Has Fascism come to America?

[Coyote]

Yeah, and that's the danger of ideology. It makes everything a shallow, combative zero sum game, all or nothing. It's destructive, but our current political "system" (ha) incentivizes and rewards the very worst impulses of its participants. Unless we CHOOSE to fix the system, there are no brakes on this.

And regarding some attraction to Marxism, going in that direction would also be a shitty, self inflicted wound. We have completely misapplied capitalism, making other options more attractive. Many of those who claim to support capitalism (usually they're the loudest) think that any kind of guardrails or regulation are the bane of capitalism. The fact is, smart, efficient regulation is a critical component of capitalism. We should have learned that from the Meltdown, but we CHOSE not to.

You summed the current climate succinctly:
Zero sum
All or nothing
Winners and losers

Well said Mac

 

[DonGlock26]

Obama loved to bow.

 

[Coyote]

That in itself implies fascism, otherwise, how would one designedly shift culture to a specific place?

Not necessarily. Cultural shifts can occur organically, from grass roots, until enough people support it that it reaches a tipping point and laws are changed. Same sex marriage would be an example.

It isn’t “by design” but by years of normalizing it, it then becomes the new status quo.

Other cultural shifts can occur through media, particularly social media.

None of those require an autocratic or fascist government to implement.

Toob quote:
If it leads to a truly level playing field, that is one thing, but creating inclusivity and equity for some (minorities) at the expense of the majority, is just a new form of discrimination. (End quote)

I agree, and maybe that sentiment is driving some of the backlash…but is it necessarily at the expense of another?

 

[Coyote]

REmember when the media told the American people that Trump said that nazis were "very fine people"?

He said there were very fine people on both sides.

Now, how many times have your rightist media distorted or lied about Obama or Biden or tbe Democrats? Is it harmful to America? Should those media outlets be destroyed?

What you are advocating is that only media you deem favorable to your leader or ideology or cause should be considered legitimate and allowed.

Don’t you see how that is fascist?

That was a massive lie. That was insanely divisive and fanned the flames of hate and racial conflict.

That is not reporting the news. That is lying in order to cause harm to America.

The media, teh legacy media needs to be destroyed.

 

[Coyote]

Sure.... If they have anarchistic thoughts best they keep them to themselves if they are not natural born citizens.

Who defines “anarchistic”? I have a feeling that can come to mean anything a person in power wants it to, as is happening now.

 

[Coyote]

Trump offers individual freedom.

What individual freedom?

Freedom to protest Israel’s War on Gaza?
Freedom to criticize the president?
Academic freedom?
Journalistic freedom?
Right to due process?
Freedom from persecution?

Every one of those has been trashed by this administration.

Personal responsibility.

No. Just no. Of all the administrations in my lifetime, both Republican and Democrat, this administration takes the cake in it’s lack of personal responsibility and accountability.

Note: in lieu of taking personal responsibility…
Blame immigrants
Blame the left
Blame transgenders
Blame Blacks, Muslims, Hispanics

And most of all….if you can’t get out of it, blame your underlings.

The progressive left offers bigger government, no first amendment rights and total control of thought and action.

Case closed

False and ridiculous.

 

[toobfreak]

Not necessarily. Cultural shifts can occur organically, from grass roots,

I'm not so sure anymore that our CIA doesn't somehow have a hand in steering most sudden cultural changes here.

I agree, and maybe that sentiment is driving some of the backlash…but is it necessarily at the expense of another?

If you follow the precepts of DEI, apparently it is.

 

[Nostra]

He said there were very fine people on both sides.

Now, how many times have your rightist media distorted or lied about Obama or Biden or tbe Democrats? Is it harmful to America? Should those media outlets be destroyed?

What you are advocating is that only media you deem favorable to your leader or ideology or cause should be considered legitimate and allowed.

Don’t you see how that is fascist?

He said there were fine people on both sides of the statue debate. He specifically condemned the supremacists in the same speech, but apparently your handlers have yet to feed that to you.

 

[justoffal]

Who defines “anarchistic”? I have a feeling that can come to mean anything a person in power wants it to, as is happening now.

Oh I dunno..... Marching in the streets and screaming death to America and death to Israel doesn't help.

Violating your visa by becoming a political rabble arousal doesn't help. The first amendment doesn't apply to Visa applicants.

Organizing and funding anti-semitic protests on college campuses doesn't help.

None of those are first amendment rights and absolutely none of them are rights of a visa applicant.

 

[Coyote]

Joe Biden and Barry Obumma both used government to harass and restrain the press from investigating them (James Rosen), and among other things, not to carry negative stories that made Joe look bad, to carry certain stories and news angles, etc., just for example. And to attack and harass Trump and other political adversaries for purely political reasons (no defined crime that would have been charged against any other person); that falls under the umbrella of fascism AFAIC.

How was the press harassed not to carry negative stories about Biden?

Why do overlook or excuse Trumps actions in both his terms? Attacks on election workers, whistle blowers, critics or those disagreed with him - attacks for political reasons and worse, directed at nonpolitical people.

Aside from all that, Trump is not unique in fighting with the media. Biden, Obama, GW Bush all had a go at it (particularly regarding leaks) but none have carried it as far as Trump has or been so thin skinned.

There was an excellent bipartisan bill with popular support on both sides designed to protect journalists from revealing confidential sources except under very specific conditions. Trump, prior to taking office, told them to kill it. They did. Trump is now specifically going after the media to get at confidential sources or intimidate them into silence and we aren’t talking about spilling nuclear secrets.

This would destroy investigative journalism which relies on people, often at risk of retaliation, to feel safe enough to talk. Think of all the scandals that would never have been written on had the informant not been confidential. And this isn’t just about “leftwing media” or MSM - it is protecting the ability to report for ALL media, even the loathsome O’Keefe, Gateway Pundit, etc.

Fascist and Authoritarian governments need to control or restrict the free media and free speech to hold on to power.

 

[Coyote]

Oh I dunno..... Marching in the streets and screaming death to America and death to Israel doesn't help.

Except…how many were doing that? In all these protests, very few, but they are coming through social media and going after anyone supports Palestinian rights or an end to the war in Gaza and reframing it as …what exactly…? They can’t come up with a crime, they can’t even find advocation or support of violence, terrorists or terrorism, so they are essentially saying we are deporting people solely for expressing a view that we disagree with.

Violating your visa by becoming a political rabble arousal doesn't help. The first amendment doesn't apply to Visa applicants.

Visa applicants don’t yet have a visa so there are no rights. For those that do, yes the do have some First Amendment Protections:

Are Non-Citizens Protected by the First Amendment?

Are non-citizens protected by the First Amendment? The answer isn't as clear-cut as you may think. Here's everything to know.

www.freedomforum.org

Organizing and funding anti-semitic protests on college campuses doesn't help.

The problem is that the definition of Antisemitic has come to mean everything and anything and is being used, not to stamp out antisemitism but the stamp out free speech.

Organizing and funding:
Protests to end the War
Protests to bring attention to the plight of civilians in Gaza
Objecting to Israel’s conduct in the war
Calling for the US to change it’s policies
Disinvesting from Israel.

All now considered “antisemitic”. All are First Anendment rights so long as they are peaceful and do not call for violence.

All things that in the context of any other conflict or country would be considered legitimate free speech. None of which is illegal unless it explicitly calls for violence or death to specific people or groups.

and…some other First Amendment rights…
The KKK can March down a public street
The Neo Nazis can gather in a public square with their signs and tiki torches.

However loathsome it’s legitimate.

None of those are first amendment rights and absolutely none of them are rights of a visa applicant.

So…is there a reason you keep referring to visa applicant rather visa holder? There is a difference.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not so sure anymore that our CIA doesn't somehow have a hand in steering most sudden cultural changes here.


If you follow the precepts of DEI, apparently it is.

How?

 

[toobfreak]

How was the press harassed not to carry negative stories about Biden?

Seriously? You should know that, it is old news. Obumma practically put James Rosen in prison just for doing his job. All of the places from Facebook and Twitter to MSM have all accounted how they were intimidated and pressured not to run any negative press on Biden while running as much negative crap as possible on Trump.

This would destroy investigative journalism

Journalism depends on the freedom of the Press to collect and report the facts. But too often, they are merely generating political spin and yarn, and if we did that, it would be slander and libel. The Press should not be free to make stuff up with impunity to help effect political outcome.

Fascist and Authoritarian governments need to control or restrict the free media and free speech to hold on to power.

You just called Obumma and Biden both fascists. I'll reserve judgement on Trump a little longer.

 

[toobfreak]

How?

Why are you asking me things I'm sure you already know or should at the very least just try looking up? Worse, I'm sure there have been at least a dozen threads here expounding the plans and agendas of DEI programs to promote targeted minorities over whites.

 

[Nostra]

How was the press harassed not to carry negative stories about Biden?

Why do overlook or excuse Trumps actions in both his terms? Attacks on election workers, whistle blowers, critics or those disagreed with him - attacks for political reasons and worse, directed at nonpolitical people.

Aside from all that, Trump is not unique in fighting with the media. Biden, Obama, GW Bush all had a go at it (particularly regarding leaks) but none have carried it as far as Trump has or been so thin skinned.

There was an excellent bipartisan bill with popular support on both sides designed to protect journalists from revealing confidential sources except under very specific conditions. Trump, prior to taking office, told them to kill it. They did. Trump is now specifically going after the media to get at confidential sources or intimidate them into silence and we aren’t talking about spilling nuclear secrets.

This would destroy investigative journalism which relies on people, often at risk of retaliation, to feel safe enough to talk. Think of all the scandals that would never have been written on had the informant not been confidential. And this isn’t just about “leftwing media” or MSM - it is protecting the ability to report for ALL media, even the loathsome O’Keefe, Gateway Pundit, etc.

Fascist and Authoritarian governments need to control or restrict the free media and free speech to hold on to power.

The press didn’t have to be harassed. They did it willingly and gleefully.

 

[Skylar]

Why yes. It has. MAGA!

Seriously though, I never thought I would see this.


Source: What Is Fascism?

“Many experts agree that fascism is a mass political movement that emphasizes extreme nationalism, militarism, and the supremacy of the nation over the individual. This model of government stands in contrast to liberal democracies that support individual rights, competitive elections, and political dissent.

In many ways, fascist regimes are revolutionary in nature. They advocate for the overthrow of existing systems of government and the persecution of political enemies. However, such regimes are also highly conservative in their championing of traditional values.

And although fascist leaders typically claim to support the everyman, in reality, their regimes often align with powerful business interests.”


Sound familiar? It should.

Existing forms of government are being overthrown through the destruction of our institutions with the Executive usurping powers traditionally given to Congress and openly defying the courts when checked.

Note the last line: aligned with powerful business interests: Musk (who is raking in millions in government contracts), Bezos, Zuckerberg.


Characteristics of Facism:

Extreme Nationalism - check.

Fascist leaders believe in the supremacy of certain groups of people based on characteristics such as race, religion, ethnicity, and nationality.


Cult of personality - check.

Fascist regimes cultivate images of their leaders as great figures to be loved and admired. This cult of personality is often perpetuated through mass media and propaganda. …The Pope chalked up Il Duce’s survival of assassination attempts to divine intervention, adding to Mussolini’s mystique.


How did Fascists come to power? This is interesting, because it tracks what has actually been happening.

“It wasn’t overnight. History laid the groundwork – a pattern of liberal decay.

First, fascist parties gained a foothold in government through initially democratic means. However, over time, the party consolidated power, and ultimately secured their dictatorship.”

Note: Trump is seeking ways for a 3rd term and a Congressman is creating a bill to create a path to a 3rd term that only applies to Trump’s situation.

Trump is straight up ignoring a USSC order. And wants to 'deport' US citizens to foreign prisons, prisons he claims is beyond judicial review.

I'm still stunned at how gleefully eager MAGA supplicants are to imprison people in foreign prisons who have been convicted of no crime, charged with nothing, and given no opportunity to defend themselves in any course.

Folks are literally just disappeared. And MAGA cheers.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Trump is straight up ignoring a USSC order. And wants to 'deport' US citizens to foreign prisons, prisons he claims is beyond judicial review.

I'm still stunned at how gleefully eager MAGA supplicants are to imprison people in foreign prisons who have been convicted of no crime, charged with nothing, and given no opportunity to defend themselves in any course.

Folks are literally just disappeared. And MAGA cheers.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say, if previous governments hadn't vilified them, treated them like second rate citizens, canceled them, or otherwise impugned them for no reason, they may not be resorting to such extremes.

But on the other hand, this is some Stasi shit. Hands down.

 

[Skylar]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say, if previous governments hadn't vilified them, treated them like second rate citizens, canceled them, or otherwise impugned them for no reason, they may not be resorting to such extremes.

But on the other hand, this is some Stasi shit. Hands down.

oh, its absolutely some Stasi shit. Trump is trying to invoke wartime powers in peacetime. The very wartime powers that the US government used to create internment camps for US citizens. He insists its only for the most violent criminals. Yet 179 of the 230 or so folks shipped off without judicial review have been convicted of NO crime.

Trump wants to 'deport' US citizens to foreign prisons. The Trump administration is simply disappearing people. And if he can disappear illegals without judicial review to prisons beyond judicial review.....he can do it to US Citizens.

If you were snatched up by the government, you'd have no opportunity to fight the 'deportation' to a foreign prison. And once you're there, you're 'beyond judicial review'. Says who? Says Trump. You're simply incarcerated, indefinitely, with no conviction of any crime, no due process, no rights, and no recourse.

That's fascist as ****.

And MAGA cheers.....apparently so ******* ignorant of history that they think these brazen violations of basic rights would never happen to them.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yet 179 of the 230 or so folks shipped off without judicial review have been convicted of NO crime.

Were they illegal immigrants?

 

[Skylar]

Were they illegal immigrants?

Have they been convicted of any violation of any law? In the US or El Salvador?

Again, the promise Trump made was that these powers would only be used against the most violent criminals.

Yet there's no convictions of ANY violent crimes. Or any crimes at all for 179 out of about 230. The overwhelming majority. Demonstrating that the lie of Trump's claims.

And how little MAGA cares that people are literally being disappeared, with no rights, no trials, no convictions, no due process, no judicial review......to be imprisoned indefinitely.

And MAGA cheers. Demonstrating elegantly that they don't give the slightest **** about rights, freedoms, free speech, due process, or the constitution.