Healthcare crisis, or SCAM?

[PixieStix]

There was no healthcare "CRISIS" until the administration created it. It is a dream. No basis in facts.

Were American falling over dead of disease? If you were in an accident and had no coverage, were you denied emergency services and even hospitalization?

Not only that, but healthcare is a personal choice, not for big bro to intervene in my personal life. I had no thoughts of a personal healthcare crisis before, but I do fear the government plan for MY health

Alinsly rules, yes he does, lie, lie, and lie, and sooner or later everyone will believe the lies?

A healthcare crisis? A healthscare scam, to take our country closer to socialism in all it's glory is closer than ever, one of the most effective ways to employ socialism is to instill fear into the middle class, using healthcare and climate change seems to be working thus far


interesting read below
The Depths of Demcare Demagoguery – by Michelle Malkin | FrontPage Magazine

 

[Oddball]

Why do you want people to die in the streets?

 

[slackjawed]

who died in the streets? thats the point of the op.......nobody is dying in the streets.
where is the crisis? people in this country only go untreated by choice. Even if you can't pay for it, you will still be treated if you show up at the ER.

 

[Oddball]

You must hate chiiiillllldrrreeeennnn!

 

[PixieStix]

SCHLAFLY: Community organizing explained - Washington Times

 

[PixieStix]

You must hate chiiiillllldrrreeeennnn!

I hate everybody

The organizer must "rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; fan the latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expression. ... An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontent."


Alinsky didn't ignore traditional moral standards or dismiss them as unnecessary. He was more devious; he taught his followers that "Moral rationalization is indispensable at all times of action whether to justify the selection or the use of ends or means."
To achieve his goals, he sought local community organizers who projected confidence and vision as well as change. Barack Obama fit the profile.

 

[slackjawed]

from a very conservative site, but it seems all we get are very biased reports from both sides.
I post this as it supports the op and provides some good talking points.
"For those of you who aren't familiar with it, the Crisis Strategy was the brainchild of two radical socialist college professors, Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. The idea was to overwhelm government with demands for services to the point where the system would collapse and provide an opening for the socialists to take over. Their strategy was behind creation of the National Welfare Rights Organization in the 1960s and 1970s which dramatically increased the welfare roles and caused the near bankruptcy of New York City in 1975; creation of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), prime instigators of the mortgage meltdown; the national Motor Voter law signed by President Clinton in 1993, which opened the floodgates to vote fraud by ACORN and similar groups; and the illegal immigrant amnesty movement. As we all should know by now, Barack Obama worked with and trained ACORN workers for many years, and is known and supported by all the major players in this movement.

Healthcare nationalization is a major component of this strategy. The Left has agitated almost since the turn of the last century for some kind of socialized healthcare system. In fact, from 1939 forward, practically every Congressional session proposed national healthcare legislation."

American Thinker: Manufactured Healthcare Crisis

 

[PixieStix]

Anyone with who chooses to use their brain will conclude that this so called crisis is nothing more than a scam

 

[Care4all]

Well, there has been a health care crisis for decades now, in my own personal experience.

I have had 2 dealings with insurance companies, the ONLY TIME I ever needed care....one was a surgery which cost $15 grand years ago to remove tumors that I had in my uterus...of which the insurance company refused to pay it, ruined my husband and my credit which we did not know until 6 years afterwards when we went to buy a house, and it took getting the insurance commissioner of Florida to help us straighten it out and show that the law was on our side and the HMO insurance was responsible.

And the second was here in maine, Where i visited the doctor once, and the tests and bloodwork the doctor ran to figure out what was wrong with me, which came to $2000 grand, of which our new insurance company ALSO refused to pay on a technicality of how the doctor filed the claim so the Doctor and hospital have come after us for the payment, which we are paying.

In addition to this, I would like to buy individual health insurance here in Maine for myself, and so my husband could just rely on the VA disabled vet benefit he receives for his injuries while serving, for his insurance, but a policy, just for me alone, is $1250 bucks a month which is out of our reach.

Also, 3-4 years ago my husband was laid off and we were forced to pay COBRA coverage if we wanted insurance and this was nearly $700 dollars a month, we paid it for a year before he found another job with insurance benefits, and while bringing in no money, but we had a year's safety net of savings that this ate near every bit of it.

In addition to my own personal stress regarding healthcare, many businesses, can no longer afford to have health care as a benefit and each year more and more businesses are having to lower their contributions to ones health insurance or to drop the benefit altogether and if you are an employee of a company that offers the benefit, many times there are NO CHOICES of insurance for you to choose from....the companies my husband worked for ONLY OFFERED one insurance policy you could buy in to and they share the cost....one is STUCK with who ones company chooses and the benefits offed by them.

So, yeah, there is a health care crisis.

What is being done in Congress on this, especially without a public option being available to ALL of us to CHOOSE from, will only keep the cost of health insurance higher than what the market can bare and is a gift horse to the insurance industry in my humble opinion....and doesn't address the rise of health care costs with the health care industry enough.

so once again, matt and me are sh*t out of luck.

care

 

[toomuchtime_]

There was no healthcare "CRISIS" until the administration created it. It is a dream. No basis in facts.

Were American falling over dead of disease? If you were in an accident and had no coverage, were you denied emergency services and even hospitalization?

Not only that, but healthcare is a personal choice, not for big bro to intervene in my personal life. I had no thoughts of a personal healthcare crisis before, but I do fear the government plan for MY health

Alinsly rules, yes he does, lie, lie, and lie, and sooner or later everyone will believe the lies?

A healthcare crisis? A healthscare scam, to take our country closer to socialism in all it's glory is closer than ever, one of the most effective ways to employ socialism is to instill fear into the middle class, using healthcare and climate change seems to be working thus far


interesting read below
The Depths of Demcare Demagoguery – by Michelle Malkin | FrontPage Magazine

Indeed, how can there be a health care crisis when the US already has universal health care? Everyone in America, regardless of income, wealth or insurance status already has access to health care. The issues the Dems are trying to turn into campaign slogans are who will pay for this health care and who will make the decisions on what kind of health care your insurer, public or private, will allow your doctor to provide.

So far the Dems bills would have the 17 million to 20 million Americans who could afford to pay for their own health insurance but choose to pay their own medical bills and the poorest Medicare recipients who choose Medicare Advantage plans to save money pay for most of the changes they want, and as HHS' recent failed effort to discourage insurers from paying for mammograms for women in their forties, the Dems would have political appointees decide what health care your doctor will be able to provide to you.

We do have a health care crisis in this country, and its name is Obama Pelosi Reid.

 

[slackjawed]

Well, there has been a health care crisis for decades now, in my own personal experience.

I have had 2 dealings with insurance companies, the ONLY TIME I ever needed care....one was a surgery which cost $15 grand years ago to remove tumors that I had in my uterus...of which the insurance company refused to pay it, ruined my husband and my credit which we did not know until 6 years afterwards when we went to buy a house, and it took getting the insurance commissioner of Florida to help us straighten it out and show that the law was on our side and the HMO insurance was responsible.

And the second was here in maine, Where i visited the doctor once, and the tests and bloodwork the doctor ran to figure out what was wrong with me, which came to $2000 grand, of which our new insurance company ALSO refused to pay on a technicality of how the doctor filed the claim so the Doctor and hospital have come after us for the payment, which we are paying.

In addition to this, I would like to buy individual health insurance here in Maine for myself, and so my husband could just rely on the VA disabled vet benefit he receives for his injuries while serving, for his insurance, but a policy, just for me alone, is $1250 bucks a month which is out of our reach.

Also, 3-4 years ago my husband was laid off and we were forced to pay COBRA coverage if we wanted insurance and this was nearly $700 dollars a month, we paid it for a year before he found another job with insurance benefits, and while bringing in no money, but we had a year's safety net of savings that this ate near every bit of it.

In addition to my own personal stress regarding healthcare, many businesses, can no longer afford to have health care as a benefit and each year more and more businesses are having to lower their contributions to ones health insurance or to drop the benefit altogether and if you are an employee of a company that offers the benefit, many times there are NO CHOICES of insurance for you to choose from....the companies my husband worked for ONLY OFFERED one insurance policy you could buy in to and they share the cost....one is STUCK with who ones company chooses and the benefits offed by them.

So, yeah, there is a health care crisis.

What is being done in Congress on this, especially without a public option being available to ALL of us to CHOOSE from, will only keep the cost of health insurance higher than what the market can bare and is a gift horse to the insurance industry in my humble opinion....and doesn't address the rise of health care costs with the health care industry enough.

so once again, matt and me are sh*t out of luck.

care

I and my family too, have had bad experiences with the current Hc system for a long time. Not only are we shit out of luck, but my daughter, my wife and myself have been injured because providers practice 'defensive' medicine. There are times, from my personal experience, that the tests that are ordered simply to protect from lawsuits, are harmful to the patient. personal, I only do holistic drs and self care now- gave up on the 'system' even though I have a terminal condition.
My kids have to deal with it a lot longer than i do though, and I would like to see something that works.
I ask, do you think a public option would fix the economic side of HC? As a follow-up, do you think the public option would improve or cause a decline in the healthcare side of HC?
Do you think that the current approach, which is managing it as a crisis, will yield any meaningful results?

 

[Care4all]

Well, there has been a health care crisis for decades now, in my own personal experience.

I have had 2 dealings with insurance companies, the ONLY TIME I ever needed care....one was a surgery which cost $15 grand years ago to remove tumors that I had in my uterus...of which the insurance company refused to pay it, ruined my husband and my credit which we did not know until 6 years afterwards when we went to buy a house, and it took getting the insurance commissioner of Florida to help us straighten it out and show that the law was on our side and the HMO insurance was responsible.

And the second was here in maine, Where i visited the doctor once, and the tests and bloodwork the doctor ran to figure out what was wrong with me, which came to $2000 grand, of which our new insurance company ALSO refused to pay on a technicality of how the doctor filed the claim so the Doctor and hospital have come after us for the payment, which we are paying.

In addition to this, I would like to buy individual health insurance here in Maine for myself, and so my husband could just rely on the VA disabled vet benefit he receives for his injuries while serving, for his insurance, but a policy, just for me alone, is $1250 bucks a month which is out of our reach.

Also, 3-4 years ago my husband was laid off and we were forced to pay COBRA coverage if we wanted insurance and this was nearly $700 dollars a month, we paid it for a year before he found another job with insurance benefits, and while bringing in no money, but we had a year's safety net of savings that this ate near every bit of it.

In addition to my own personal stress regarding healthcare, many businesses, can no longer afford to have health care as a benefit and each year more and more businesses are having to lower their contributions to ones health insurance or to drop the benefit altogether and if you are an employee of a company that offers the benefit, many times there are NO CHOICES of insurance for you to choose from....the companies my husband worked for ONLY OFFERED one insurance policy you could buy in to and they share the cost....one is STUCK with who ones company chooses and the benefits offed by them.

So, yeah, there is a health care crisis.

What is being done in Congress on this, especially without a public option being available to ALL of us to CHOOSE from, will only keep the cost of health insurance higher than what the market can bare and is a gift horse to the insurance industry in my humble opinion....and doesn't address the rise of health care costs with the health care industry enough.

so once again, matt and me are sh*t out of luck.

care

I and my family too, have had bad experiences with the current Hc system for a long time. Not only are we shit out of luck, but my daughter, my wife and myself have been injured because providers practice 'defensive' medicine. There are times, from my personal experience, that the tests that are ordered simply to protect from lawsuits, are harmful to the patient. personal, I only do holistic drs and self care now- gave up on the 'system' even though I have a terminal condition.
My kids have to deal with it a lot longer than i do though, and I would like to see something that works.
I ask, do you think a public option would fix the economic side of HC? As a follow-up, do you think the public option would improve or cause a decline in the healthcare side of HC?
Do you think that the current approach, which is managing it as a crisis, will yield any meaningful results?

There are many things that can be addressed that could lower the cost of health care and some of them are in these 2 different bills of the house and the senate, however the way this bill was put together, what savings do come from these changes, will not have to be passed along to the consumer by the Insurance companies, the way the bills finally came out of congress imo.

but over all, I do believe a streamlined paperwork for the various different plans needs to be addressed. I had read that John Hopkins alone had 764 DIFFERENT billing plans that they had to accommodate during the year...this is just one hospital, can you imagine what it is like for all of them added together? This needs to be addressed and you would have thought that the private sector would have addressed this on their own without having gvt to do it for them, due to the estimated 25% savings for doing such?

And yes, perhaps it is to protect themselves from malpractice that doctors do over test, but I would bet that it has more to do with their Hippocratic oath. Doctors want to heal others, make them better...it is not suppose to be about money, but for healing, that they would WANT to run all tests possible to determine the illness or the healing of such illness.

GRANTED there are THIEVES who prey on the system, with insurance fraud, filing for claims for tests that were never run at all or for running tests that don't even relate to a patient's illness, and some individuals who have committed fraud as well...I think the amount of fraud taking place is absolutely unacceptable and we need to go after these clinics or doctor's offices etc. with a vengeance and strengthen our laws against doing such.

And yes, some malpractice reform does need to take place.

But there is so much more that simply can be done, that would also ease the cost of health care that our government should do to help with lowering costs and this is to encourage, through tax incentives or even through subsidies, MORE DOCTORS, and more nurses and more hospitals... whether it is raising their allotment of Medical Doctors that go through our universities a year, and getting more professors to teach nursing, or enlarging our medical schools or giving more grants for medical school or nursing school or medical technology degrees, or adding clinics and hospitals via the private sector.....

this entire area has a SHORTAGE and THIS is why health care can cost so much because our supply, does not meet our demand, and with the boomers just beginning to retire, we need many many many more doctors and hospitals etc to deal with the demand now and the demand that will be just on our doorstep in just a few years.

PHARMA, the cost of our drug costs verses the cost of these same drugs from these same manufacturers in other countries is unacceptable and a real shame that we have to cover all of the research and development costs while ALL OTHER COUNTRIES buying drugs from them DO NOT. We should be allowed to buy from Canada or any other country we trust, and we also should be allowed to negotiate bulk discounts for our medicare pills, as the veteran's admin can negotiate prices for them, but the law as it stands, writen by Billy Tauzin in the medicare pill bill, can NOT.

I also believe that encouraging a healthy lifestyle, could save a good deal on what health care is costing us...whether the insurance companies offer a discount to employers buying their plans...that have healthy lifestyle sessions with their employees or our government promotes it somehow through informing all of us....a healthy lifestyle is the key to lower healthcare costs.

In addition to this, the antitrust protection of insurance companies is unduly UNFAIR, and keeps the true free market from working that would allow true competition in every state could help reduce costs. As it stands now, there is a nod and a wink between insurance companies and states that have allowed only one or 2 insurance companies within their states to hold more than 80% of their state citizen policies....the government many moons ago determined for other businesses that if one company holds more than 38% or the market's business, they are monopolistic and true competition is not present...and competition is the KEY to Capitalism working well as a system, yet these insurance companies are being given favor to protect them from such with an old law on the books...and the big insurance companies imo are in cahoots...they can keep their prices higher and not have to worry about the competition. And if there is no incentive for insurance companies to negotiate for the absolute lowest price from the hospitals and doctors, then there is NO ONE to keep the doctors and hospitals from charging so much....because insurance companies have employers and us by the balls, we choose them or one or two others or no insurance at all....

All insurance companies should be opened up on to the free market, regardless of state....for all employers to choose from or for all individual employees to choose from with the companies contribution...but NOOOOOOOOO, these insurance companies got the bill changed that had the provision to no longer give them antitrust protection...yes a democrat, senator nelson I believe, got this provision removed....guess he got a huge cotribution from the insurance industry...

So yes, I think the public insurance option, offered on the insurance exchange to both employers and individuals to BUY, could have combated these duopolies within many of our states and could have been true competition to the insurance industry which could have encouraged the insurance industry to do what they are suppose to do, COMPETE.

Care

 

[slackjawed]

While I do not agree with everything in your post, I find it a very good post that raises a lot of important and valid points. I thank you for your post, it is informative. i believe it is representitive of most of us US citizens, or at least a significant minority.
Now I just can't figure out why congress wants to not fix some of the really bad stuff, and yet wants to "fix" other things in the name of making improvements. I don't get it.
I think we need to look at the possibility that it really is more about a "cloward and piven" strategy than anything else.

 

[dblack]

There was no healthcare "CRISIS" until the administration created it. It is a dream. No basis in facts.

It was a crisis for the health insurance industry. Their flagship product, "group health insurance" had run its course and they were up against a wall.