Hawaii proves gun control laws don't stop criminals....felon, with 10 convictions, living on an island...gets guns easily.

[2aguy]

I suppose I could, but if you don't already understand that arming someone who can't legally possess a gun is a threat to the rights of the person to be injured with that gun, you are too stupid to understand my explanation.

That is already against the law........the individual straw buyer can already be arrested and prosecuted for it.

 

[BULLDOG]

That is already illegal.....and both the seller and the felon can be arrested.

Again.....you won't answer the question....a background check system that does not require gun registration....do you support that?

It's only illegal if it can be proven the seller knew the buyer can not legally possess a gun. With our current system, an individual seller is not required to know anything about the buyer, and has no obligation or ability to check their background.

 

[2aguy]

It's only illegal if it can be proven the seller knew the buyer can not legally possess a gun. With our current system, an individual seller is not required to know anything about the buyer, and has no obligation or ability to check their background.

No.....when you have an actual straw buyer, they lie on the federal form for background checks.....you don't need gun registration to get them, you just catch the criminal and they give them up.

Straw buyers are the ones providing guns to gangs and criminals...private sellers are not.......

Again.......do you support a background check system that does not require gun registration?

 

[BULLDOG]

No.....when you have an actual straw buyer, they lie on the federal form for background checks.....you don't need gun registration to get them, you just catch the criminal and they give them up.

Straw buyers are the ones providing guns to gangs and criminals...private sellers are not.......

Again.......do you support a background check system that does not require gun registration?

Again, Explain to me the difference between an individual seller, and a straw buyer who claims they didn't know the crook wasn't allowed to possess a gun.


PLEASE COPY THE FOLLOWING AND RETAIN FOR YOUR RECORDS DUMB ASS.
I've answered your dumb question many times. This is the last time, so write it down so you don't forget again.

Of course I could support a background check system that didn't require gun registration. I have said repeatedly said I would like to expand our current background system checks to include individual sellers. Providing for registration, or not, would by no means be the deciding factor on whether I would support such a law.

 

[2aguy]

Again, Explain to me the difference between an individual seller, and a straw buyer who claims they didn't know the crook wasn't allowed to possess a gun.


PLEASE COPY THE FOLLOWING AND RETAIN FOR YOUR RECORDS DUMB ASS.
I've answered your dumb question many times. This is the last time, so write it down so you don't forget again.

Of course I could support a background check system that didn't require gun registration. I have said repeatedly said I would like to expand our current background system checks to include individual sellers. Providing for registration, or not, would by no means be the deciding factor on whether I would support such a law.

Straw buyers are intentionally selling guns to criminals. Individuals who have guns of their own, privately owned guns, sell them as private citizens. Straw buyers can pass any background check, buy the gun then sell the gun, knowingly to criminals to make a profit.

We already have all the laws on the books to arrest and imprison straw buyers.

You want universal background checks for a problem that doesn't exist.....people selling their own, private guns ....they are not the suppliers of gangs and criminals.....straw buyers are individual sellers, hence your attempt to lie about who they are.....who buy guns to supply criminals.

Notice....people selling their private guns are not the source of guns for criminals...

These are individual sellers...you idiot..

A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

Another individual seller....you idiot....

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.

This is already illegal.....

Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

Notice....dipstick........none of these sources are individuals selling their shotgun or handgun because they don't want it anymore....or want to take that cash to buy the newest gun on the market......or getting rid of the dead husband's gun collection..........

They are all criminals, engaged in actual criminal activity...

 

[BULLDOG]

Straw buyers are intentionally selling guns to criminals. Individuals who have guns of their own, privately owned guns, sell them as private citizens. Straw buyers can pass any background check, buy the gun then sell the gun, knowingly to criminals to make a profit.

We already have all the laws on the books to arrest and imprison straw buyers.

You want universal background checks for a problem that doesn't exist.....people selling their own, private guns ....they are not the suppliers of gangs and criminals.....straw buyers are individual sellers, hence your attempt to lie about who they are.....who buy guns to supply criminals.

Notice....people selling their private guns are not the source of guns for criminals...

These are individual sellers...you idiot..

A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

Another individual seller....you idiot....

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.

This is already illegal.....

Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

Notice....dipstick........none of these sources are individuals selling their shotgun or handgun because they don't want it anymore....or want to take that cash to buy the newest gun on the market......or getting rid of the dead husband's gun collection..........

They are all criminals, engaged in actual criminal activity...

So from the law enforcer's point of view, what is the difference between what you insist on calling a straw buyer who says he didn't know the crook wasn't allowed to possess a gun, and an individual seller? Either way, you have to prove they did know, but there is no obligation for them to know either way.

 

[2aguy]

So from the law enforcer's point of view, what is the difference between what you insist on calling a straw buyer who says he didn't know the crook wasn't allowed to possess a gun, and an individual seller? Either way, you have to prove they did know, but there is no obligation for them to know either way.

Volume. A guy who wants to unload one of his guns is selling it one time...the straw buyers are making money selling to criminals...as the article points out. you want to use the lie of individual buyers.....guys who sell a random pistol, rifle or shotgun, as an excuse to get universal background checks....so you can get gun registration.

We can already arrest the felon who can't buy the gun in the first place, who will then give up the seller, and we can arrest the seller who is supplying guns to criminals.....

We don't need what you want....

 

[justinacolmena]

criminals owning guns in Honolulu. As previously noted, you can’t get there without going through some kind of security, either via ship or plane

How are all those drugs, not only Marijuana but opium, tar heroin, crack cocaine, crystal meth, LSD, angel dust, magic mushrooms, peyote, etc., etc. trafficked in and out of Hawaii through all that security if the cops are grabbing all the guns from clean and sober folks?

Maybe you just aren't rich enough to own a boat or a plane. Maybe a float plane, take off and land off-shore a bit of in a protected cove or bay?

 

[justinacolmena]

So from the law enforcer's point of view, what is the difference between what you insist on calling a straw buyer who says he didn't know the crook wasn't allowed to possess a gun, and an individual seller? Either way, you have to prove they did know, but there is no obligation for them to know either way.

What's a straw buyer? Some people buy straw bales from farms and build homes out of them. Or else there are drinking straws on aisle 9 in the grocery store. That's right, it's ATF. Alcohol always comes first and guns are banned for sober people.

 

[BULLDOG]

Volume. A guy who wants to unload one of his guns is selling it one time...the straw buyers are making money selling to criminals...as the article points out. you want to use the lie of individual buyers.....guys who sell a random pistol, rifle or shotgun, as an excuse to get universal background checks....so you can get gun registration.

We can already arrest the felon who can't buy the gun in the first place, who will then give up the seller, and we can arrest the seller who is supplying guns to criminals.....

We don't need what you want....

So how are you going to determine volume. All you got is the hope that a bad guy will turn in who ever sold him the gun. You know how pathetic that sounds?

 

[BULLDOG]

What's a straw buyer? Some people buy straw bales from farms and build homes out of them. Or else there are drinking straws on aisle 9 in the grocery store. That's right, it's ATF. Alcohol always comes first and guns are banned for sober people.

I'm sorry. I'm so used to hearing that term from gun nuts till I just assumed you all used it. From my understanding, it's someone who sells a gun to someone who can't legally possess one. Effectively, exactly the same as an individual gun seller.

 

[justinacolmena]

I'm sorry. I'm so used to hearing that term from gun nuts till I just assumed you all used it. From my understanding, it's someone who sells a gun to someone who can't legally possess one. Effectively, exactly the same as an individual gun seller.

Anyone with two eyes intelligent enough to walk into a store or offer a wad of cash to a buddy and count change may legally buy a gun by the Second Amendment.

Do you need a receipt to take the gun back to the store if it doesn't perform to your expectations? Have it repaired somewhere? Is there a lifetime warranty on it? No! All sales final and the damn life-ruining feebie cops just want to put you in prison no matter what. Circulate "armed-and-dangerous" all-points be-on-the-look-out posters when you haven't done anything wrong and there isn't even a warrant out for you.

 

[BULLDOG]

Anyone with two eyes intelligent enough to walk into a store or offer a wad of cash to a buddy and count change may legally buy a gun by the Second Amendment.

Do you need a receipt to take the gun back to the store if it doesn't perform to your expectations? Have it repaired somewhere? Is there a lifetime warranty on it? No! All sales final and the damn life-ruining feebie cops just want to put you in prison no matter what. Circulate "armed-and-dangerous" all-points be-on-the-look-out posters when you haven't done anything wrong and there isn't even a warrant out for you.

wow. You're childish and nuts, aren't you?

 

[justinacolmena]

wow. You're childish and nuts, aren't you?

No. And I'm not stupid either.

 

[2aguy]

So how are you going to determine volume. All you got is the hope that a bad guy will turn in who ever sold him the gun. You know how pathetic that sounds?

Just like you hope the arrested drug dealer will turn in his source as well.......you use the same methods...no need for gun registration to do that...we can already arrest all the particpants.

 

[LuckyDuck]

The gun control freaks think that by banning firearms, there will no longer be mass killings and the Marxists just want them out of the public's hands so that they can implement a one-political party authoritarian government, able to implement any draconian laws they like.
CHINA: 29 dead and 130 injured when a small group of men went on a killing spree with knives.
7 killed and seven injured in knife attack by one person.
JAPAN: 19 dead and 25 injured by a mentally-deranged man with a knife.
8 dead and 15 injured by a mentally-deranged man with a knife.
INDIA: 22 dead via melee weapon (knife, hammer, club, et cetera) by an unknown soldier.
10 dead via melee weapon by an unknown attacker.
VIETNAM: 11 dead and 6 injured by a mentally-deranged man with an melee weapon.
All it ever takes is someone with a serious intention to kill a lot of people and a sharp implement, hammer, tire-iron, screwdriver, et cetera to do it with.
Oh, then of course there's the United States. Eight-times more people are murdered by knives than by rifles.

 

[justinacolmena]

Just like you hope the arrested drug dealer will turn in his source as well.......you use the same methods...no need for gun registration to do that...we can already arrest all the particpants.

I'd be more interested in airplane or boat registration if I were a LEO looking for wholesale drug dealers or suppliers.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I'm sorry. I'm so used to hearing that term from gun nuts till I just assumed you all used it. From my understanding, it's someone who sells a gun to someone who can't legally possess one. Effectively, exactly the same as an individual gun seller.

No a straw buyer is effectively the same as an unlicensed gun dealer, not a private seller.

 

[BULLDOG]

No a straw buyer is effectively the same as an unlicensed gun dealer, not a private seller.

What do you think a private seller is? He sells guns, yet he doesn't have a license to sell guns. Of course, he has no obligation to find out, or even care if his purchaser can legally own guns. If they have the money, he can sell the gun. His only concern is if it can be proven that he knew beforehand that the purchaser wasn't allowed to have guns. That is often very hard to prove, even if it is a relative.

 

[AZrailwhale]

What do you think a private seller is? He sells guns, yet he doesn't have a license to sell guns. Of course, he has no obligation to find out, or even care if his purchaser can legally own guns. If they have the money, he can sell the gun. His only concern is if it can be proven that he knew beforehand that the purchaser wasn't allowed to have guns. That is often very hard to prove, even if it is a relative.

No, a private seller is someone who sells one or two of his own guns that are surplus to his needs. NOT someone who goes out and buys guns to sell them. If a person is buying guns either from a retailer or a manufacturer to resell, he is legally a dealer and needs a Federal and sometimes State or Local license. I was a private seller when I travelled from California to Nevada to sell my AR15 to a dealer a couple of decades ago after selling them was banned in California. If I had bought an AR15 from that dealer and then sold it to someone in California I would have been a straw buyer. See the difference?