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Gun registration...yes, the democrats want it, yes, they want to use it to ban and confiscate guns....

bigrebnc1775

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True, but that's not what I'm talking about.
You do not have the right to murder soemone with a gun <<< example of a limit on the right to keep and bear arrms.
There is no such right to murder.
 

bigrebnc1775

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Correct. And so the 2nd does not protect the use of a firearm to murder someone.
That is correct it's not a God given right to murder. And it never has been suggested that it was.but the government cannot infringe on the second amendment without due process and only against those who abused the right namely by murdering someone
 

M14 Shooter

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That is correct it's not a God given right to murder. And it never has been suggested that it was.but the government cannot infringe on the second amendment without due process and only against those who abused the right namely by murdering someone
The point is there are limits on what you can do with your firearm and still be protected by the 2nd.
 

bigrebnc1775

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The point is there are limits on what you can do with your firearm and still be protected by the 2nd.
The only limit comes through due process. And it's only limited to individuals who abused that right.
 

alang1216

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I just gave you the definition of infringed. You're being illogical if you think shall not be infringed means you can infringe on something.
So logically you should be able to offer a right from the Constitution that has no restrictions on it. I'll wait...
 

bigrebnc1775

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So logically you should be able to offer a right from the Constitution that has no restrictions on it. I'll wait...
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 

alang1216

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The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. [It is] not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA V. HELLER, 2008

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Try and practice animal or human sacrifice and see what happens.

or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;
slander/libel

or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
You still can't storm and occupy the Capitol.
 

alang1216

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You can assemble on private property with no permits.

Hosting a concert at home: The ups and downs and permits needed


The use of public property for any reason may require a permit due to expected crowd sizes and impacts on local traffic and businesses etc but there are no permits required if you and some of your family and friends want to "assemble" at a public park for a picnic.
How many friends? Do you intend to use a pavilion or other park facility?

Can you tell me what other rights enumerated in the Constitution require people to pay for and attend a class, to apply and pay a fee for a permit that has to be renewed annually as people have to do in many states for their guaranteed right to keep and bear firearms?

If your state required you to pay for and attend a class and pay a fee for a permit BEFORE you could exercise your rights to free speech or practice a religion would you be OK with that?

If your state required you to pay for and attend classes and pay fees for a permits BEFORE you could claim protection of your rights under the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments would you be OK with that?

How about a being required to pay for and attend a class and pay for a permit before every single election? You'd be OK with that too right?
Which of those rights can have an impact on others if exercised improperly?
 

bigrebnc1775

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“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. [It is] not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA V. HELLER, 2008


Try and practice animal or human sacrifice and see what happens.


slander/libel


You still can't storm and occupy the Capitol.
"Congress shall make no law."
You dumbass took out of context what Scalia said. He was talking about those who through due process lost their rights.
 

Blues Man

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Hosting a concert at home: The ups and downs and permits needed



How many friends? Do you intend to use a pavilion or other park facility?


Which of those rights can have an impact on others if exercised improperly?
A concert is subject to town noise ordinances

Pavilions at most state parks usually have to be reserved if they are not reserved then it is first come first served

And no one I know has ever needed a permit to use the rest rooms at a public park.

But you keep trying

And the only way to "improperly " exercise a right is if you violate the law or infringe on the rights of others so obviously this discussion is not about impropriety.

But tell me since you think people should have to pay for classes and permits simply to exercise one particular right why don't you want the same requirements for all rights?

Don;t you want other people to have to pay for and take classes about every religion then pay for a permit to practice a religion?

Don't you want people to have to pay for classes and permits to vote?

If it is acceptable to charge people to exercise one right then surely it is acceptable to charge a person to exercise any right.
 
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alang1216

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"Congress shall make no law."
You dumbass took out of context what Scalia said. He was talking about those who through due process lost their rights.
So which is it? No law or due process?
 

bigrebnc1775

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So which is it? No law or due process?
Congress shall make no law creating a state run religion. Only restriction to the second amendment must done through due process, and only against those who abused their second amendment right. military firearms are protected by the second amendment.
 

alang1216

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You can assemble on private property with no permits.
Maybe none, maybe 10.
The use of public property for any reason may require a permit due to expected crowd sizes and impacts on local traffic and businesses etc but there are no permits required if you and some of your family and friends want to "assemble" at a public park for a picnic.

Can you tell me what other rights enumerated in the Constitution require people to pay for and attend a class, to apply and pay a fee for a permit that has to be renewed annually as people have to do in many states for their guaranteed right to keep and bear firearms?

If your state required you to pay for and attend a class and pay a fee for a permit BEFORE you could exercise your rights to free speech or practice a religion would you be OK with that?

If your state required you to pay for and attend classes and pay fees for a permits BEFORE you could claim protection of your rights under the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments would you be OK with that?

How about a being required to pay for and attend a class and pay for a permit before every single election? You'd be OK with that too right?

A concert is subject to town noise ordinances
So we agree that the right to assemble is not absolute?

And the only way to "improperly " exercise a right is if you violate the law
So we agree that laws can restrict the exercise of rights?

But tell me since you think people should have to pay for classes and permits simply to exercise one particular right why don't you want the same requirements for all rights?
The question is, should a right come with restrictions. I say can should and they do. What those restictions should be is another question entirely.

Don;t you want other people to have to pay for and take classes about every religion then pay for a permit to practice a religion?
If you intend to build a church you still need to follow local zoning and building codes. Regardless of which religion.

Don't you want people to have to pay for classes and permits to vote?
Pay? No. Attend classes? That might be a good idea.

If it is acceptable to charge people to exercise one right then surely it is acceptable to charge a person to exercise any right.
Are you talking about a small fee or an undo burden? Fees are fine by me.
 

Blues Man

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Maybe none, maybe 10.



So we agree that the right to assemble is not absolute?


So we agree that laws can restrict the exercise of rights?


The question is, should a right come with restrictions. I say can should and they do. What those restictions should be is another question entirely.


If you intend to build a church you still need to follow local zoning and building codes. Regardless of which religion.


Pay? No. Attend classes? That might be a good idea.


Are you talking about a small fee or an undo burden? Fees are fine by me.
The right to make noise is not absolute.

Why do you assume an assembly has to have loud music playing? If I want to invite 200 or 2000 people to a private event and I rent a banquet hall or other venue, I do not need permits. If I want to invite 50 people to my home for a cookout I do not need permits



You don't need a church to practice religion

And who pays for the classes?
 

alang1216

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Why do you assume an assembly has to have loud music playing? If I want to invite 200 or 2000 people to a private event and I rent a banquet hall or other venue, I do not need permits.
I guarantee the venue has permits.

If I want to invite 50 people to my home for a cookout I do not need permits
Probably true but, depending on where you live, if you want to invite 500 people you might.

And who pays for the classes?
He who takes the class of course. If you think a government program to subsidize the poor is warranted, so be it.
 

Blues Man

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I guarantee the venue has permits.


Probably true but, depending on where you live, if you want to invite 500 people you might.


He who takes the class of course. If you think a government program to subsidize the poor is warranted, so be it.
All public accommodation sites must have permits to be in business that has nothing to do with me needing a permit to rent the place for any assembly.

And requiring a person to pay for a class as a condition to meet before they can exercise their rights is unconstitutional.
 

M14 Shooter

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And requiring a person to pay for a class as a condition to meet before they can exercise their rights is unconstitutional.
You have to ask yourself:
If the right to keep and bear arms was not given to you by the state, what standing does the state have to issue, must less require, a permit for the basic exercise of same?
 

alang1216

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And requiring a person to pay for a class as a condition to meet before they can exercise their rights is unconstitutional.
Is that your Constitutional law judgement or has the SCOTUS ruled on it? Everything is constitutional until they say it isn't.
 

alang1216

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You have to ask yourself:
If the right to keep and bear arms was not given to you by the state, what standing does the state have to issue, must less require, a permit for the basic exercise of same?
The Federal Government grants Americans their rights in the constitution, a integral part of that government. Protection and enforcement of those rights are often delegated to the States and then delegated in turn to local governments.
 

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