Have you always had the political beliefs you have now?

[Kosh]

Being in the far left is like being scientology once you are in about the only way you can leave is feet first.

 

[Bfgrn]

Deficit spending like Reagan or Bush and taxation like Clinton or Obama still means both parties are big progressive parties.

The far left wants to go full scale socialist: not agonna happen.

The far right wants to go full scale libertarian: not agonna happen.

Even a Reaganite disagrees.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

No one is reading this evening but blowing wind out of their butt.

I was not making a point about who was responsible for the "debt explosion."

I was making a point that both parties are big progressive parties.

Stay on track.

On track Jake? REALLY??

There is nothing at all 'progressive' about the Republican party, and little 'progressive' about today's Democratic party.

Progressives tried to dismantle the oligarchy created by the Robber Barons. Today both parties are indentured servants of them.

Try to stay relevant.

 

[MikeK]

I was a registered Republican going back to Barry Goldwater and my political orientation was mainly conservative. I re-registered '03 when I realized what had become of the Republican Party. I joined the Democrat Party only because there is no Independent Party in New Jersey and I wish to vote in primaries.

There is a significant difference between Conservative and neo-Conservative thinking and there is no resemblance between pre-Reagan Republicans and those of today. Today's Republicans are receptive to corporatist propaganda.

 

[Iceweasel]

Please explain how 'borrow and spend' is a conservative tenet?

Herein lies your problem. Carter called for raising defense spending to 5.2 percent of GDP in his final budget for fiscal year 1981.

I didn't say it was. Reagan couldn't get all he wanted and the arms race was important. Borrowing and spending isn't necessarily non-conservative either. It depends. You tell me what's liberal about this:

Tax Cuts and Revenue: What We Learned in the 1980s | Cato Institute
Since most of the Reagan tax cuts applied to lower- and middle-income earners, there was close to a dollar lost in tax revenue for each “dollar” of tax cut for these groups. Still, CBO figures show that total tax revenue only fell from 19.2% of gross domestic product (GDP) in 1982, before most of Reagan’s tax-rate reductions were put in place, to 18.4% of GDP in 1989, the year he left office.

This happened because the U.S. economy grew by more than one-third in real terms (34.3%), much faster than the 24.3% rate expected even by economists within the Reagan administration. Thus, by the time President Reagan left office, the economy was generating more tax revenue at a maximum 28% rate than many on the left forecast it to generate at a maximum 70% rate.

 

[editec]

In 65 I was a fire breathing RANDIAN libertarian before the term Libertarian existed and before anybody I knew was reading Ayn Rand.

I bought her (so called) philosophy hook line and sinker back before I knew anything about my current society, my nations real history OR economics.

And then for a couple decades I was a DEM, until I started working with the Dems and realized just how fucked up and hypocritical most liberal leaders in the DEMS were, too.

So to say I have changed is a bit of an understandment.

I have gone from a citizen who believed that our nation's democratic republic worked, to a citizen who believes that we (or at least I) have been living in a POLTICAL DREAMWORLD most of our lives.

 

[Mac1958]

.

I was definitely a lefty (and I mean Grateful Dead & Birkenstocks lefty) until I entered college and journalism courses. It was at that time I was lucky enough to meet journalism Professor Ken Blase, who ended up being teacher/mentor/father figure/inspiration/lead cheerleader for me, and who would change my life.

He taught us how critical it was to never believe anything at face value, to always carefully examine all sides of an issue before forming a theory or an opinion, how important it was to challenge our own opinions, to be humble and honest when our opinions & theories had to change, and how to recognize the spin and general bullshit that distort and pollute, and to be brave in pointing it out. And to always, always be curious. I'll always be grateful for that, it served me well in the business and to this day.

Ken died a couple of weeks ago. Rest in peace, sir. Ya did good.

First time I've ever typed a post with tears in my eyes!



.

 

[BlackSand]

Oh how Harry Reid of you ... 500 sources indicating Churchill said it and one fool professor saying he didn't.
When are you Liberals going to understand that you cannot accuse everyone else of lying because it suits your needs?

.

Misattributed

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.

According to research by Mark T. Shirey, citing Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases, Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations by Ralph Keyes, 1992, this quote was first uttered by mid-nineteenth century French historian and statesman François Guizot when he observed, Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head. (N'être pas républicain à vingt ans est preuve d'un manque de cœur ; l'être après trente ans est preuve d'un manque de tête.) This quote has been attributed variously to George Bernard Shaw, Benjamin Disraeli, Otto von Bismarck, and others.

Furthermore, the Churchill Centre, on its Falsely Attributed Quotations page, states "there is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this." Paul Addison of Edinburgh University is quoted as stating: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?"

Variants: Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.

Show me a young conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.

If you are not a socialist by the time you are 25, you have no heart. If you are still a socialist by the time you are 35, you have no head


The Churchill Centre and Churchill Museum at the Cabinet War Rooms was founded in 1968 to educate new generations on the leadership, statesmanship, vision, courage and boldness of Sir Winston Churchill. Thousands of members around the world work together to impress the record Churchill's life and deeds on the 21st century. The Centre's exhibits are located at the Churchill War Rooms.

NOW WHAT???

Lolz ... I read the link you provided before I posted the quote that you responded to ... Along with the first page and a half of the 500 some odd links that say otherwise.
You posting the link and then coming back with it quoting what it says again ... Doesn't make that one source any more valid than it was before I posted the quote you responded to.

Which is pretty much what I indicated in the post you chose to respond to after that.
Thanks for supporting my point you are will to go with one source over any number of others if it suits your desires ... Along with the usual suspects.

.

 

[Listening]

What Churchhill may have said or not said really does not matter. Several folks on this board has shown that they have made that transition.

The left loves to quote the "research" that shows that people really don't become more conservative with age, but that often makes references to ideology. There is practical aspect of both ideologies that is being lost in the current political climate.

Living independent and free of most of today's current regulations is what many conservatives say they want. However, they like that people can't pull a trailer home in next to their two story house. That kind of dynamic will always exist.

I do see many people who tend to behave more conservatively (not in a political sense) as they get older.

Even if Churchhill said it.....so what ? It isn't gospel. That he didn't say it does not mean anything either.

People do what people do. And (again), as many have stated... they've shifted to the right with time. From what I read there are more in that category than those who have moved in the opposite direction.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Even a Reaganite disagrees.

"The debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
David Stockman - Director of the Office of Management and Budget for U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

No one is reading this evening but blowing wind out of their butt.

I was not making a point about who was responsible for the "debt explosion."

I was making a point that both parties are big progressive parties.

Stay on track.

On track Jake? REALLY??

There is nothing at all 'progressive' about the Republican party, and little 'progressive' about today's Democratic party.

Progressives tried to dismantle the oligarchy created by the Robber Barons. Today both parties are indentured servants of them.

Try to stay relevant.

You don't understand that Progressive means big government involvement in political, social, and cultural affairs using the power of government to effect change?

Use real definitions, please.

 

[Bfgrn]

Oh how Harry Reid of you ... 500 sources indicating Churchill said it and one fool professor saying he didn't.
When are you Liberals going to understand that you cannot accuse everyone else of lying because it suits your needs?

.

Misattributed

If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.

According to research by Mark T. Shirey, citing Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases, Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations by Ralph Keyes, 1992, this quote was first uttered by mid-nineteenth century French historian and statesman François Guizot when he observed, Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head. (N'être pas républicain à vingt ans est preuve d'un manque de cœur ; l'être après trente ans est preuve d'un manque de tête.) This quote has been attributed variously to George Bernard Shaw, Benjamin Disraeli, Otto von Bismarck, and others.

Furthermore, the Churchill Centre, on its Falsely Attributed Quotations page, states "there is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this." Paul Addison of Edinburgh University is quoted as stating: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?"

Variants: Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.

Show me a young conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.

If you are not a socialist by the time you are 25, you have no heart. If you are still a socialist by the time you are 35, you have no head


The Churchill Centre and Churchill Museum at the Cabinet War Rooms was founded in 1968 to educate new generations on the leadership, statesmanship, vision, courage and boldness of Sir Winston Churchill. Thousands of members around the world work together to impress the record Churchill's life and deeds on the 21st century. The Centre's exhibits are located at the Churchill War Rooms.

NOW WHAT???

Lolz ... I read the link you provided before I posted the quote that you responded to ... Along with the first page and a half of the 500 some odd links that say otherwise.
You posting the link and then coming back with it quoting what it says again ... Doesn't make that one source any more valid than it was before I posted the quote you responded to.

Which is pretty much what I indicated in the post you chose to respond to after that.
Thanks for supporting my point you are will to go with one source over any number of others if it suits your desires ... Along with the usual suspects.

.

Bonjour...ROFLMAO!

Hey BS...do you date a French model?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOzAgpxg5wE]French Model State Farms Commercial - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mertex]

Where I grew up everyone was a democrat, supported unions, pro abortion, etc. Luckily I got an education and threw those shackles off and will never vote democrat. With age comes wisdom I guess.

You voted for torturers, mass murderers and a Mormon who wears magic underwear, and then talk about Conservative wisdom?

Not to mention how the Republican party treats vets.....

 

[Mertex]

Lolz ... I read the link you provided before I posted the quote that you responded to ... Along with the first page and a half of the 500 some odd links that say otherwise.
You posting the link and then coming back with it quoting what it says again ... Doesn't make that one source any more valid than it was before I posted the quote you responded to.

Which is pretty much what I indicated in the post you chose to respond to after that.
Thanks for supporting my point you are will to go with one source over any number of others if it suits your desires ... Along with the usual suspects.

.

There's more credible links that claim your quote was never uttered by Churchill. The information I provided in my response, which you conveniently ignored, because you know your claim is nothing but BS, clearly makes it ridiculous to credit Churchill with such a quote, since he was a Liberal still, when he was 35.....and didn't become a conservative again until he was 50.

But, even if he did become a conservative at age 50....that was in 1924, and no way in hell were the Republicans of 1924 like the looney bird Republicans of today.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/342645-have-you-always-had-the-political-beliefs-you-have-now-6.html#post8705286

 

[RandallFlagg]

For example, if you are leftwing now, were you ever rightwing?


I was rightwing in high school because my dad was republican. Now luckily I think for myself and will never look back. I'm 27 now. Things are so much clearer.

I started out supporting JFK - as a black man, to me - he was a big deal. After I learned what a sleaze bag he was, I vowed never to vote for a democrat again - and I haven't. I was a republican until the end of Reagan's term and I then walked away from the party. I have been an Independent ever since. Right now, at this point in time, there is not a viable candidate on EITHER side of the aisle that I would vote for. They are ALL worthless lumps of human flesh.

You're 27. Good for you. I'm 69. I have seen the world in my lifetime. I have seen what makes things work and what doesn't. This country is in deep, deep trouble. At this point in time, I am heartsick about the direction this country is headed.

At 27 - you have only started out in life. You have a long, long way to go. You will change your views many times over the course of the next 30-40 years. I promise you. Let us all pray that you have a country still standing in 30-40 years for you to be ALLOWED to change your views in. Right now, I don't see much of a chance of that happening.

Good luck to you and yours.

 

[Spoonman]

For example, if you are leftwing now, were you ever rightwing?


I was rightwing in high school because my dad was republican. Now luckily I think for myself and will never look back. I'm 27 now. Things are so much clearer.

for the most part I have many of the same political views I always had. the biggest problem I have is the political party that used to represent most of my values has changed so drastically the no longer do. they have come to represent the extremes the most lunatic fringes of their policies. to the point they are no longer practical or effective. they have also taken to selling out the people they represent. They do not respect the founding principles of this country anymore, things like the constitution. they have become subversive to progress and enact policies that foster complacency.

so while my ideals remain very similar, they are no longer have political representation.

 

[BlackSand]

There's more credible links that claim your quote was never uttered by Churchill. The information I provided in my response, which you conveniently ignored, because you know your claim is nothing but BS, clearly makes it ridiculous to credit Churchill with such a quote, since he was a Liberal still, when he was 35.....and didn't become a conservative again until he was 50.

But, even if he did become a conservative at age 50....that was in 1924, and no way in hell were the Republicans of 1924 like the looney bird Republicans of today.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/342645-have-you-always-had-the-political-beliefs-you-have-now-6.html#post8705286

It isn't my quote ... I went with the majority of the links ... And mentioned I read the link he posted prior to posting my response to his question "Who are they".

He is the one who asked ... "Who are they" ... Then went to the trouble of trying to correct someone like me by providing a link identifying who "they" are.
Just another example of how disingenuous and intellectually vacant the poster was in asking a question for no other purpose than correcting whoever answered it.

That fits right up your alley ... The same bullshit you leftist are too familiar with.
You think you are fooling people when you are nothing more than Bfgrn dingleberry on this one.
It just figures you would jump in on that wagon.

.

 

[Mertex]

There's more credible links that claim your quote was never uttered by Churchill. The information I provided in my response, which you conveniently ignored, because you know your claim is nothing but BS, clearly makes it ridiculous to credit Churchill with such a quote, since he was a Liberal still, when he was 35.....and didn't become a conservative again until he was 50.

But, even if he did become a conservative at age 50....that was in 1924, and no way in hell were the Republicans of 1924 like the looney bird Republicans of today.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/342645-have-you-always-had-the-political-beliefs-you-have-now-6.html#post8705286

It isn't my quote ... I went with the majority of the links ... And mentioned I read the link he posted prior to posting my response to his question "Who are they".

You said you agreed with it, and claimed to be part of the "they" who say that, and then you quoted a version of the quote giving Churchill credit for it, so I guess that makes it your quote in the sense that you posted it....and unless you counted all the links for and against, you can't claim to go with the majority....the links that I found all said that Churchill wasn't the author, and the background information I gave you on Churchill very much proves it.

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.” ~ Winston Churchill
I agree with it so that means Churchill, Rocko (although thinks it is a joke) and me are part of the "they" you are asking about ... And anyone else can join if "they" so choose.

Then you go and claim 500 sources vow that Churchill said it, and only "one fool" professor is saying he didn't, and blast all liberal of accusing you of lying because it suits our needs.
You didn't list 500 sources, and it isn't only one professor that has refuted the claim that Churchill said it, so who's the one that is lying now to suit their own needs......but even if only one professor had refuted it, if you would bother to read Churchill's background, you would realize how utterly ridiculous your claim is. Of course you won't admit it, because it suits your needs and just proves that conservatives accuse others of doing what they do best.

Oh how Harry Reid of you ... 500 sources indicating Churchill said it and one fool professor saying he didn't.
When are you Liberals going to understand that you cannot accuse everyone else of lying because it suits your needs?

He is the one who asked ... "Who are they" ... Then went to the trouble of trying to correct someone like me by providing a link identifying who "they" are.
Just another example of how disingenuous and intellectually vacant the poster was in asking a question for no other purpose than correcting whoever answered it.

It isn't vacuous to ask someone to identify the "they" in their pronouncements, because as it turns out the majority of times, the "they" is none other than themselves. In this instant, it is probably Republican/conservatives who haven't taken the time to check out Churchill's political background and realize how foolish they appear when they make such inane statements.

That fits right up your alley ... The same bullshit you leftist are too familiar with.
You think you are fooling people when you are nothing more than Bfgrn dingleberry on this one.

Show me where Churchill was a conservative when he was 35 and you might sound credible, otherwise you are just irate because your bullshit has been called out and you have no defense, and all the things you accuse Liberals of being are just your way of deflecting what you are all about.

And like I mentioned before, even though Churchill did go back to conservatism when he was 50, the conservative policies of 1924 are nowhere near the ridiculous policies of today's conservatives. Even Reagan, which most conservatives drool over, would be way to liberal for uptight right wingers such as yourself.

It just figures you would jump in on that wagon.

When you generalize and accuse all liberals of doing what you yourself are doing, damn right you are going to be called out. I guess you thought you were just going to float right on with your bullshit, didn't you.

 

[HenryBHough]

Churchill was articulate and he cleaned up nice.

See, he was the prototype for Your New Messiah!

 

[Listening]

Who cares what Churchhill said.

The question is:.........

 

[nodoginnafight]

For example, if you are leftwing now, were you ever rightwing?


I was rightwing in high school because my dad was republican. Now luckily I think for myself and will never look back. I'm 27 now. Things are so much clearer.

I was pretty far to the right up to about age 35-40.

I've soften a bit a moved to the center in my old age. Well at least I embrace some positions that are considered right wing (Fiscally very conservative; anti-abortion with health-of-the-mother exception; etc .) and some positions that are considered to the left (OK with gay marriage; favor a progressive income tax).

 

[Pogo]

For example, if you are leftwing now, were you ever rightwing?


I was rightwing in high school because my dad was republican. Now luckily I think for myself and will never look back. I'm 27 now. Things are so much clearer.

Of course not. If personal philosophy isn't continuously evolving from new information and education, you're brain dead.

It's too simplistic to shunt everything into simple "right" and "left" boxes though. Or to pretend that they're some kind of static definition, let alone a useful catch-all term.