Handguns vs. AR-15s

[Big Bend Texas]

That conservatives are cowards who fear facts and the truth, such as a rifle/carbine chambered in a round with a MV in excess of 3200 fps and the effect that round has on the human body.

But conservatives’ fear is unwarranted – AR 15s won’t be banned, the same for 30 round magazines, nor should they be; bans don’t work and represent government excess and overreach.

You're lying out of your ass, as a group we're far better versed in terminal ballistics than you folks every will be.

I could line up 10 people standing back to front and with a single shot from any of my 30 caliber or larger cartridges pass a bullet through each of them consecutively with enough energy remaining to kill a deer standing behind them.

This just just more blood and gore being peddled by anti gun zealots who don't know the first thing about the firearms they are trying to ban.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

The survival rate from handgun wounds is much higher than the survival rate of AR-15 wounds.

Simple fact.

You should then be able to provide statistics supporting that claim including figures as to where they are struck in the body with both for any sort of honest comparisons to be made.

They would also have to be made with the same type of bullet IE JHP, RNFP, or non expanding military ball ammo and with similar impact velocities.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yes. Even though long guns writ large (not just the AR platform but all rifles combined) account for less than 3 percent of all murders committed via firearm it's worse somehow because of how it looks. I guess that fits in with "assault weapons" are bad because they look scary mantra. Im pretty sure the dead could care less if they were shot with an AR, 9mm or bashed over the head with a 2x4.

It is a question of lethality and damage.

People Kill People. But the Bullets Seem to Matter. (Published 2019)

Handgun caliber has been getting bigger over recent decades, even as murder rates have fallen. New research suggests that if the guns had stayed the same, homicides would have declined even more.

www.nytimes.com

This study does focus on handguns. But if you look at the graphs you see a trend. The more powerful the bullet, the greater the likelihood of death.

For example. A 9MM the odds of dying are about 57%. For a .357 Magnum, the odds of death increase to 72%.

I went with those two because they are essentially the same bullet. A .357 Magnum is about 9.05 MM. it weighs about one grain more than the 9 MM round. It just travels a lot faster and does a lot more damage when it hits.

Now the study doesn’t include rifle rounds. But we can draw some conclusions from the available data. That is that the more powerful rounds are more deadly.

This matters to the victims. A better chance at survival. It gives the medical people a fighting chance to save your life if you are shot.

I’ve said for years if we get rid of the semi auto rifles the really dangerous people will start using even bigger calibers in proper long guns. A hunting rifle chambered for the old 30.06 will do a lot more damage than a .223 REM round.

A shotgun for that matter will be even more deadly since the victim is hit with multiple projectiles at once. A full load of buckshot would be as if the baddie dumped a magazine from a .32 cal pocket pistol into the victim.

 

[eagle1462010]

The only thing crystal clear is how idiotic this post is.

No one wants to ‘punish’ gun owners.

BS

 

[tshrimp]

Is there a point to all of this?

Summary. He wants the government to take your guns.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This is a lie.

Guns aren’t going to be ‘confiscated.’

And the notion of ‘arming teachers’ is as idiotic as it is disastrous – teachers with guns will only result in more children being killed.

Stop lying

 

[BluesLegend]

Stop lying

Lying is what they do.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Are you seeing what dictator Trudy just did in Canada?

They are come for our guns. You can lie to yourself all you want.

WE WILL GIVE NOT ONE INCE!!!!!!

Both are fucking idiots.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

It is a question of lethality and damage.

People Kill People. But the Bullets Seem to Matter. (Published 2019)

Handgun caliber has been getting bigger over recent decades, even as murder rates have fallen. New research suggests that if the guns had stayed the same, homicides would have declined even more.

www.nytimes.com

This study does focus on handguns. But if you look at the graphs you see a trend. The more powerful the bullet, the greater the likelihood of death.

For example. A 9MM the odds of dying are about 57%. For a .357 Magnum, the odds of death increase to 72%.

I went with those two because they are essentially the same bullet. A .357 Magnum is about 9.05 MM. it weighs about one grain more than the 9 MM round. It just travels a lot faster and does a lot more damage when it hits.

Now the study doesn’t include rifle rounds. But we can draw some conclusions from the available data. That is that the more powerful rounds are more deadly.

This matters to the victims. A better chance at survival. It gives the medical people a fighting chance to save your life if you are shot.

I’ve said for years if we get rid of the semi auto rifles the really dangerous people will start using even bigger calibers in proper long guns. A hunting rifle chambered for the old 30.06 will do a lot more damage than a .223 REM round.

A shotgun for that matter will be even more deadly since the victim is hit with multiple projectiles at once. A full load of buckshot would be as if the baddie dumped a magazine from a .32 cal pocket pistol into the victim.

Your odds of dying are much more dependent on where you are hit rather that what you are hit with.

These folks don't even know what they don't know and aren't willing to listen or learn.

Handguns are a far bigger issue when it comes to all sorts of violent crime and are used about half the time in mass shootings as well.

That being the case if they do manage to ban "Assault Rifles" we know handguns will immediately follow.

AW's are seen as the low hanging fruit because they are scary to anti gun idiots that don't know jack about guns and ballistics but since the early seventies the real target has always been handguns.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

The only thing crystal clear is how idiotic this post is.

No one wants to ‘punish’ gun owners.

Then why is it that all of the solutions proposed by democrats focus on infringing the rights of the law abiding rather than focusing on the criminals and those likely to commit such shootings?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I didn't say any of that, you infered. I simply made a factual statement about how the emotive is the primary tool in politics. I also never said it was only one party that uses the emotive, in fact the emotive approach makes up at least 80% of all politics.

Democrats base their beliefs on emotions not Republicans. So please stop saying both parties do it.

 

[SavannahMann]

Your odds of dying are much more dependent on where you are hit rather that what you are hit with.

These folks don't even know what they don't know and aren't willing to listen or learn.

Handguns are a far bigger issue when it comes to all sorts of violent crime and are used about half the time in mass shootings as well.

That being the case if they do manage to ban "Assault Rifles" we know handguns will immediately follow.

AW's are seen as the low hanging fruit because they are scary to anti gun idiots that don't know jack about guns and ballistics but since the early seventies the real target has always been handguns.

There are four ways in which a bullet kills.

1) Instant kill. That means the bullet hits the head and ends the brain or the heart. Yes it could hit the spine and sever the ability to send signals to the heart and lungs. But instant kill is actually hard to manage.

2) Exsanguination. This is where the body runs out of blood. The victim bleeds to death. Greater tissue damage coupled with bigger or more holes speeds this process.

3) Suffocation. The individuals lungs are destroyed or damaged sufficiently that they do not receive enough Oxygen. Death is the result. A “Sucking Chest Wound” will result in this sort of death as an example.

4) All others. The above deaths can be planned for. It is why we tell people to aim Center Mass. the odds of a wound sufficient to kill using those is more likely.

All others is the rest of the things. The things you can’t plan for. Shock, a bit of bone or fat getting into the blood stream and resulting in a blockage causing a heart attack or stroke. Lead from the bullet causing lead poisoning. The possible but unlikely scenarios.

The point of the article I posted was that your odds of dying go up with larger more powerful cartridges. Let’s take the 9 MM versus .357 again. The same wound with the two rounds is very different.

First. The Magnum will have greater penetration. That means more destroyed tissue and greater flow of blood from those destroyed tissue. Even missing the head or heart is likely to be fatal.

The Statistics in the article bear that out. 72% of those shot with a .357 died. While only 57% of those shot with a 9 MM died.

Now I can link to other articles and example videos. And in the end you will be right that it matters where you are hit. But it is also true that it matters what you are hit with.

I selected my weapons and calibers because I wanted as close as I could get to a doubling. A .357 is not quite twice as powerful as a 9 MM. round. A .223/5.56 is not quite twice as powerful as the .357. The 30.06 is not quite twice as powerful as the .223.

But each one is a step up. A really big step.

 

[iceberg]

Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

A bad knife cut? Biden said a 9mm blows a lung out.

This is why no one takes the left seriously.

 

[Ringel05]

Democrats base their beliefs on emotions not Republicans. So please stop saying both parties do it.

I love self rationalization....... It's sooooo predictable and sooooo funny......

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I love self rationalization....... It's sooooo predictable and sooooo funny......

It's a fact democrats go with emotions republicans don't

 

[Ringel05]

It's a fact democrats go with emotions republicans don't

Oh I'm quite sure you completely convinced yourself of that. I guess no republican has ever put out an attack ad........ Never in the entire history of the party........ Republicans don't generalize, stereotype and diminish their opponents?

 

[TNHarley]

ummm hollow points?
What a stupid thread based on research by the ignorant.
Another fantastic failure from our resident authoritarian reagan conservative!
Hey jackass, after we ban ARs, are we going to compare knife wounds to hand guns?
You give those fuckers an inch, and they will take a mile. And your faggot ass just walks right into the rabbit hole.

 

[marvin martian]

Is there a point to all of this?

Control and tyranny. As always.

 

[Canon Shooter]

And the notion of ‘arming teachers’ is as idiotic as it is disastrous – teachers with guns will only result in more children being killed.

Why do you believe that?

 

[Canon Shooter]

Your odds of dying are much more dependent on where you are hit rather that what you are hit with.

The .22 caliber was a favorite of the mob for hits...