procreate. Good is subjective, it is entirely based on what is beneficial to our survival, usually at the expense of other life forms and even physical reality itself.

Isn't it the sex drive that results in procreation? There are many ways we love that never leads to sex. The same is true of goodness. Further, many find evil to be even more beneficial to their survival. Have you considered that how you are defining love and goodness is (thus far) incomplete?

 

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Isn't it the sex drive that results in procreation? There are many ways we love that never leads to sex. The same is true of goodness. Further, many find evil to be even more beneficial to their survival. Have you considered that how you are defining love and goodness is (thus far) incomplete?

All my knowledge and perceptions are incomplete compared to an all-powerful omnipotent creator.

Certainly love in all its forms isn't the sex drive. However, it is a survival trait for social animals like humans and aids in the perpetuation of the species. It is similar to how humans react to cute little helpless infants, unless you're a cannibal.

 

[Road Runner]

I was going to reply...but your mind is made up.

Anything I say will fall upon deaf ears.

Same here.

Well, lets start there...it isn't true.

Not trying to bash you or anything but you need to dig deeper & get a better understanding. This is a "surface understanding" of things.

There is nothing you can do to "EARN" heaven. Heaven is a gift, already bought and paid for by Jesus...and He has already offered it to you. But Jesus can't force you to accept it, Nor does He want to.

Thunk of it as I offered you a gift...you wouldn't have to accept it...you could just say "no thanks" and walk away.

To accept it is to BELIEVE that Jesus is the doorway into heaven...He is the savior and only thru Him can we enter.

I honestly don't know what I believe anymore as a part of me believes this but a part of me also believes that God wouldn't send anybody to Hell just for simply having different beliefs than Christianity.

Satan is NOT in "rebellion" against God. Satan is doing EXACTLY what God wanted him to do which is test/torment us.

That statement I already know that I don't agree with at all though.