CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[ChrisL]

I think you libs need to decide, is there or isn't there a "bad guy" around every corner because the way you talk, you would think just about every American is a "bad guy."

Let me know when you want to talk about the argument I made rather than the one you wish I had made.

Here's the thing. I think that if he hadn't gotten access to a gun, Nik Cruz might have grown out of whatever teenage angst he was going through and become a productive member of society. I find it amusing that most of the guys I grew up with who got into all sorts of trouble are the biggest Law and Order types today.

So is gun violence so prevalent that we are all unsafe and should therefore give up our guns? Or is it that we are so safe that we are just paranoid that we feel we may need to have a gun some day? Hmm. Yet another liberal dilemma.

It's not a dilema at all. The rest of the world has figured this out.

Civilians don't need guns, and when they don't have easy access to them, you have a lot less gun violence.

Most of the 11,000 gun homicides we have every year are not crazy people. They are just regular folks who had one really bad day. (Although the person they shot was arguably having a much worse day.)

We can't outlaw bad days... but we can outlaw guns. The rest of the world has done this.

Heck, we could even have a system like Germany, where guns are allowed, but strictly regulated. They only have 250 gun homicides a year out of a population of 80 million.

Yes, because all teens go through the "mass shooter" phase. Holy shit.

You are more than welcome to go live in any other part of the world where you can feel safer from teens with evil guns, I'm sure. Governments and police states are what you want but that isn't what this country is about. WE are the government. We are in control. That is one reason why we have a 2nd amendment right. The government isn't supposed to be more powerful in weaponry than the citizens. The founders had experience with governments wielding superior weaponry and the results of such situations.

Guns were invented. The technology exists. Bad guys (whether they be government bad guys or your average street bad guy or a psychotic bad guy) will always be able to get a firearm. That is the reality of the situation. Guns will not disappear.

 

[BlackSand]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

There is a reason you are not King ... And it isn't red tape.

The issue those who support guns rights have, is not with whether or not crazy people should be allowed to buy firearms.
The issue is whether or not we are going to grant the government (king) the power to randomly decide who does or doesn't fit their ever changing definitions and requirements.

If you choose to ignore the systemic erosion of our rights ... It would serve you well to fortify the castle, your majesty.
We have no intent to grant you any more power ... You have abused the power we have allowed you in the past.

.

 

[petro]

Here's the thing. I think that if he hadn't gotten access to a gun, Nik Cruz might have grown out of whatever teenage angst he was going through and become a productive member of society.

This goes down as the dumbest statement you ever posted.

 

[JoeB131]

You probably really believe that the gun is trying to fool you. Lol. So, you are saying we should live in fear for our lives because of criminals and murderers getting these weapons, is that right?

No, I was being sarcastic... but never mind.

Okay- The only difference between an AR-15 and the M16 I carried in the military is that the selector switch doesn't allow automatic fire.

They still both have a maximum effective range of 420 meters.

They both still fire the same .556mm round that can do devastating damage to someone.

Neither should be in the hands of a guy like Nikolas Cruz.

 

[2aguy]

You probably really believe that the gun is trying to fool you. Lol. So, you are saying we should live in fear for our lives because of criminals and murderers getting these weapons, is that right?

No, I was being sarcastic... but never mind.

Okay- The only difference between an AR-15 and the M16 I carried in the military is that the selector switch doesn't allow automatic fire.

They still both have a maximum effective range of 420 meters.

They both still fire the same .556mm round that can do devastating damage to someone.

Neither should be in the hands of a guy like Nikolas Cruz.

There are over 8 million AR-15 rifles in private hands.....and lawn mowers kill more people each year than mass shooters do.....so rifles are not the problem...not even close...you don't care about dead people...you hate guns....and you hate gun owners.....

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, because all teens go through the "mass shooter" phase. Holy shit.

Not what I said, but since you can't argue what I said, never mind.

You are more than welcome to go live in any other part of the world where you can feel safer from teens with evil guns, I'm sure.

Or we can just take this country back from the nuts who are less than 20% of the population.

Governments and police states are what you want but that isn't what this country is about. WE are the government. We are in control. That is one reason why we have a 2nd amendment right.

I hate to shatter your delusion, but our government is bought and paid for by big corporations, and has been for a very long time. While NORMALLY, I have a huge problem with this, in this case, big corporations are deciding that the gun fetish is costing them way too much money, and their kids have to go to school with guys like Nick Cruz, too.

So when you see one corporation after another turning on the NRA and the gun industry, that's when you know you are on the losing side of history .

That is one reason why we have a 2nd amendment right. The government isn't supposed to be more powerful in weaponry than the citizens. The founders had experience with governments wielding superior weaponry and the results of such situations.

The Founders were were a bunch of slave-owners who didn't want to pay their taxes. Please stop treating them like they were saints who defecated marble.

The government has tanks. And warships. And machine guns. And bombers. And Attack Helicopters. And militarized police forces. heck, 40% of gun sales are to government agencies! So the idea that you needs you some guns to takes on the gummit is kind of silly. The government already has you outgunned.

One could even say these armies and police forces are "Well-regulated".

Guns were invented. The technology exists. Bad guys (whether they be government bad guys or your average street bad guy or a psychotic bad guy) will always be able to get a firearm. That is the reality of the situation. Guns will not disappear.

Except that Australia, the UK, Japan, Germany, France, Italy, etc., etc., etc. have already solved this problem pretty effectively.

 

[BlackSand]

...

WE are the government. We are in control. That is one reason why we have a 2nd amendment right. The government isn't supposed to be more powerful in weaponry than the citizens. The founders had experience with governments wielding superior weaponry and the results of such situations.

...

Some will argue that it is irrational to believe that civilians still have the ability to defend the free state from the government.
While at the same time ... They fail to understand their desire to make it that way ... Is the primary driving factor behind our refusal to humor any further measures.

I would have more respect for them if they simply said ... "We are going to kill you, so you might as well just give up".

.

 

[mdk]

 

[SeaGal]

You do it the same way it got there: Through the culture, through popular demand, through raising expectations. By being patient and focused and consistent.

I've said this, multiple times.

Patient, focused and consistent goes to work every day to support those who are not.

Expectations are 'conditional' and 'biased' against the 'under-privileged'...or so we're told.

We are in the middle of a culture war - and much of it is supported by the courts against popular opinion. We have social justice warriors who aren't really about 'blind justice', yet some of their agenda is just. On the other hand there are those who see stability and order as guides to social change. Our society is more mobile, more informed (at least we should be), less structured than ever before. It's a confused time...confused on science, confused on life, confused on relationships and roles, confused on the law to the point of ignoring some of them.

My biggest concern is the new-to-me demonization of whole segments of the population by well paid elected officials ' hired' to represent us all. When disagree speech becomes an excuse for violence against the speaker, or a trampling of their right to speak, or silencing debate - all with the approval of our leaders - it can only lead to a serious breakdown of our cultural order.

The above, in my opinion - infringement on free speech, ridicule of opposing views, selective enforcement of the law, demonization of dissenters - are more damaging to culture than video games etal, which are symptomatic, not causative.

 

[william the wie]

this thread is simply a promotion of rampant crimes by the left with absolutely no accountability for their promotion of ineffective and divisive degradation of everyone who points out the emperor has no clothes. In other words promotion of evil for evil's sake.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The only side giving up little bits of freedom are the pro 2nd Amendment side....every time.....name the last time the anti gun extremists gave up anything.....

We gave up the Assault weapons ban in 2004, and mass shootings doubled.

From 2009 to 2011 Democrats had the chance to pass another bill and failed to do so when they had the power.

In the end the Second Amendment is a wedge issue like Abortion and Immigration and political hacks will beat the drum for changes but when given the opportunity they forget those wedge issues while focusing on pet projects.

Each State regulates Firearms from sales to ownership and the requirements for each citizen of that state and for me that is far enough!

Federal Laws apply already and let remember the reality is LEO failed more times than not even when they knew of the possible danger months in advance like the School Shooting and Pulse Nightclub.

So how will more laws get LEO to do their job that they fail to do at this moment?

 

[JoeB131]

From 2009 to 2011 Democrats had the chance to pass another bill and failed to do so when they had the power.

They were a little too busy saving the economy.

But, yeah, I agree, the democrats didn't take advantage of having all the levers and were too defential to the GOP.

 

[JoeB131]

In the end the Second Amendment is a wedge issue like Abortion and Immigration and political hacks will beat the drum for changes but when given the opportunity they forget those wedge issues while focusing on pet projects.

Each State regulates Firearms from sales to ownership and the requirements for each citizen of that state and for me that is far enough!

I disagree. That someone like Nick Cruz can get an AR-15 and shoot up a school with it shows they aren't regulated enough.

The real problem. Most AMericans have no idea how lax the gun laws are.

Federal Laws apply already and let remember the reality is LEO failed more times than not even when they knew of the possible danger months in advance like the School Shooting and Pulse Nightclub.

Um, last time I checked, we don't lock people up for what they MIGHT do.

 

[BlackSand]

...

Um, last time I checked, we don't lock people up for what they MIGHT do.

You just attempt to erode the rights and liberties of the People who didn't do anything wrong ... Got it ...

To make the case that millions of law abiding people throughout the country should be punished as the results of Nikolas Cruz's actions ...
Goes further towards your desire to redefine the boundaries of the prison you would like to establish.


.

 

[JoeB131]

You just attempt to erode the rights and liberties of the People who didn't do anything wrong ... Got it ...

Well, when you stop killing thousands of people every year, with no sense of responsibility, I'd be all for restoring your gun "privileges".

To make the case that millions of law abiding people throughout the country should be punished as the results of Nikolas Cruz's actions ...
Goes further towards your desire to redefine the boundaries of the prison you would like to establish.

Again, most of the world, civilians can't own guns, and their fine.

78% of the people in this country don't own guns... and they're fine.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The AR-15 and all other semi automatic guns are not military weapons......but thanks for lying.

Funny, it looks JUST like the M16A1 I used to carry when I was in the army.

But it's probably just trying to fool us.

Wow it looks like one.

If you actually were in the military you would know something about weapons

 

[EGR one]

The problem is the left is never satisfied, give and inch and they demand another mile. History proves it.

Laws can be changed back. Fixing a culture is a much larger task. We either get on this, or no laws really matter.
.

We cannot "fix" a culture. Especially, we cannot fix a culture where the inmates have taken over the asylum. I am not even sure that it is not too late to reverse the trend. We have allowed three generations of our children to be indoctrinated in our public schools, and now they are a large share of the problem. Many of them no longer believe in American exceptional-ism, rugged individualism, or the American dream. They are now "citizens of the world".

I fear that all we can do now is become prepared to pick up the pieces after the fall of this great nation.

 

[EGR one]

The problem is the left is never satisfied, give and inch and they demand another mile. History proves it.

Laws can be changed back. Fixing a culture is a much larger task. We either get on this, or no laws really matter.
.

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

Raising the purchase age limit to 21 (or higher?) would have prevented Cruz from buying guns. Teenagers are still too immature to handle weapons on their own.

Nonsense! Teenagers have been handling guns for many decades, and the vast majority never commit a crime with one. The inability of teenagers to buy guns legally has not prevented thousands of teenage gang bangers from getting all the guns they desire. Laws only limit law abiding people.

 

[EGR one]

I think you libs need to decide, is there or isn't there a "bad guy" around every corner because the way you talk, you would think just about every American is a "bad guy."

Let me know when you want to talk about the argument I made rather than the one you wish I had made.

Here's the thing. I think that if he hadn't gotten access to a gun, Nik Cruz might have grown out of whatever teenage angst he was going through and become a productive member of society. I find it amusing that most of the guys I grew up with who got into all sorts of trouble are the biggest Law and Order types today.

So is gun violence so prevalent that we are all unsafe and should therefore give up our guns? Or is it that we are so safe that we are just paranoid that we feel we may need to have a gun some day? Hmm. Yet another liberal dilemma.

It's not a dilema at all. The rest of the world has figured this out.

Civilians don't need guns, and when they don't have easy access to them, you have a lot less gun violence.

Most of the 11,000 gun homicides we have every year are not crazy people. They are just regular folks who had one really bad day. (Although the person they shot was arguably having a much worse day.)

We can't outlaw bad days... but we can outlaw guns. The rest of the world has done this.

Heck, we could even have a system like Germany, where guns are allowed, but strictly regulated. They only have 250 gun homicides a year out of a population of 80 million.

If the rest of the world is so superior in the way they live life, why aren't all you lefties moving to the rest of the world? Why are so many people from the rest of the world trying so hard to get to America?

 

[JoeB131]

Wow it looks like one.

If you actually were in the military you would know something about weapons

Same max effective range
Same fire rate on semi-setting
Same .556 MM Round.

Same tendency to jam if you don't keep it cleaned properly.