Gun registration in California? They just signed a law giving gun owner information to outside parties..

[2aguy]

You think our prisons are nice places to go?

Yes, China is one of the few countries that still practices Capital Punishment, but not really as often as you make out. They maybe execute 1000 people a year.

If Capital Punishment were a deterrent, why does the US have a higher crime rate than all the countries that have abolished it? Why do the DP states have a higher murder rate than the non-DP states?

View attachment 550808

We have higher crime rates for 2 reasons....

1) 70% out of wedlock birthrate in black families.....which leads to the 7% of young black males committing murder and crime at over 50% of the total murder and crime rates..

2) the democrat party...judges, prosectors and politicians who keep releasing the most violent criminals over and over again...no matter how many times they catch them with illegal guns...even shooting people with those guns....

 

[2aguy]

Good guys with guns never stop mass shootings because mass shootings are usually over in minutes if not seconds.

For instance, in the Tuscon mass shooting where Gabby Gifford was maimed, a "good guy with a gun" rushed out... and almost shot one of the people who had subdued the shooter.



"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to a free state..." um, yeah, it's about militias.

It wasn't about gun ownership, because very few colonial Americans owned guns or could afford them or even had much use for them. (The weren't accurate for anything other than using in volleys, didn't have a high rate of fire.)

At 1789 Mass shooting would have been over after the first shot because they'd have mobbed the guy while he was reloading his powder.

The good guy with a gun, didn't shoot anyone....even the other good guy with a gun...you idiot......


The guy came out of a store, saw what was happening and drew his gun....he saw another guy with a gun, didn't know who he was...did he shoot him? No, he ordered him to put the gun on the ground.......because the actual shooter had already been dealt with..

So Tucson shows the exact opposite of what you say....the good guys with a gun held their fire, because they didn't have to shoot....and the cops didn't shoot them when they arrived...

You idiot.

 

[2aguy]

Again, go up to a Sandy Hook or Stoneman Parent and make the argument that Lanza or Cruz had a right to own a gun because the constitution said so... It would be amusing.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact. You have to apply a little common sense. Some people just plain old shouldn't have guns just because a Slave Rapist 200 years ago couldn't define a militia clearly.



No, I just point out that the assertation that every crazy person should be able to get a Gun because it's his God Given Right is kind of absurd. the one thing we find out after every mass shooting is EVERYONE KNEW this person was nuts, but he had no problem getting a gun anyway.



I just point out the obvious. There is really no good reason for an average citizen to have a gun, much less an assault rifle. The Army made sure I had weeks of training before the issued me a gun, and even then, it was under very controlled circumstance - hence- WELL REGULATED.

The idea you can give James Holmes that same gun and he can shoot up a theater because he thinks he's The Joker from the comic books is just... nuts.



Um, guy, I've been over this, but I'll go over this again.

The United States locks up 2 million of it's citizens. We have another 7 million on probation or parole. By comparison, China (A communist dictatorship with a billion people) only locks up 1.3 Million people and Russia locks up about a million. Most of the other G-7 countries (our economic/social peers) lock up less than 100K people.

They have no where near our crime rates. Why? Because they treat addiction as a medical issue, they have programs for poverty and mental illness and, oh, yeah, they don't let every crazy person who wants to get a gun have one.

If we are a crime-ridden society, it's because conservatives have gotten their way with gun proliferation, the War on Drugs and slashing poverty programs to give tax cuts to rich people. Not to mention a Prison-Industrial Complex that breeds career criminals.



I support gun control because I really don't think most people should own guns... Gun proliferation causes 43,000 deaths, 70,000 injuries, 400,000 crimes, and 213 BILLION in economic losses. We have to build our whole society around a very small slice of the population who have a gun fetish and a bizarre interpretation of the Militia Amendment.




Actually, you guys embarrass yourselves by going out there and saying, "Why of course, Adam Lanza should have been able to have a gun!!!"

Guns save lives.....they even save money........

600 million guns in private hands......over 19.4 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



American use those legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....



2019...



Gun murder...10,235



Gun accidents...486



Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Gun suicides... 23,491...





Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop brutal rapes, robberies, beatings, knifings, murders......according to the Centers for Disease Control, and 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice.



Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

 

[2aguy]

Those who support guns are enablers of over 10,000 murders and over 20,000 suicides per year.

Guns are used 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, beatings, stabbings, and murders...

That is what we support...

shitheads like you vote for the democrat party...the political party releasing violent criminals from jail and prison over and over again, no matter how violent they are, no matter how often they carry and use illegal guns...

That's on you.

 

[JoeB131]

What is it with you idiots......... killing criminals isn't the way to measure defensive gun use....crimes stopped by victims with guns is the way you count that.

Except there is no way to count that, just like there is no way to tell how many time domestic abusers terrorize their families with guns.

When it comes to Good Guys with a gun shooting the bad guys, it happens very, very rarely.

Normal people do not want to shoot anyone, even criminals...so when the criminal runs away or surrenders because the victim draws a gun on them means the gun saved them from that criminal...

You couldn't tell it from what you gun fetishists post. YOu all fanaticize every day about shooting people.

What is so hard for you to understand?

Probably the whole "Lack of credibility" thing. The numbers are laughable.

 

[2aguy]

Except there is no way to count that, just like there is no way to tell how many time domestic abusers terrorize their families with guns.

When it comes to Good Guys with a gun shooting the bad guys, it happens very, very rarely.



You couldn't tell it from what you gun fetishists post. YOu all fanaticize every day about shooting people.




Probably the whole "Lack of credibility" thing. The numbers are laughable.

You guys pull your information out of your ass.......we use actual research, facts, truth and reality.........


The Centers for Disease Control puts the number of defensive gun uses at 1.2 million a year....

The Department of Justice puts that number at 1.5 million times a year....

The 2020 Firearm survey puts the number at 1.67 million times a year........

 

[JoeB131]

Guns save lives.....they even save money........

Dude, don't spooge over the thread...

Guns cost us 280 BILLION in economic damages every year.

The Economic Cost of Gun Violence

In an average year, gun violence in America kills 45,000 people, wounds nearly twice as many, and costs our nation $557 billion.

everytownresearch.org

In an average year, gun violence in America kills nearly 40,000 people, injures more than twice as many, and costs our nation $280 billion. This staggering figure is higher than the entire US Department of Veterans Affairs’ annual budget. Without a doubt, the human cost of gun violence—the people who are taken from us and the survivors whose lives are forever altered—is the most devastating. But examining the serious economic consequences of gun violence is paramount to understanding just how extensive and expensive this crisis is. And during these times of unprecedented economic uncertainty and stretched-thin health care resources from the coronavirus pandemic, these vast funds could be directed elsewhere if many of these shooting tragedies were prevented from occurring in the first place.

This $280 billion problem represents the lifetime costs associated with gun violence, including three types of costs: immediate costs starting at the time of an incident; subsequent costs such as treatment, long-term physical and mental health care, forgone earnings, criminal justice costs; and cost estimates of quality-of-life lost over a victim’s lifespan.

 

[JoeB131]

You guys pull your information out of your ass.......we use actual research, facts, truth and reality.........


The Centers for Disease Control puts the number of defensive gun uses at 1.2 million a year....

Again, guy, only 200 DGU's by civilians where a homicide was ruled justified.

Period. Full stop. Anything else is just dick-wagging.

 

[2aguy]

Dude, don't spooge over the thread...

Guns cost us 280 BILLION in economic damages every year.

The Economic Cost of Gun Violence

In an average year, gun violence in America kills 45,000 people, wounds nearly twice as many, and costs our nation $557 billion.

everytownresearch.org

In an average year, gun violence in America kills nearly 40,000 people, injures more than twice as many, and costs our nation $280 billion. This staggering figure is higher than the entire US Department of Veterans Affairs’ annual budget. Without a doubt, the human cost of gun violence—the people who are taken from us and the survivors whose lives are forever altered—is the most devastating. But examining the serious economic consequences of gun violence is paramount to understanding just how extensive and expensive this crisis is. And during these times of unprecedented economic uncertainty and stretched-thin health care resources from the coronavirus pandemic, these vast funds could be directed elsewhere if many of these shooting tragedies were prevented from occurring in the first place.

This $280 billion problem represents the lifetime costs associated with gun violence, including three types of costs: immediate costs starting at the time of an incident; subsequent costs such as treatment, long-term physical and mental health care, forgone earnings, criminal justice costs; and cost estimates of quality-of-life lost over a victim’s lifespan.

I gave you the lives and money saved….not to forget the rapes, robberies, beatings, stabbings and murders stopped bu armed citizens

 

[2aguy]

Dude, don't spooge over the thread...

Guns cost us 280 BILLION in economic damages every year.

The Economic Cost of Gun Violence

In an average year, gun violence in America kills 45,000 people, wounds nearly twice as many, and costs our nation $557 billion.

everytownresearch.org

In an average year, gun violence in America kills nearly 40,000 people, injures more than twice as many, and costs our nation $280 billion. This staggering figure is higher than the entire US Department of Veterans Affairs’ annual budget. Without a doubt, the human cost of gun violence—the people who are taken from us and the survivors whose lives are forever altered—is the most devastating. But examining the serious economic consequences of gun violence is paramount to understanding just how extensive and expensive this crisis is. And during these times of unprecedented economic uncertainty and stretched-thin health care resources from the coronavirus pandemic, these vast funds could be directed elsewhere if many of these shooting tragedies were prevented from occurring in the first place.

This $280 billion problem represents the lifetime costs associated with gun violence, including three types of costs: immediate costs starting at the time of an incident; subsequent costs such as treatment, long-term physical and mental health care, forgone earnings, criminal justice costs; and cost estimates of quality-of-life lost over a victim’s lifespan.

176,000 lives saved and about 1 trillion dolars saved by armed citzens you moron

 

[Polishprince]

Again, guy, only 200 DGU's by civilians where a homicide was ruled justified.

Period. Full stop. Anything else is just dick-wagging.

Sunday was the anniversary of the battle of Tours , France in 732. Very violent event, many people killed right in the middle of the tremendous nation of France.

But what's really fascinating is that it all occurred BEFORE firearms were even invented.

Guns are merely a tool, for good or bad. Do you really think that its preferable to be flung off of tall buildings, garroted or crucified instead of getting plugged?

A lot of countries with restrictive gun laws of the most draconian type, also have sky high homicide rates. The murder rate in the Union of South Africa is 8 times as high as America's in spite of or because of their Draconian gun control.

 

[Polishprince]

Except there is no way to count that, just like there is no way to tell how many time domestic abusers terrorize their families with guns.

When it comes to Good Guys with a gun shooting the bad guys, it happens very, very rarely.



You couldn't tell it from what you gun fetishists post. YOu all fanaticize every day about shooting people.




Probably the whole "Lack of credibility" thing. The numbers are laughable.

Just because a case isn't proven doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If I was Jussie Smollett and was attacked in the middle of the night by black guys in Chicago, I would have whacked them without question.

But I sure wouldn't have been quick to tell the police about it and wait for adjudication.

Walking away from dead black guys lying in the street is the smart move if possible, in a city whose motto is "Black Lives Matter". A white guys defending himself on the streets of a major Liberal Heck Hole against black youths would be literally crucified and we all know that.

But it wouldn't change the fact that the shooting would be clean.

 

[Abatis]

Really, I thought it was because you were a high-functioning retard.

Sez the poster who only emotes, who constantly sends out spastic grunts as argument, never demonstrating any knowledge of the subject or competency in discussing it.

Case in point:

There are no rights.

The Classical Liberal / Enlightenment concept of "rights" is well developed, well explained and well represented in the philosophical, historical and legal foundation and execution of the USA's founding and Constitution.

To say "there are no rights" only demonstrates a child-like denial of things that you don't understand or simply don't like.

That you then develop positions on public policy from such infantile understanding is amusing; that you defend your authoritarian and discriminatory public policy positions so ardently should stand as a warning and a undeniable proof, of why the right to keep and bear arms is so vital to people who cherish liberty.

The Second Amendment is about militias

No, you are wrong on every level. You throw out these bald assertions of hard, legal truth and then refuse to show the hard, legal support for that position. Why should anyone think you know what you are talking about when you refuse to demonstrate any knowledge of the law you are making claims about?

Why should anyone respect your positions when you are either incapable, or just outright refuse to defend your position?

It is clear then that you have emoted yourself into your position rather than reasoned yourself there. Emotions and feelings can't be debated; I can't argue against what you feel but I can challenge why you feel it. You, in typical leftist / anti-gunner fashion, can not operate in logic and reason and facts; you are only capable of, gunz R bad, nobuddy shud have dem . . . .

You and the drek you post is just an example of a child trying to alter reality to protect their uneducated and unreasoned beliefs. While rubbing your nose in your mess is fun, I much rather engage in reasoned, supported debate so, while I will continue destroying your goofy utterances, I will no longer consider you a "debate" candidate, you just can not muster the intellectual back and forth.

There is no right for crazy people to own guns.

That you continue to throw out absurdities like this, that you need to so disingenuously frame an opponent's position, screams to the board that you have no ability to consider the issue from an adult's understanding.

 

[danielpalos]

This is just one reason not to give in to the insane demand to register guns...

California Governor Gavin Newsom, having survived his recall election, has taken the next step in his agenda on gun control. He signed California Assembly Bill 173 into law, amending the California Penal Code Section 11106 to include this new authorization to release personally identifiable information about every California gun owner to researchers.

California Reveals Gun Owner Identities to Gun Violence Researchers

redstate.com

California proves the dangers of complying with gun registration

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armedamericannews.org

Now.....these law abiding Americans can be targeted by blm/antifa thugs and the various other thug groups deployed by the democrat party...

We have a Second Amendment and State equivalents and should have no security problems in our free States. Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and regulate them well!

 

[Abatis]

Those who support guns are enablers of over 10,000 murders and over 20,000 suicides per year.

I have enjoyed the gun debate for nearly 30 years; started on USENET in 1992 in talk.politics.guns.

In all that time I don't think I have ever seen such a perfect, succinct example of a poster's words so magnificently manifesting / embodying their username.

Congratulations!

 

[Abatis]

We have higher crime rates for 2 reasons....

1) 70% out of wedlock birthrate in black families.....which leads to the 7% of young black males committing murder and crime at over 50% of the total murder and crime rates..

2) the democrat party...judges, prosectors and politicians who keep releasing the most violent criminals over and over again...no matter how many times they catch them with illegal guns...even shooting people with those guns....

QFT!

 

[2aguy]

Sez the poster who only emotes, who constantly sends out spastic grunts as argument, never demonstrating any knowledge of the subject or competency in discussing it.

Case in point:



The Classical Liberal / Enlightenment concept of "rights" is well developed, well explained and well represented in the philosophical, historical and legal foundation and execution of the USA's founding and Constitution.

To say "there are no rights" only demonstrates a child-like denial of things that you don't understand or simply don't like.

That you then develop positions on public policy from such infantile understanding is amusing; that you defend your authoritarian and discriminatory public policy positions so ardently should stand as a warning and a undeniable proof, of why the right to keep and bear arms is so vital to people who cherish liberty.



No, you are wrong on every level. You throw out these bald assertions of hard, legal truth and then refuse to show the hard, legal support for that position. Why should anyone think you know what you are talking about when you refuse to demonstrate any knowledge of the law you are making claims about?

Why should anyone respect your positions when you are either incapable, or just outright refuse to defend your position?

It is clear then that you have emoted yourself into your position rather than reasoned yourself there. Emotions and feelings can't be debated; I can't argue against what you feel but I can challenge why you feel it. You, in typical leftist / anti-gunner fashion, can not operate in logic and reason and facts; you are only capable of, gunz R bad, nobuddy shud have dem . . . .

You and the drek you post is just an example of a child trying to alter reality to protect their uneducated and unreasoned beliefs. While rubbing your nose in your mess is fun, I much rather engage in reasoned, supported debate so, while I will continue destroying your goofy utterances, I will no longer consider you a "debate" candidate, you just can not muster the intellectual back and forth.



That you continue to throw out absurdities like this, that you need to so disingenuously frame an opponent's position, screams to the board that you have no ability to consider the issue from an adult's understanding.

Thank you.......

 

[M14 Shooter]

Guns are used to commit criminal homicide and suicide much more often then justifiable homicide.

A fact with no meaning.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Those who support guns are enablers of over 10,000 murders and over 20,000 suicides per year.

^^^
This is a lie

 

[Polishprince]

Guns are used to commit criminal homicide and suicide much more often then justifiable homicide.

So?


The idea of owning and carrying a firearm isn't to shoot anyone.

In fact, ideally, you hope never to have to.

Is America's nuclear arsenal a waste, even though its been unused since 1945? Of course not- the threat of a thermonuclear attack helps to keep the miscreant nations at bay.

Similar to carrying a gun. If a criminal is looking for someone to rob, rape or murder, he's going to avoid those he thinks are armed. He's looking for easy pickings, not a gun fight.