Hamas Leader Killed

[Shusha]

How can one return to a place they've never been to?

It is a collective right, not an individual right.

 

[horselightning]

It is a collective right, not an individual right.

not palestine land jewish land

 

[Shusha]

Here's the "preamble" if I understand what you mean by that:


Where does it say that territory was "allocated to the Jewish people" ?

So pedantic.

the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country

as will secure the Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations establishment of the Jewish national home

the establishment of the Jewish national home

in the establishment of the Jewish national home


And yet somehow you are going to claim that those words don't mean what they clearly mean, and claim that they instead clearly mean "Arab national home" and just oopsied the wording somehow.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It is a collective right, not an individual right.

Which authority defined that Jews have such a right?

 

[Shusha]

Which authority defined that Jews have such a right?

Generally, it was an emerging concept in customary international law. Specifically, the Mandate for Palestine and the League of Nations Charter.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So pedantic.

the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country

as will secure the Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations establishment of the Jewish national home

the establishment of the Jewish national home

in the establishment of the Jewish national home


And yet somehow you are going to claim that those words don't mean what they clearly mean, and claim that they instead clearly mean "Arab national home" and just oopsied the wording somehow.

This is hardly pedantry madam. You said "The Mandate allocated territory to the Jewish people (Israel) and to the Arab people (Jordan)" it doesn't.

The word "Jordan" appears but ONCE and that is:

Article 25​

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

Furthermore the term "Arab" does not appear in the document nor does the term "Israel". Though the term "Palestinian" does appear:

Article 7​

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

Where is this "allocation" of "territory" to Jews? It does say that Jews will be enabled by laws, to acquire Palestinian citizenship nothing else. That is Jews be allowed to LIVE there and make their HOME their and be granted equal rights but not do all of the hideous things they have which includes partitioning Palestine, creating a state and setting up a Jew supremacist government.

What you have done is paraphrase (and I'm being kind here) and in so doing have twisted and warped and manipulated the document to conform to an insidious and deceitful Zionist interpretation.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Generally, it was an emerging concept in customary international law. Specifically, the Mandate for Palestine and the League of Nations Charter.

The mandate text does not contain "return" or declare "rights" to such nor does the covenant of the league of nations...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The German military said it was.

Well, I'm glad we were able to finally clear up your confusion (expose your lie) about Jewish fighters in the Warsaw ghetto.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The conflict (civil war) began right after the UN passed the partition plan resolution, the Arabs said they would resist an imposed colonial state on Arab land and that's what they did once the partition plan was passed.

The war was provoked, stoked by the West and the US was a party to that as well with it's recognition of the "State of Israel".

Here's what Truman said about the Zionists and their incessant complaining and lobbying to get their own way with the partition resolution - just as they do to this day.



Source: Wikipedia

Had Truman done the right thing there'd be peace in the Middle East today, but he allowed his authority to be manipulated by the Zionist terrorists.

The conflict (civil war) began right after the UN passed the partition plan resolution, the Arabs said they would resist an imposed colonial state on Arab land

That was Ottoman land. And now it's Israeli land.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Well, I'm glad we were able to finally clear up your confusion (expose your lie) about Jewish fighters in the Warsaw ghetto.

They executed other Jews, setup a "prison" so they could take and hold hostages. Insurgents ambushed Germans with petrol bombs and hand grenades, the set fire to German vehicles and so on and they even refused to surrender forcing the Germans to perform a building by building burndown in order to get the terrorists to comply but they did not.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The conflict (civil war) began right after the UN passed the partition plan resolution, the Arabs said they would resist an imposed colonial state on Arab land

That was Ottoman land.

It was British mandated Palestine.

And now it's Israeli land.

What is? the White House?

 

[horselightning]

The conflict (civil war) began right after the UN passed the partition plan resolution, the Arabs said they would resist an imposed colonial state on Arab land

That was Ottoman land. And now it's Israeli land.

yep it started out cannonite land

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Which authority defined that Jews have such a right?

The authority gained by winning two world wars against a Muslim Caliphate and various, genocidal maniacs.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

This is laughable, typical of Zionist entitlement and arrogance:

We are all victims … we are competing with each other who is the bigger victim,” he told Al Jazeera.

Excuse me while I puke...

 

[Shusha]

Where is this "allocation" of "territory" to Jews? It does say that Jews will be enabled by laws, to acquire Palestinian citizenship nothing else.

Nothing else? You can't seriously be arguing that it doesn't say, "establishment of the Jewish national home", given how many times it repeats this phrase.

That is Jews be allowed to LIVE there and make their HOME their and be granted equal rights

AND to develop an independent nation in Palestine that is "able to stand alone". The Preamble references Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, quoted in part below:

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. (emphasis mine)

and directly connects Article 22 to the Jewish people for the establishment their national home.

The Mandate document also refers to (and here I am working from memory, so paraphrasing, not an act of evil or malice, just expediency):

• self-governing
• administration
• close settlement on the land
• immigration
• control of resources (territory)

all within the context of the Jewish people, and, as noted above, Article 22.

As you correctly point out, no other peoples are mentioned in the context of any of these things. No other peoples are identified, other than as the people residing there who are of different ethnic and religious groups.

The argument, therefore, that the Jewish people were not the recipients of the right to self-determination and sovereignty in that territory is patently ridiculous.

but not do all of the hideous things they have which includes partitioning Palestine,

The Mandate for Palestine territory (now Israel) has never been partitioned, and certainly not by the Jewish people.

creating a state

Creating a state is hideous? Shush. Don't tell the Palestinians and the West who are demanding that very thing.

What you have done is paraphrase (and I'm being kind here)

Incorrect. Everything in italics is a direct quote (copy/paste) from the primary source document.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They executed other Jews, setup a "prison" so they could take and hold hostages. Insurgents ambushed Germans with petrol bombs and hand grenades, the set fire to German vehicles and so on and they even refused to surrender forcing the Germans to perform a building by building burndown in order to get the terrorists to comply but they did not.

Right. You have no acts of terrorism that they committed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It was British mandated Palestine.

It was British mandated Palestine.

Right, formerly Ottoman land. Now Israeli land.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Nothing else? You can't seriously be arguing that it doesn't say, "establishment of the Jewish national home", given how many times it repeats this phrase.

AND to develop an independent nation in Palestine that is "able to stand alone". The Preamble references Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, quoted in part below:

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. (emphasis mine)

and directly connects Article 22 to the Jewish people for the establishment their national home.

The Mandate document also refers to (and here I am working from memory, so paraphrasing, not an act of evil or malice, just expediency):

• self-governing
• administration
• close settlement on the land
• immigration
• control of resources (territory)

all within the context of the Jewish people, and, as noted above, Article 22.

As you correctly point out, no other peoples are mentioned in the context of any of these things. No other peoples are identified, other than as the people residing there who are of different ethnic and religious groups.

The argument, therefore, that the Jewish people were not the recipients of the right to self-determination and sovereignty in that territory is patently ridiculous.

The Mandate for Palestine territory (now Israel) has never been partitioned, and certainly not by the Jewish people.

Creating a state is hideous? Shush. Don't tell the Palestinians and the West who are demanding that very thing.

Incorrect. Everything in italics is a direct quote (copy/paste) from the primary source document.

1. I never contested that the text refers to "Jewish national home" and this is the first time you even mentioned this phrase.

2. The LNC (league of nations covenant) does not identify any states only "their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized" but also continues "subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone". Yet the "mandatory" for Palestine does not identify a Jewish state, it refers only to Palestine and a "Jewish home" within that.

You say

The argument, therefore, that the Jewish people were not the recipients of the right to self-determination and sovereignty in that territory is patently ridiculous.

Yet again, the document says nothing about "sovereignty" but does refer to "acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews" why would that be mentioned if it anticipates (as you claim) an independent Jewish state?

You say

Creating a state is hideous? Shush. Don't tell the Palestinians and the West who are demanding that very thing.

Creating another state is hideous because the mandate makes no mention of it and we need only look to see what has come of the idea.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It was British mandated Palestine.

Right, formerly Ottoman land. Now Israeli land.

Even the Israelis can't agree on borders so this is - as usual - a meaningless assertion by you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Even the Israelis can't agree on borders so this is - as usual - a meaningless assertion by you.

Israel has borders. Fictional Palestine has none.