Has Fascism come to America?

[justoffal]

Trump is straight up ignoring a USSC order. And wants to 'deport' US citizens to foreign prisons, prisons he claims is beyond judicial review.

I'm still stunned at how gleefully eager MAGA supplicants are to imprison people in foreign prisons who have been convicted of no crime, charged with nothing, and given no opportunity to defend themselves in any course.

Folks are literally just disappeared. And MAGA cheers.

First of all judicial review and this country has devolved into nothing more than obstruction of justice. Secondly the man who was deported to El Salvador as MS-13 ties. Insisting that there's no proof is mentally vacant. The Salvadorans have been dealing with this for 5 years and they know who this guy is.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Have they been convicted of any violation of any law? In the US or El Salvador?

I'm just trying to clarify. If they are illegal immigrants, they should be entitled to a Title 8 hearing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Insisting that there's no proof is mentally vacant.

So, where's the beef?

 

[justoffal]

Were they illegal immigrants?

Exactly...... Not having been convicted of a higher crime is now the new standard for them.

 

[Skylar]

First of all judicial review and this country has devolved into nothing more than obstruction of justice.

So trials, evidence, charges, convictions, due process, even a judicial review....is all 'obstruction of justice'?

Again, people are being snatched off the street and put into foreign prisons INDEFINITELY, despite having been convicted of no crime.

Secondly the man who was deported to El Salvador as MS-13 ties. Insisting that there's no proof is mentally vacant. The Salvadorans have been dealing with this for 5 years and they know who this guy is.

The man who was deported to El Salvador has MS-13 ties....says who?

What crime was he convicted of? What act of violence did he commit? Based on what evidence?

When pressed on the issue, JD Vance fumbled awkwardly about TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS.

 

[Rambunctious]

What Is Fascism?

According to this source there are 5 stages of Fascism.

Stage 1: Emerging out of disillusionment

Covid lockdowns, economic downturn and supply chain meltdowns, inflation, political instability (false claims of 2020 election fraud), etc.

Economic crisis spurs a nationalist political movement blaming immigrants and ethnic minorities for the country’s turmoil.


Stage 2: Establishing Legitimacy as a Political Party

The Trumpification of the Republican Party


Popular mobilization

… fascist regimes seek to energize public participation in society through government-organized channels. Both Mussolini and Hitler, for instance, drew massive crowds in rallies intended to stir up enthusiasm for the country, the party, and the leader.

Trump has the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers as his “Blackshirts” – fascist citizen militias loyal to Trump. Trump has also pardoned them from any crimes or violence on his behalf and made it clear his DoJ will not prosecute them for anything in the future . In addition to those more organized militias he has a fervent and large core of MAGA followers willing to commit populist violence on his behalf. January 6 is the defining moment for the movement.

Of note, like Mussolini’s Fascism – Trump’s fascist militants have skirmished with groups like ANTIFA, and leftist protestors (labeled socialists and Marxists) protesting his policies.

Like other Fascist groups, the MAGA movement also blames specific groups for the country’s seeming demise and undermining efforts to make America Great AGAIN.

Immigrants (not just illegal immigrants), Black People, DEI, Transgender people.

 

[Skylar]

I'm just trying to clarify. If they are illegal immigrants, they should be entitled to a Title 8 hearing.

If they have been convicted of any crime, you should be able to show me.

You can't. That's my point exactly. There's your clarification. You don't 'disappear' people into foreign prisons without charges, conviction, a trial, due process, or judicial review.....for indefinite incarceration

....unless you're the Trump administration.

And remember, Trump lied his ass off when he said it only be the most dangerous, violent criminals. Yet 179 out of 230 have they've been convicted of no violent crimes. Or any crimes at all.

And MAGA cheers this shit. Demonstrating they NEVER gave a shit about the constitution, freedom, rights, liberty, or due process.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If they have been convicted of any crime, you should be able to show me.

You can't. That's my point exactly. There's your clarification. You don't 'disappear' people into foreign prisons without charges, conviction, a trial, due process, or judicial review.....for indefinite incarceration

....unless you're the Trump administration.

And remember, Trump lied his ass off when he said it only be the most dangerous, violent criminals. Yet 179 out of 230 have they've been convicted of no violent crimes. Or any crimes at all.

And MAGA cheers this shit. Demonstrating they NEVER gave a shit about the constitution, freedom, rights, liberty, or due process.

When it comes to this kind of tribalism, nobody gives a shit about the Constitution---not left nor right.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If they have been convicted of any crime, you should be able to show me.

You can't. That's my point exactly. There's your clarification. You don't 'disappear' people into foreign prisons without charges, conviction, a trial, due process, or judicial review.....for indefinite incarceration

....unless you're the Trump administration.

And remember, Trump lied his ass off when he said it only be the most dangerous, violent criminals. Yet 179 out of 230 have they've been convicted of no violent crimes. Or any crimes at all.

And MAGA cheers this shit. Demonstrating they NEVER gave a shit about the constitution, freedom, rights, liberty, or due process.

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg%3D%3D_cb93249d-e5f8-440e-a987-4efc488c5a18

 

[Skylar]

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg%3D%3D_cb93249d-e5f8-440e-a987-4efc488c5a18

And what crime have they been convicted of? Show me, don't tell me.

Remember, we're disappearing people off the streets with ZERO trial, charges, convictions, due process, or judicial review and imprisoning them indefinitely in foreign prisons.

That's Stasi level shit.

 

[Skylar]

When it comes to this kind of tribalism, nobody gives a shit about the Constitution---not left nor right.

Yeah, the moral equivalence game doesn't in anyway excuses or mitigate MAGA pulling people off the street and disappearing them, imprisoning them INDEFINITELY without charges, convictions, trials, due process, or even judicial review.

Again, if they can do this to illegals, they can do this to US Citizens. As when could you possibly object if you were snatched up by MAGA and put into a foreign gulag? MAGA insists you have no access to any trial, judicial review, or even a hearing.......and are beyond judicial review once you've been imprisoned with no charges for any crime.

Trump is already calling for the 'deportation' of US Citizens, giving us the same bullshit 'but only the violent criminals' claims that he used when disappearing 230 people to El Salvador.....despite 179 of them being convicted of NO crime, let alone a violent one.

And Trump is even now trying to invoke wartime powers during peace time using the Alien and Sedition Act. The very act cited by the US government when they interned US citizens in camps.

All while Trump flagrantly ignores court orders, even the Supreme Court.

And MAGA cheers.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yeah, the moral equivalence game doesn't in anyway excuses or mitigate MAGA pulling people off the street and disappearing them, imprisoning them INDEFINITELY without charges, convictions, trials, due process, or even judicial review.

It's not moral equivalence, it's a statement of fact Skylar. It's inexcusable when anyone does it.

And I can't help but note you don't ever get this up in arms when the left engages in similar behavior.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And what crime have they been convicted of? Show me, don't tell me.

I showed you, and told you. I left it up to your comprehension, which seemingly is never satisfied.

 

[Skylar]

It's not moral equivalence, it's a statement of fact Skylar. It's inexcusable when anyone does it.

And I can't help but note you don't ever get this up in arms when the left engages in similar behavior.

Whataboutry? That's it? When did Biden snatch people off the street and disappear them them to foreign prisons without so much as a hearing?

And I can't help but note that as these vile violations of basic rights are occurring RIGHT NOW, in violation of court orders, where people are literally being snatched off the streets and without charges, convictions, trials, legal representation, hearings or even judicial review........being sent to foreign prisons INDEFINITELY....

......you're fixated on 'the left'.

All while MAGA cheers. If they can do this to illegals, they can do it to you, Templar.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Whataboutry? That's it? When did Biden snatch people off the street and disappear them them to foreign prisons without so much as a hearing?

Might I mention J6?

Both sides have engaged in this behavior.

Stop dodging. It isn't moral equivalence if you have proof both sides have engaged in similar tactics.

 

[Skylar]

I showed you, and told you. I left it up to your comprehension, which seemingly is never satisfied.

Nope. You didn't show me a single conviction of any crime for 179 of those that were disappeared.

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg%3D%3D_cb93249d-e5f8-440e-a987-4efc488c5a18

Neither the word 'conviction' nor 'crime' appear anywhere in your link. Demonstrating the lie that you've already 'shown me' what crimes they were convicted of.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Nope. You didn't show me a single conviction of any crime for 179 of those that were disappeared.

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg%3D%3D_cb93249d-e5f8-440e-a987-4efc488c5a18

Neither the word 'conviction' nor 'crime' appear anywhere in your link. Demonstrating the lie that you've already 'shown me' what crimes they were convicted of.

You're being foolish.

Illegal entry is a crime in and of itself.

I'm moderate, not stupid.

 

[Skylar]

Might I mention J6?

Are you saying that J6 didn't get due process, trials, hearings, access to representation? Are you saying that J6 were sent to foreign prisons? That they were beyond judical review?

Show me.

They were charged with ACTUAL crimes, in ACTUAL courts, with ACTUAL arraignments and ACTUAL hearings, many with ACTUAL plea deals, ACTUAL convictions in ACTUAL trials.

So much for your moral equivilancy. 179 people imprisoned indefinitely in foreign prisons for NO crime, with NO charges, NO hearings and NO conviction of ANY crime.

Both sides have engaged in this behavior.

Stop dodging. It isn't moral equivalence if you have proof both sides have engaged in similar tactics.

Obvious

Every J6 defendant had charges, arraignments, representation, hearings and judicial review. Not one was sent by the US to a foreign prison. And many had plea deals where they admitted to their crimes, or were convicted of crimes by trial and sentenced in yet another hearing

You know all of this. And yet you pretend its the same as snatching someone off the street with no hearing, no charges, no convictions, no representation, and imprisoned indefinitely in foreign prisoned.

Um, no.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are you saying that J6 didn't get due process, trials, hearings, access to representation? Are you saying that J6 were sent to foreign prisons? That they were beyond judical review?

Some were held inordinate amounts of time without trials. A few of them died before they were tried.

Location is irrelevant.

 

[Skylar]

You're being foolish.

Illegal entry is a crime in and of itself.

I'm moderate, not stupid.

Don't tell me. SHOW ME. You're literally ignoring your own source, as we both know it doesn't show ANY convictions of any crime, nor even mention crimes or convictions.

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMg%3D%3D_cb93249d-e5f8-440e-a987-4efc488c5a18

Show me any conviction for any crime from that 179 folks in your own link.

You can't. And you know you can't. These people were snatched off the street and without charges, trial, hearing, or representation.......sent to foreign prisons indefinitely.