Had The RWers Taken Personal Responsibility For Bush II, They Might Have Won

[LibertyLemming]

Eloquent. Simple, much like yourself.

So for kicks, what did Bush lie about?

The same things Obama has lied about. no nation building for one.

Which nation did we build?

Not sure what you call wiping out the government in Iraq and Afghanistan and then having a new one put in?

 

[insein]

The same things Obama has lied about. no nation building for one.

Which nation did we build?

Not sure what you call wiping out the government in Iraq and Afghanistan and then having a new one put in?

A war?

 

[LibertyLemming]

Which nation did we build?

Not sure what you call wiping out the government in Iraq and Afghanistan and then having a new one put in?

A war?

It was a war to remove the old leaders and put in new ones aka build a new nation.

 

[insein]

Not sure what you call wiping out the government in Iraq and Afghanistan and then having a new one put in?

A war?

It was a war to remove the old leaders and put in new ones aka build a new nation.

Pretty sure that's what war is about most of the time. So I'm not sure they lied when they said we were going to war. Perhaps something more specific that's bugging you?

 

[LibertyLemming]

A war?

It was a war to remove the old leaders and put in new ones aka build a new nation.

Pretty sure that's what war is about most of the time. So I'm not sure they lied when they said we were going to war. Perhaps something more specific that's bugging you?

He said he would do no nation building then he went to war to build 2 nations. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?

 

[insein]

It was a war to remove the old leaders and put in new ones aka build a new nation.

Pretty sure that's what war is about most of the time. So I'm not sure they lied when they said we were going to war. Perhaps something more specific that's bugging you?

He said he would do no nation building then he went to war to build 2 nations. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?

The part where you focus on that phrase nation building. What do you think a war is? Would it have been better to go to war and then just say "Hey we killed your leaders, figure it out." Stop being purposely naive.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Pretty sure that's what war is about most of the time. So I'm not sure they lied when they said we were going to war. Perhaps something more specific that's bugging you?

He said he would do no nation building then he went to war to build 2 nations. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?

The part where you focus on that phrase nation building. What do you think a war is? Would it have been better to go to war and then just say "Hey we killed your leaders, figure it out." Stop being purposely naive.

Okay so like, show me how we threw out the leaders of Japan when we went to war with them and started a new nation? Show me how after the Revolutionary war we went over the England and threw out the king and installed a new government. In fact, I would say it happens more often in wars that are not approved by congress than in ones that are approved.

Just answer me this: If I said I won't build any new nations, and then try to build 2, would you call that a lie?

 

[insein]

He said he would do no nation building then he went to war to build 2 nations. What part of this is so hard for you to understand?

The part where you focus on that phrase nation building. What do you think a war is? Would it have been better to go to war and then just say "Hey we killed your leaders, figure it out." Stop being purposely naive.

Okay so like, show me how we threw out the leaders of Japan when we went to war with them and started a new nation? Show me how after the Revolutionary war we went over the England and threw out the king and installed a new government. In fact, I would say it happens more often in wars that are not approved by congress than in ones that are approved.

Just answer me this: If I said I won't build any new nations, and then try to build 2, would you call that a lie?

I must've learned my WW2 history wrong then. Japan and Germany were not rebuilt? We don't still have US bases there to this day? Revolutionary war is a very poor example on multiple points for your argument. One we fought for independance for our own land rather than trying to conquer England. Which ironically resulted in the building of a new nation. Go figure.

As for your simplified scenario, you completely remove whatever context the original quote had. He said that in 2000 during the debates. He was stating that the US was over extending their troops for "Nation buidling" missions like Rowanda and that he would reign that back in. Obviously a little something happened on 9/11/01 that made him rethink his stance. So no he didn't lie. At the time, he didn't want to extend the troops on those types of "peace keeping missions" to "rebuild nations." Then we were attacked. We declared war on our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan and disposed of their government leaders. To not help rebuild them would be the height of irresponsibility.

 

[Too Tall]

Thank you, and considering we're coming out of 8 effing years of assault and destruction by the hands of the Bush Regime and these RWers ALL sat silent, you can imagine why I'm pretty focused on them. I'd like to see THEM hold some accountability for their nonsense first.

You can understand that...right?

How did Bush "assault" or "destroy" anything?

Seriously? He went to war with a country that presented ZERO national security threat to the USA. He used a tragedy like 9/11 to pass the Patriot Act and absolutely shit on freedom and due process. He locked human beings, in cages, without due process. He continued the war on drugs which also locks people in cages for victimless crimes. He assaulted my personal property by taxing my labor to keep failed companies afloat. I could go on for HOURS.

He went to war with a country that presented ZERO national security threat to the USA.

I disagree.

Prior to the war, the governments of the United States and the United Kingdom claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed a threat to their security and that of their coalition/regional allies. In 2002, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1441 which called for Iraq to completely cooperate with UN weapon inspectors to verify that Iraq was not in possession of WMD and cruise missiles. Prior to the attack, the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) found no evidence of WMD, but could not yet verify the accuracy of Iraq's declarations regarding what weapons it possessed, as their work was still unfinished. The leader of the inspectors Hans Blix estimated the time remaining for disarmament being verified through inspections to be "months".

After investigation following the invasion, the U.S.‑led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion, but that they intended to resume production if the Iraq sanctions were lifted.

He used a tragedy like 9/11 to pass the Patriot Act and absolutely shit on freedom and due process.

Presidents do not pass anything, they merely sign into law that which the Congress passes.

He locked human beings, in cages, without due process.

Perhaps, but Obama keeps them in those same cages and also kills human beings with his drones without due process.

He continued the war on drugs which also locks people in cages for victimless crimes.

So does Obama, since it is called enforcing the existing drug laws.

He assaulted my personal property by taxing my labor to keep failed companies afloat.

Below is a list of energy companies backed by President Barack Obama and funded by the American people that have failed. President Obama has wasted tax payer money on these companies and he wants you to re-elect him so he can give you more of the same.

Being the ideologue that he is, he WONT back down from funding more fake (meaning they have never proven themselves profitable or actually have made a product that works)

.Solar Trust of America: FAIL - Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012 – On April 2, 2012

Bright Source: FAIL - Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Lost Billions of dollars but Getting More Money To Keep Trying. Can you say, “This isnt working?”

Solyndra: FAIL - Obama gave Solyndra $500,000,000 in taxpayer money and Solyndra shut its doors and laid off 1100 workers in August 2011 After Billions in Losses due to failure to make a solar product that works!

LSP Energy: FAIL - LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012

Energy Conversion Devices: FAIL – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy



Abound Solar: FAIL - Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from Barack Obama announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy

SunPower: FAIL – SunPower stopped producing solar cells last year at near bankruptcy restructured only with help of, get this, oil giant TOTAL who owns 60% stake. Irony! Still

Beacon Power: FAIL – Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy Oct 2011 just a year after Obama approved $43 million loan Government loan guarantee

Ecotality: FAIL - ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees from Obama

A123 Solar: FAIL-A123 received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to President Obama’sDepartment of Energy loan guarantees and after Solyndra bankruptcy is getting another $500M from Obama and it has lost $400M

UniSolar: FAIL - Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20 this year laid off hundreds got more Obama money still failing but still in business

Azure Dynamics: FAIL - Azure Dynamics files for bankruptcy in June ter millions in Obama “Stimulus”

Evergreen Solar: FAIL - Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money from Obama filed bankruptcy

Ener1: FAIL received more than $100 million in government funding from the Obama administration filed for bankruptcy January 2012

 

[LibertyLemming]

How did Bush "assault" or "destroy" anything?

Seriously? He went to war with a country that presented ZERO national security threat to the USA. He used a tragedy like 9/11 to pass the Patriot Act and absolutely shit on freedom and due process. He locked human beings, in cages, without due process. He continued the war on drugs which also locks people in cages for victimless crimes. He assaulted my personal property by taxing my labor to keep failed companies afloat. I could go on for HOURS.

I disagree.

Feel free to tell me how Iraq was going to hurt citizens in the USA with those weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist



Presidents do not pass anything, they merely sign into law that which the Congress passes.

Except that when they sign a bill into law it is passed and not a moment before that can a bill become a law. The President is literally the person who passes or doesn't pass a bill.

Perhaps, but Obama keeps them in those same cages and also kills human beings with his drones without due process.

He continued the war on drugs which also locks people in cages for victimless crimes.

So does Obama, since it is called enforcing the existing drug laws.

He assaulted my personal property by taxing my labor to keep failed companies afloat.

Below is a list of energy companies backed by President Barack Obama and funded by the American people that have failed. President Obama has wasted tax payer money on these companies and he wants you to re-elect him so he can give you more of the same.

Being the ideologue that he is, he WONT back down from funding more fake (meaning they have never proven themselves profitable or actually have made a product that works)

.Solar Trust of America: FAIL - Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012 – On April 2, 2012

Bright Source: FAIL - Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Lost Billions of dollars but Getting More Money To Keep Trying. Can you say, “This isnt working?”

Solyndra: FAIL - Obama gave Solyndra $500,000,000 in taxpayer money and Solyndra shut its doors and laid off 1100 workers in August 2011 After Billions in Losses due to failure to make a solar product that works!

LSP Energy: FAIL - LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012

Energy Conversion Devices: FAIL – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy



Abound Solar: FAIL - Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from Barack Obama announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy

SunPower: FAIL – SunPower stopped producing solar cells last year at near bankruptcy restructured only with help of, get this, oil giant TOTAL who owns 60% stake. Irony! Still

Beacon Power: FAIL – Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy Oct 2011 just a year after Obama approved $43 million loan Government loan guarantee

Ecotality: FAIL - ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees from Obama

A123 Solar: FAIL-A123 received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to President Obama’sDepartment of Energy loan guarantees and after Solyndra bankruptcy is getting another $500M from Obama and it has lost $400M

UniSolar: FAIL - Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20 this year laid off hundreds got more Obama money still failing but still in business

Azure Dynamics: FAIL - Azure Dynamics files for bankruptcy in June ter millions in Obama “Stimulus”

Evergreen Solar: FAIL - Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money from Obama filed bankruptcy

Ener1: FAIL received more than $100 million in government funding from the Obama administration filed for bankruptcy January 2012

As for the rest of your comments. Justifying tyrannical actions by Bush by saying Obama does them too is not valid. Mao wasn't all like "it's cool that 70 million died bro Hitler did it first". That is not a valid argument.

I think Obama is TERRIBLE. I think GWB was TERRIBLE. My point was that the two are far more similar than they are different.

 

[Too Tall]

Feel free to tell me how Iraq was going to hurt citizens in the USA with those weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist

After investigation following the invasion, the U.S. led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion, but that they intended to resume production if the Iraq sanctions were lifted.

Except that when they sign a bill into law it is passed and not a moment before that can a bill become a law. The President is literally the person who passes or doesn't pass a bill.

The Congress passes the bill, the President signs it into law. Prove me wrong.

As for the rest of your comments. Justifying tyrannical actions by Bush by saying Obama does them too is not valid. Mao wasn't all like "it's cool that 70 million died bro Hitler did it first". That is not a valid argument.

How about this one.

He continued the war on drugs which also locks people in cages for victimless crimes.

So does Obama, since it is called enforcing the existing drug laws.

You were whining about Bush enforcing the law that he takes an oath to do when he became President. Obama took the same oath and also enforced the drug laws. What kind of logic is it to call that tyrannical?

I think Obama is TERRIBLE. I think GWB was TERRIBLE. My point was that the two are far more similar than they are different.

I disagree.