have you ever been rejected because of race

[Mortimer]

She is NOT a racist, and YOU are an illogical pile of pathetic insecurity. As I said, provide some evidence - direct evidence - of your accusation against me or retract it. And be quick about it, you corpulent cur.

ok i take back that you are racist, but you side with the wrong People, People who are racist. and yes she is racist.

She was trying to help you, you pathetic little man/child. Believe me! No one that has read any of your posts cares what your race is, but you. No one else cares if you're a virgin or you want to marry/date a virgin, but you.
You lay out these childish, horribly naive personal concerns and ask us to confirm your incredibly biased position and when you don't like what you hear, you call the very people trying to help you out racists? What the fuck is wrong with you? How fucking DARE you assume that you have a right to criticize anyone here.

you moron she didnt tried to help me, she right out spit into my face and continues to do so. and she made denigrating and generalising comments about my ethnic Group, that is why i call her racist

 

[Ernie S.]

I now have it on good authority that at least 2 farmers are going to use IM's avatar picture as the model for their scarecrows this year.

The IM Halloween mask is set to be released this year.

I hope it comes with a warning like you get on Discovery Fitness and Health when they're about to show an open chest cavity. There are a lot of people that could be psycologically scarred.

 

[Ernie S.]

ok i take back that you are racist, but you side with the wrong People, People who are racist. and yes she is racist.

YOUR obsession with race does not make HER racist, you illogical turd.

Yes she is racist, every sincere Person will see it when goes through her Posts.

You then, are the only sincere person in the discussion?

 

[syrenn]

ok i take back that you are racist, but you side with the wrong People, People who are racist. and yes she is racist.

She was trying to help you, you pathetic little man/child. Believe me! No one that has read any of your posts cares what your race is, but you. No one else cares if you're a virgin or you want to marry/date a virgin, but you.
You lay out these childish, horribly naive personal concerns and ask us to confirm your incredibly biased position and when you don't like what you hear, you call the very people trying to help you out racists? What the fuck is wrong with you? How fucking DARE you assume that you have a right to criticize anyone here.

you moron she didnt tried to help me, she right out spit into my face and continues to do so. and she made denigrating and generalising comments about my ethnic Group, that is why i call her racist

 

[Mortimer]

YOUR obsession with race does not make HER racist, you illogical turd.

Yes she is racist, every sincere Person will see it when goes through her Posts.

You then, are the only sincere person in the discussion?

seems so

 

[Ernie S.]

ok i take back that you are racist, but you side with the wrong People, People who are racist. and yes she is racist.

She was trying to help you, you pathetic little man/child. Believe me! No one that has read any of your posts cares what your race is, but you. No one else cares if you're a virgin or you want to marry/date a virgin, but you.
You lay out these childish, horribly naive personal concerns and ask us to confirm your incredibly biased position and when you don't like what you hear, you call the very people trying to help you out racists? What the fuck is wrong with you? How fucking DARE you assume that you have a right to criticize anyone here.

you moron she didnt tried to help me, she right out spit into my face and continues to do so. and she made denigrating and generalising comments about my ethnic Group, that is why i call her racist

Incredibly ironic, you calling me a moron. She was civil and offered advice to you until your feelings were hurt. You started a whole flame thread (that is well over 400 posts now) about her. No one would blame her for going after you in retaliation. The fact that you are losing miserably is NOT HER FAULT. The word racist doesn't fly here. If someone is really racist, he/she will end up with a red splat or two because EVERYONE recognizes it.
There is a reason why her reputation is the highest on the board and you are in the red. And it's not because SHE is a racist.

 

[Ernie S.]

Yes she is racist, every sincere Person will see it when goes through her Posts.

You then, are the only sincere person in the discussion?

seems so

asshole.

 

[TNHarley]

I cant believe I have had time to; get off work, break up with my GF, eat dinner and get drunk. Your PUSSY ass is STILL bitchin(on 2 different threads!)! Dude WTF

 

[Ernie S.]

Now he's threatening to leave USMB. What will we do for entertainment?

 

[emilynghiem]

ok i take back that you are racist, but you side with the wrong People, People who are racist. and yes she is racist.

She was trying to help you, you pathetic little man/child. Believe me! No one that has read any of your posts cares what your race is, but you. No one else cares if you're a virgin or you want to marry/date a virgin, but you.
You lay out these childish, horribly naive personal concerns and ask us to confirm your incredibly biased position and when you don't like what you hear, you call the very people trying to help you out racists? What the fuck is wrong with you? How fucking DARE you assume that you have a right to criticize anyone here.

you moron she didnt tried to help me, she right out spit into my face and continues to do so. and she made denigrating and generalising comments about my ethnic Group, that is why i call her racist

Dear IM: I am sorry to address this while you are still upset. I hope something I can share will help you calm down from the emotional insult and injury you feel right now, as these are the same methods I use when I start jumping up and down:

(1) there is nothing wrong with acknowledging a race-based remark. But that is different from calling the PERSON a "racist." Do you see the difference?
On her side, if she tries to correct a comment or behavior, that is talking about the action or the words; if she starts labeling YOU by association with a group, that crosses the line into a personal attack.
On your side, if you try to correct a comment or behavior, that again is talking about the action or the words; but when you start labeling HER personally, that become an attack.

(2) As for your feeling right now that you are the only sincere person, do you realize that other people feel the same way including Syrene? She feels she is just trying to express what she sees and feels honestly, and is met with personal attack that is painting her in an unfair manner (based on "association with a group"). Wow, that is exactly how you feel right now. Coincidence?

Calling you by a group name is just as hurtful and wrong as calling her or anyone by a label such as "racist" the comments and thoughts/associations we have may be racially biased, but there is no need to label and judge much less condemn and reject the whole person, especially when THAT is your grievance!

Do you see how you come across as blinded and biased toward yourself, in the same way you are upset that Syrene is coming across that way to you? Can you please step outside and look at it like a movie, where you and she are in a scene, arguing with each other, each seeing your side FIRST and blaming the other. Can you see that both people are just as hurt and insulted by being assumed or called things based on what you said in honest expression of your understanding that was taken to be biased.

IM if you don't like one person thinking he or she is the only person being honest and everyone else is blinded or biased, then don't go down that path either. It will only make you feel WORSE and more victimized. It is the wrong direction to go in healing of this.

What helps feel better is realizing you are both equally hurting each other.
The more you recognize that, the more other people realize they have hurt you.
When you understand you didn't mean to, so will the other person. It is mutual.

If you can see that you are just as sincere as she is in trying to talk honestly, given the fact you both have emotions when under personal attack, if you can see the fear and hurt is mutual, then you can see you are not alone! Everyone on this board goes through this, and has been jumped on or has reacted to someone based on what they said. We are not perfect. You are not the only one, okay? We are ALL human and this is the learning process. Welcome to the learning curve! I'm sorry it hurts so much, but just know she and others are upset too for the same reasons you feel so insulted right now. Please understand, and it will hurt less when you realize the pain and suffering is mutual, and it is all our responsibility to improve ourselves instead of focusing on other people going through this!

Yours truly,
Love, Emily

 

[emilynghiem]

I cant believe I have had time to; get off work, break up with my GF, eat dinner and get drunk. Your PUSSY ass is STILL bitchin(on 2 different threads!)! Dude WTF

Dear TNH: Lots of people use the boards and internet to vent as part of the healing process of whatever racism was experienced as he did in the past. Clearly this is his first attempt to share openly and he is not used to separating people's comments from the person, or the group perception in his mind. The pains embedded by racism and fear go very deep, and it takes time to work them all out; this is not something anyone can be expected to change overnight, and just "get over it". Early in the process, people will naturally project their past grief and then react strongly when they see someone else is doing it, but cannot see both people are expressing equal hurt and pain, they understand their own pain but don't know the other person's pain. Some people can do this for years, and barely budge an inch in terms of seeing the other people's side going through the same.

I'd rather people use words and internet to take out their grievances while they work through the process. I'd rather see BS fly than bullets. So I see this as a 'gift' that people can use forums this way, and just wish more people understood the process (similar to the 5 stages of grief and recovery) so when someone is still in the phases of anger and projection, we DON'T judge them for that but help them work through it and get PAST that stage.

You cannot skip the stages. I also go through Anger when I hit a wall and someone says something I take as out of line and misjudging me. Go through this CONSTANTLY and have to learn how to respond and resolve it WITHOUT getting personal. It takes years, so if he is new at this, he is going to make mistakes and project onto others the same way he doesn't like people projecting onto him. Just one lesson we all need to learn, and usually it's by real life experience making those mistakes and then having to recover afterward.

Take care and if he sticks around let's try to help him and each other not to project anger but work it out at the same time we address the real issues and ideas behind it.

I get angry too, and just try to focus on compassion to refocus and correct the problem.

The fact that he asked at all shows some openness to sharing, so I think he can get past this and get back to what he was originally trying to do in opening up dialogue. His intent is good and he shows willingness to listen and share when not under attack, and it's just the process that goes offtrack when people start expressing their feelings about past experiences. That's not any one person's fault more or less than any other.

I will post the Guidelines for Sharing in a separate post. The minute one person sees another as representing a group or stereotype or attitude and makes a generalization, then if someone answers by making another it just escalates. So it's best to avoid doing that in the first place because it's hard to recover once the defensiveness and attacks go in circles.
http://www.houstonprogressive.org I will copy and post below. Thanks

 

[emilynghiem]

King Jr. Martin Luther : "Men often hate each other because they fear each other; they fear each other because they don't know each other; they don't know each other because they can not communicate; they can not communicate because they are separated."

Bible: "Perfect Love casts out all Fear." "Speak the Truth with Love."

Kahlil Gibran: "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding."

Dear IM: I thank you for taking the step of opening up the topic and asking for sharing and dialogue. Unfortunately free speech online opens the door to all kinds of venting and projection because other people have gone through painful experiences as you have. I am sorry for this, but thank you for trying and encourage you to work this out. I ask you to please try to look at others as you see yourself, your pain is similar to what others hold deep down inside. When you feel targeted you react, and so does everyone else on here.

If you can see this, then you will never feel targeted or victimized again because you will realize everyone else feels just as vulnerable. Some people just hide it better. And using walls of negative language is one way we cut ourselves off for false security that does not solve the problem so we keep going through this until those walls finally come down. Like Dr. King's Quote, someone has to be the first to put love before fear and stop the cycle.

Please have compassion and understanding toward others as you want them to see you.
If we knew we were saying something that came across wrong, we wouldn't make that mistake; and same with others. Can you see the equal process going on here?

I am posting the Guidelines that experienced nonprofit volunteers and teachers use who have been moderating forums on racism for years, and know how to avoid the pitfalls or stop them when they start. Things I thought were just me sharing were stopped because they saw the way I said it would start going off track. It's easier to do that, so it takes experienced moderators to keep a forum from going to hell in a handbasket the minute you bring up racism and perceptions of it. This is not an easy topic as everyone is affected, but in different ways that others may not understand and think we are being blamed.

Please read and think about these guidelines, and I hope you can see where mistakes were made in this thread that went against these rules for keeping the sharing safe and open:

GUIDELINES FOR SHARING
http://www.centerforhealingracism.org

* We have come together to try to learn about the disease of racism and promote a healing process.
* Sharing is voluntary.
* We want to create a safe, loving and respectful atmosphere.
* Sharing is about one's own feelings, experiences, perceptions, etc.
* We are not always going to agree or see everything the same way and that's O.K.
* Each person has a right to and responsibility for his or her own feelings, thoughts, and beliefs.
* It is important to avoid criticism or judgement about another person's sharing, point of view, and/or feelings.
* Avoid getting tied up in debate and argument. It rarely changes anything or anyone and tends to ultimately inhibit the sharing.
* We can only change ourselves. Our change and growth may, however, inspire someone else.
* Refrain from singling out any individual as "representing" his or her group or issue.
* It is important to give full attention to whomever is talking.
* Feelings are important.
* We will surely make mistakes in our efforts, but mistakes are occasions for learning and forgiving.
* We may laugh and cry together, share pain, joy, fear, or anger.
* Hopefully we will leave these meetings with a deeper understanding

Following these Guidelines helps people to share their thoughts and feelings without projecting onto someone else and vice versa. If you've ever watched a talk show you know putting any group of people together to talk gets out of hand quickly. So the fact these volunteers created a whole outreach program to help facilitate forums and teach others how to speak and work productively to replicate these efforts says a lot about their work.

 

[emilynghiem]

have you ever been rejected and you suspected or knew it was because of your race. and how did you felt?

Yep. Applied for work at a Drug Rehab. as an undergrad and told I was qualified but they needed an African American for the job. I was pissed but got over it. In retrospect I understood it was less about race and more about one's ability to connect with the clients.

ok if you Count experiences outside dating i have been rejected entry into Clubs a few several times, because of "foreign" appearance (foreign is a codeword for not White)

Dear IM: A friend of mine from Turkey was constantly mistaken for being Cuban, Mexican, South American you name it. So when he wanted to travel to Colorado and California to visit Buddhist temples, he asked me to drive with him. So if he was stopped by law enforcement, I could vouch for him. He later went through law school and became an immigration attorney to help other working people as himself go through the application and naturalization process since he appreciated the opportunities he was given in the US.

So the fear of stereotyping about Mexicans and Latinos doesn't just affect people of those groups, but anyone who looks dark or tanned skinned and has an accent.

My friend overcame barriers by working on what he could do, not stewing about what other people threatened to do or said to him in ignorance about immigrants or Muslims, etc. He went through all that and just does his part to help himself and others. We can't let our fears take over and prevent us from being effective. Thanks for sharing, sorry things got out of hand. I hope you will get past that and come back and try again without taking any of the projection personally which tends to happen on the internet when people don't know each other. Every word or comment we say becomes suspect and people will associate you with this group or that attitude, etc. I've had people jump on me assuming I was all kinds of stuff I was not, because of things I said they took that way; sometimes this can be straightened out quickly, other times misperceptions aren't so each to change.

Don't give up by blaming others and running off, because that's why stereotypes and racism continue by walling people off instead of opening up and resolving our issues!

Please try again, and please make the equal commitment not to say things to people the way you hate them saying that about you. Mutual retribution does not fix anything but makes the negative perceptions worse. You'd have to go in the opposite direction of opening up and tearing down walls if you really want to get rid of the fear behind racism.

Take care and please keep working on this!
Dialogue and sharing IS the key, so your intent is right, it just
has to be moderately smoothly and it works well for everyone participating to bring people closer in understanding how similar we are!