Hate Speech Laws Are Wrecking Europe

[Phoenall]

I don't suppose having laws about civil discouse actually creates civil discourse. I think it's more connected to how things escalate through speech. We have great examples here on the forum.

No matter how hard you try you cant legislate on what people think, much to the annoyance of neo marists and other looney lefties.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Hate laws are to prevent the incitement of violence against groups.
A poster mentioned Serbia as an example. That is a country that suffered the worst possible ethnic violence just a few years ago. Is it unreasonable that they want to prevent that ?
You are able to discuss issues and you are also able to criticise.
What you cant do is spread hate based on prejudice. Obviously this presents a problem for the haters in our midst.

 

[Phoenall]

Hate laws are to prevent the incitement of violence against groups.
A poster mentioned Serbia as an example. That is a country that suffered the worst possible ethnic violence just a few years ago. Is it unreasonable that they want to prevent that ?
You are able to discuss issues and you are also able to criticise.
What you cant do is spread hate based on prejudice. Obviously this presents a problem for the haters in our midst.

Like you and the rest of the lunatic fringe left wing scum who hate anyone that that is proud of their country and distrusts the mass murdering child rapists and their neo Marxist enablers. Are you proud of your achievements starting with the starvation of 10 million in the Ukraine. Then the mass murders in Cambodia, Russia and China, followed by the mass rapes of hundreds of thousands of 12 year old girls in the UK. Is it any wonder you are so hated by all of civilisation after these atrocities in the name of your political dogma.

 

[protectionist]

Freedom of speech does not mean that you can tell lies about people does it. I live in Europe and I have yet to see anyone getting into trouble for criticizing the koran and islam if the criticism is based of facts and the truth. You need to get your facts straight and start telling the truth as we have laws in Europe against slander. You do realise that the racial and religious hatred act is exactly the same as your civil rights acts, and this means that if you LIE to incite hatred and intolerance you face legal action.

You Americans feel the need to make many acts that are criminal in civilised nations allowable in the US by amending the declaration to cover these. This is why the US is such a lawless nation and has no safety for its citizens of visitors.

FALSE! In the USA there is no hate speech, and the US civil right acts DO NOT cover what someone may construe as "hate speech"..The notion of banning hate speech in the US has been firmly put to rest 3 times over the years by the US Supreme Court in 3 separate cases >>

1. Brandenburg v. Ohio

2. R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul

3. Snyder v. Phelps

The fact that you are ignorant of what is going on in your own continent and country, means nothing other than you are quite likely a typical victim of liberal media, which carefully and consistently filters out reporting about Muslim atrocities, terrorism (except for the most extreme), and thousands of instances of Islamization. So as an informed American protectionist, well read on the subject, allow me to cure your European, information-deprived mind to tell you you have MASSIVE problem with hate speech stopping your media from reporting, and resulting in the ignorance that you now display.

In the US, we have laws against slander and libel, which ban lying against anyone whereby that lying results in some evident damage of some kind. No surprise there. That has nothing to do with Islam.

I can't cite here the thousands of instances involved in what has turned your previously admirable continent into a pathetic, Chamberlain-like train wreck of appeasement to Islamists and jihadist. But as ocurred in the 1940s, I suspect it will be incumbent upon us Americans to rescue you dimwits, from the conquest of your countries, by yet another wave of fascism and lunacy, which you have improperly/insufficiently stood up to.

It is this appeasement of Islam, and the difficulty (if not impossibility) to speak out properly and condemn Islam for its many contradictions to western morality and law, that has resulted in the UK, France, Denmark, and other European nations to become the lawless nations that they are, overrun by uncivilized, barbaric, Muslim savages, who adhere to their insane Islamic law, while disregarding the laws of their European nations, thereby resulting in a pitiful situation of no safety for its citizens or visitors.

You are very naive and uninformed. If you want to educate yourself, and you can get past the fences that your liberal media masters set up for you, you can get MANY FACTS about the Islamization of Europe (and the US), and terrorism of it in the book They Must Be Stopped by Brigitte Gabriel, and yes, I said FACTS of HISTORY, so don't even think about pulling out that INVALIDATION CARD that liberals think they can brush reality away with. Here's a few tidbits of information about Muslims rearranging their Western nations to suit their own deranged Islamic cuktures and laws, but these representing only a tiny sample of thousands too many to list) >>

Muslim forces anesthetist from operating room

Hairdresser sued over Muslim headscarf ban

You might also try Googling >> Eurabia, Lorenzo Vidino, Day of Anger, Sharee Council, sukuk, Salim Mulla, bans on piggy banks, www.islamonline.net, Theo Van Gogh, Ahmed Salam & Rita Verdonk, Piet Hein Donner, foot-washing basins, prayer rooms. Lina Morales, Sum of All Fears, Michael Graham, Thomas Klocek, Major Stephen Coughlin, the Fort Hood massacre, the San Bernardino massacre, the Paris massacre. London train bombing, Boston Marathon bombing, Madrid train bombing etc etc etc All resulted from appeasement of muslim Islamization.

Here's more recommended reading >>

Stealth Jihad by Robert Spencer

Try reading these books, if you've got the guts for it. And oh yes, try reading the Koran (as I have read 18 translations of it, since 1959).

 

[protectionist]

Hate laws are to prevent the incitement of violence against groups.
A poster mentioned Serbia as an example. That is a country that suffered the worst possible ethnic violence just a few years ago. Is it unreasonable that they want to prevent that ?
You are able to discuss issues and you are also able to criticise.
What you cant do is spread hate based on prejudice. Obviously this presents a problem for the haters in our midst.

By labeling the criticism of Islam, ie, the Koran, as criminal (under law of any Western nation), you are inviting a massive tidal wave of criminal activity by Muslims who see their Islamic law as being supreme over all other law. And in case your liberal media has insulated you from it all, that tidal wave is taking place right now. Problem is their Islamic law OKs all THIS >>

1. Wife -beating (Koran 4:34)

2. Rape (Koran 4:24, 23: 1-6, 70:29-30, 2;223)

3. Pedophilia (Koran 65:4)

4. Lying (Koran 16:106, 3:28)

5. Murder (Koran 8:12, 9:5, 9:123, et al)

6. Slavery (Koran 24:32-33, et al)

7. Torture (Koran 5:33, 8:12, 24:2, + numerous quotes in the Hadith)

8. Animal cruelty (Eid al-Adha)

9. Sex discrimination against women (Koran 2:223, 4:34, 4:11, 2:282, 4:24, 4:3)

PS - if, as you say, "What you cant do is spread hate based on prejudice", then that means that Islam and the Koran should be banned (as technically they are in the USA)

 

[protectionist]

They aren't what is ruining Europe is neo Marxists enacting new laws to make it illegal to tell the truth about islam and the muslims. They are losing the fight as the people are no longer voting them into power.

You contradicted yourself. "laws to make it illegal to tell the truth about islam and the muslims" are precisely the hate speech laws that this OP is referring to.

 

[protectionist]

I live in Europe and I have yet to see anyone getting into trouble for criticizing the koran and islam if the criticism is based of facts and the truth. .

On 4 March 2010, a jury returned a verdict of guilty against Harry Taylor, who was charged under Part 4A of the Public Order Act 1986. Taylor was charged because he left anti-religious cartoons in the prayer-room of Liverpool's John Lennon Airport on three occasions in 2008. The airport chaplain, who was insulted, offended, and alarmed by the cartoons, called the police.[12][13][14] On 23 April 2010, Judge Charles James of Liverpool Crown Court sentenced Taylor to a six-month term of imprisonment suspended for two years, made him subject to a five-year Anti-Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) (which bans him from carrying religiously offensive material in a public place), ordered him to perform 100 hours of unpaid work, and ordered him to pay £250 costs. Taylor was convicted of similar offences in 2006.[15]

On 8 December 2009, Mr Justice Richard Clancy, sitting at Liverpool Magistrates' Court, acquitted Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang, hoteliers, of charges under the Public Order Act 1986 and under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. The Vogelensangs were charged after a guest at their hotel, Ericka Tazi, complained that the Vogelenzangs had insulted her after she appeared in a hijab.[16]

On 2 September 2006, Stephen Green was arrested in Cardiff for distributing pamphlets which called sexual activity between members of the same sex a sin. On 28 September 2006, the Crown advised Cardiff Magistrates Court that it would not proceed with the prosecution.[17][18]

On 13 October 2001, Harry Hammond, an evangelist, was arrested and charged under section 5 of the Public Order Act (1986) because he had displayed to people in Bournemouth a large sign bearing the words "Jesus Gives Peace, Jesus is Alive, Stop Immorality, Stop Homosexuality, Stop Lesbianism, Jesus is Lord". In April 2002, a magistrate convicted Hammond, fined him £300, and ordered him to pay costs of £395.[19][20][21]

Hate speech laws in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is important to note that while the case of Geert Wilders et al who have been arrested on hate speech violations, are significant, it is even more significant to note all the arrests that HAVE NOT occurred, because the people who wished to speak out DID NOT SPEAK OUT, because they are intimidated by these hate speech laws.

It is equally important to note that it is this NON-SPEAKING, this artificial silence, that is giving Muslims (unencumbered by criticism) a green light to carry on with all the criminal behavior (ie, criminal under Western concepts/laws) that their crazy Islamic law defines as acceptable, and which they encouraged to do this things -murder, rape, wife-beating, pedophilia, etc- (if not commanded todo them) by their Koran.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Hate laws are to prevent the incitement of violence against groups.
A poster mentioned Serbia as an example. That is a country that suffered the worst possible ethnic violence just a few years ago. Is it unreasonable that they want to prevent that ?
You are able to discuss issues and you are also able to criticise.
What you cant do is spread hate based on prejudice. Obviously this presents a problem for the haters in our midst.

By labeling the criticism of Islam, ie, the Koran, as criminal (under law of any Western nation), you are inviting a massive tidal wave of criminal activity by Muslims who see their Islamic law as being supreme over all other law. And in case your liberal media has insulated you from it all, that tidal wave is taking place right now. Problem is their Islamic law OKs all THIS >>

1. Wife -beating (Koran 4:34)

2. Rape (Koran 4:24, 23: 1-6, 70:29-30, 2;223)

3. Pedophilia (Koran 65:4)

4. Lying (Koran 16:106, 3:28)

5. Murder (Koran 8:12, 9:5, 9:123, et al)

6. Slavery (Koran 24:32-33, et al)

7. Torture (Koran 5:33, 8:12, 24:2, + numerous quotes in the Hadith)

8. Animal cruelty (Eid al-Adha)

9. Sex discrimination against women (Koran 2:223, 4:34, 4:11, 2:282, 4:24, 4:3)

PS - if, as you say, "What you cant do is spread hate based on prejudice", then that means that Islam and the Koran should be banned (as technically they are in the USA)

You are ignorant of the UK laws. And a bit obsessive as well.

 

[protectionist]

You are ignorant of the UK laws. And a bit obsessive as well.

Yeah ? But I mentioned Part 4A of the Public Order Act 1986. And some people who were arrested under it, ordered to do unpaid work and fined.

And I mentioned section 5 of the Public Order Act (1986) and someone who was arrested and fined under that.

And I mentioned the Vogelenzangs, were charged under the Public Order Act 1986 and under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.

And I mentioned Stephen Green who was held in a police station for four hours, and was charged with using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress after he refused to accept a caution from the force's Minorities Support Unit.

And I provided source links for all these. Looks like I know a few things about the UK laws.

And oh, Excuse me ? Did they say "Minorities Support Unit" ? Whaaatt ??? Am I reading this right ? These nutty Brits actually have a unit within their police force, to give support to minorities ? Talk about "obsessive". What kind of equality is that ? Sounds discriminatory against Whites. Kind of like our racist anti-white affirmative action programs we have here in the states.

Hey, maybe I can qualify for that. I'm Danish, German, Welsh, and Belizean. Surely I must fit into that somewhere. The Brits (and Europeans) all have gone bonkers in pandering to Muslims, whose mores and way of life simply doesn't fit Western society. They need to NOT BE IN IT. There's the obsession right there. That crazy pandering

 

[Phoenall]

Freedom of speech does not mean that you can tell lies about people does it. I live in Europe and I have yet to see anyone getting into trouble for criticizing the koran and islam if the criticism is based of facts and the truth. You need to get your facts straight and start telling the truth as we have laws in Europe against slander. You do realise that the racial and religious hatred act is exactly the same as your civil rights acts, and this means that if you LIE to incite hatred and intolerance you face legal action.

You Americans feel the need to make many acts that are criminal in civilised nations allowable in the US by amending the declaration to cover these. This is why the US is such a lawless nation and has no safety for its citizens of visitors.

FALSE! In the USA there is no hate speech, and the US civil right acts DO NOT cover what someone may construe as "hate speech"..The notion of banning hate speech in the US has been firmly put to rest 3 times over the years by the US Supreme Court in 3 separate cases >>

1. Brandenburg v. Ohio

2. R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul

3. Snyder v. Phelps

The fact that you are ignorant of what is going on in your own continent and country, means nothing other than you are quite likely a typical victim of liberal media, which carefully and consistently filters out reporting about Muslim atrocities, terrorism (except for the most extreme), and thousands of instances of Islamization. So as an informed American protectionist, well read on the subject, allow me to cure your European, information-deprived mind to tell you you have MASSIVE problem with hate speech stopping your media from reporting, and resulting in the ignorance that you now display.

In the US, we have laws against slander and libel, which ban lying against anyone whereby that lying results in some evident damage of some kind. No surprise there. That has nothing to do with Islam.

I can't cite here the thousands of instances involved in what has turned your previously admirable continent into a pathetic, Chamberlain-like train wreck of appeasement to Islamists and jihadist. But as ocurred in the 1940s, I suspect it will be incumbent upon us Americans to rescue you dimwits, from the conquest of your countries, by yet another wave of fascism and lunacy, which you have improperly/insufficiently stood up to.

It is this appeasement of Islam, and the difficulty (if not impossibility) to speak out properly and condemn Islam for its many contradictions to western morality and law, that has resulted in the UK, France, Denmark, and other European nations to become the lawless nations that they are, overrun by uncivilized, barbaric, Muslim savages, who adhere to their insane Islamic law, while disregarding the laws of their European nations, thereby resulting in a pitiful situation of no safety for its citizens or visitors.

You are very naive and uninformed. If you want to educate yourself, and you can get past the fences that your liberal media masters set up for you, you can get MANY FACTS about the Islamization of Europe (and the US), and terrorism of it in the book They Must Be Stopped by Brigitte Gabriel, and yes, I said FACTS of HISTORY, so don't even think about pulling out that INVALIDATION CARD that liberals think they can brush reality away with. Here's a few tidbits of information about Muslims rearranging their Western nations to suit their own deranged Islamic cuktures and laws, but these representing only a tiny sample of thousands too many to list) >>

Muslim forces anesthetist from operating room

Hairdresser sued over Muslim headscarf ban

You might also try Googling >> Eurabia, Lorenzo Vidino, Day of Anger, Sharee Council, sukuk, Salim Mulla, bans on piggy banks, www.islamonline.net, Theo Van Gogh, Ahmed Salam & Rita Verdonk, Piet Hein Donner, foot-washing basins, prayer rooms. Lina Morales, Sum of All Fears, Michael Graham, Thomas Klocek, Major Stephen Coughlin, the Fort Hood massacre, the San Bernardino massacre, the Paris massacre. London train bombing, Boston Marathon bombing, Madrid train bombing etc etc etc All resulted from appeasement of muslim Islamization.

Here's more recommended reading >>

Stealth Jihad by Robert Spencer

Try reading these books, if you've got the guts for it. And oh yes, try reading the Koran (as I have read 18 translations of it, since 1959).

So I can go up to any American and proclaim loudly that I have evidence of them being involved in child sex rings and making snuff movies and they cant do a thing about it. According to you such hate speech is allowed and it is no wonder America has gone down the pan and why you are seen as a nation of ambulance chasers

 

[Phoenall]

You are ignorant of the UK laws. And a bit obsessive as well.

Yeah ? But I mentioned Part 4A of the Public Order Act 1986. And some people who were arrested under it, ordered to do unpaid work and fined.

And I mentioned section 5 of the Public Order Act (1986) and someone who was arrested and fined under that.

And I mentioned the Vogelenzangs, were charged under the Public Order Act 1986 and under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.

And I mentioned Stephen Green who was held in a police station for four hours, and was charged with using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress after he refused to accept a caution from the force's Minorities Support Unit.

And I provided source links for all these. Looks like I know a few things about the UK laws.

And oh, Excuse me ? Did they say "Minorities Support Unit" ? Whaaatt ??? Am I reading this right ? These nutty Brits actually have a unit within their police force, to give support to minorities ? Talk about "obsessive". What kind of equality is that ? Sounds discriminatory against Whites. Kind of like our racist anti-white affirmative action programs we have here in the states.

Hey, maybe I can qualify for that. I'm Danish, German, Welsh, and Belizean. Surely I must fit into that somewhere. The Brits (and Europeans) all have gone bonkers in pandering to Muslims, whose mores and way of life simply doesn't fit Western society. They need to NOT BE IN IT. There's the obsession right there. That crazy pandering

Yet not one person was charged with hate speech that had not stepped over the line, and that is the deciding factor. Not like in America where it is the amount of money you have that decides if you are guilty of any crime or not. We know how far we can go in our hate speech before it becomes a crime, just as if what we say is true and can be shown to be true then no crime has been committed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't see how hate speech laws are "ruining Europe".

Anytime speech is restricted it doesn't end well

Restricting speech restricts the free flow of information pretty soon the only speech that will be legal is what the government wants

It's the modern day equivalent to heresy laws of the dark ages

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I don't see how hate speech laws are "ruining Europe".

Anytime speech is restricted it doesn't end well

Restricting speech restricts the free flow of information pretty soon the only speech that will be legal is what the government wants

It's the modern day equivalent to heresy laws of the dark ages

No, its about trying to live together in a tolerant and respectful society.

One mans personal beliefs should not over-ride another mans right to live in a safe and respectful way.

If people cant offer a service to all of society then they should not be in business. Its deeply offensive to suggest that I can pick and choose my customers based on colour or sex or religion or sexuality.

My "right" becomes their oppression.

If we all respect our differences we can get along just nicely.

 

[Phoenall]

I don't see how hate speech laws are "ruining Europe".

Anytime speech is restricted it doesn't end well

Restricting speech restricts the free flow of information pretty soon the only speech that will be legal is what the government wants

It's the modern day equivalent to heresy laws of the dark ages

So allowing only that speech that YOU see as not being hate speech is what again ?

Its like the old methods of control, arrest without charge those that speak out against your agenda until only your followers are left. Make lying illegal and you stop the neo Marxists and muslims dead in their tracks

 

[Phoenall]

I don't see how hate speech laws are "ruining Europe".

Anytime speech is restricted it doesn't end well

Restricting speech restricts the free flow of information pretty soon the only speech that will be legal is what the government wants

It's the modern day equivalent to heresy laws of the dark ages

No, its about trying to live together in a tolerant and respectful society.

One mans personal beliefs should not over-ride another mans right to live in a safe and respectful way.

If people cant offer a service to all of society then they should not be in business. Its deeply offensive to suggest that I can pick and choose my customers based on colour or sex or religion or sexuality.

My "right" becomes their oppression.

If we all respect our differences we can get along just nicely.

Only one problem with that, the neo Marxists, muslims and do gooders don't want the truth they want to manipulate what people think.
It is even more offensive to say you cant refuse to serve someone because you don't agree with their customs and culture. Yet you defend muslims doing this every day, so much so that now businesses have a get out to hiring muslims and use it all the time. I saw this first hand when I was working and a muslim came for a Job, part of the duties was to clean the toilets to which he readily agreed. If it was against his religion he could say so and lose about 5% of his pay as a consequence. This task was spread out over a workforce of 100 people and so was done once every 100 days. The toilets in question were those from Islamic nations and were easy to clean using a hose pipe and mop. Two weeks into his employment he refused to clean the toilets as it was against his religion, he was brought up before the shift manager who asked him why he lied in his initial interview and said he had no problems with cleaning the toilet. He went from a fully conversant British person to a semi literate backwards muslim in mid sentence when he said " I do not understand ". As his union representative I was called in to follow procedure and he said to me in an aggressive and very forceful manner " get me off or else I will sort you out ". Suffice it to say that he was sacked on the spot and the police called to arrest him for making threats.

This is what we need freedom of speech laws for, so that the likes of him cant use them when things go wrong.

 

[Correll]

I don't suppose having laws about civil discouse actually creates civil discourse. I think it's more connected to how things escalate through speech. We have great examples here on the forum.

The Hate Speech Laws are only part of the problem.

The problem is that it inhibits or suppresses honest discussion of real problems.

 

[Correll]

I don't see how hate speech laws are "ruining Europe".

Anytime speech is restricted it doesn't end well

Restricting speech restricts the free flow of information pretty soon the only speech that will be legal is what the government wants

It's the modern day equivalent to heresy laws of the dark ages

No, its about trying to live together in a tolerant and respectful society.

One mans personal beliefs should not over-ride another mans right to live in a safe and respectful way.

If people cant offer a service to all of society then they should not be in business. Its deeply offensive to suggest that I can pick and choose my customers based on colour or sex or religion or sexuality.

My "right" becomes their oppression.

If we all respect our differences we can get along just nicely.

Tell it to the children of Rotherham.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

No, its about trying to live together in a tolerant and respectful society.

Such as all those tolerant and respectful Muslim rape gangs you always defend?

It takes a special kind of idiocy to promote such enormous double standards that one group has to be tolerant of anything and everything while another group has no need to be tolerant of anything at all.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No, its about trying to live together in a tolerant and respectful society.

Such as all those tolerant and respectful Muslim rape gangs you always defend?

It takes a special kind of idiocy to promote such enormous double standards that one group has to be tolerant of anything and everything while another group has no need to be tolerant of anything at all.

Yes, thats an amazing interpretation of what I said. Are you on drugs ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't see how hate speech laws are "ruining Europe".

Anytime speech is restricted it doesn't end well

Restricting speech restricts the free flow of information pretty soon the only speech that will be legal is what the government wants

It's the modern day equivalent to heresy laws of the dark ages

No, its about trying to live together in a tolerant and respectful society.

One mans personal beliefs should not over-ride another mans right to live in a safe and respectful way.

If people cant offer a service to all of society then they should not be in business. Its deeply offensive to suggest that I can pick and choose my customers based on colour or sex or religion or sexuality.

My "right" becomes their oppression.

If we all respect our differences we can get along just nicely.

A society that gags people is not a tolerant one

Intolerance in the name of tolerance is still intolerance