Gun Ownership / Laws Discussion & Debate

[bigrebnc1775]

License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights. no deal

Exactly. Gun ownership is a right. Even when some say we have no rights. A privilege is driving. I have a God given right to defend myself from anyone who means me harm whether it be a crack head or the US govt.

We have a whole generation of Americans growing up and beileving that there are no rights just priviliges that big brother gives us.

You have a right to vote, but you need a voter registration card to prove you are legally eligible to vote...i.e. a citizen, a resident, not a convicted felon.

Proving who you are an American citizen or not is justified. Still again
License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights

 

[The T]

License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights. no deal

Exactly. Gun ownership is a right. Even when some say we have no rights. A privilege is driving. I have a God given right to defend myself from anyone who means me harm whether it be a crack head or the US govt.

We have a whole generation of Americans growing up and beileving that there are no rights just priviliges that big brother gives us.

You have a Constitutionally protected right to vote, but you need a voter registration card to prove you are legally eligible to vote...i.e. a citizen, a resident, not a convicted felon.

You do? Cite it?

 

[Missourian]

Exactly. Gun ownership is a right. Even when some say we have no rights. A privilege is driving. I have a God given right to defend myself from anyone who means me harm whether it be a crack head or the US govt.

We have a whole generation of Americans growing up and beileving that there are no rights just priviliges that big brother gives us.

You have a right to vote, but you need a voter registration card to prove you are legally eligible to vote...i.e. a citizen, a resident, not a convicted felon.

Proving who you are an American citizen or not is justified. Still again
License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights

But your not just proving you're a citizen, you are also proving you are not a convicted felon, and therefore ineligible to exercise you right to vote.

In the exact same way a verified firearm purchaser card would prove you are a citizen, not a convicted criminal or a domestic abuser, and not a threat to yourself or others.

It seems exactly the same to me.

Plus, it eliminates gun registration / verification on every purchase, and protects individual purchases and sales of firearms. as a bonus it allows individual sellers to verify the legal status of buyers.

Win/win/win.

So what's the downside?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You have a right to vote, but you need a voter registration card to prove you are legally eligible to vote...i.e. a citizen, a resident, not a convicted felon.

Proving who you are an American citizen or not is justified. Still again
License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights

But your not just proving you're a citizen, you are also proving you are not a convicted felon, and therefore ineligible to exercise you right to vote.

In the exact same way a verified firearm purchaser card would prove you are a citizen, not a convicted criminal or a domestic abuser, and not a threat to yourself or others.

It seems exactly the same to me.

Plus, it eliminates gun registration / verification on every purchase, and protects individual purchases and sales of firearms. as a bonus it allows individual sellers to verify the legal status of buyers.

Win/win/win.

So what's the downside?

ONE MORE TIME

License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights. Privileges can be revoked. You can give all your information away if you want to. I'll continue buying my guns from friends. No paper work.

 

[Missourian]

Exactly. Gun ownership is a right. Even when some say we have no rights. A privilege is driving. I have a God given right to defend myself from anyone who means me harm whether it be a crack head or the US govt.

We have a whole generation of Americans growing up and beileving that there are no rights just priviliges that big brother gives us.

You have a Constitutionally protected right to vote, but you need a voter registration card to prove you are legally eligible to vote...i.e. a citizen, a resident, not a convicted felon.

You do? Cite it?

Uhhh...it starts with Article 1 section 2..."The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States"...then expanded by the 15th, 17th, 19th, 23rd, and 24th Amendments, culminating in the 26th Amendment.

 

[Missourian]

Proving who you are an American citizen or not is justified. Still again
License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights

But your not just proving you're a citizen, you are also proving you are not a convicted felon, and therefore ineligible to exercise you right to vote.

In the exact same way a verified firearm purchaser card would prove you are a citizen, not a convicted criminal or a domestic abuser, and not a threat to yourself or others.

It seems exactly the same to me.

Plus, it eliminates gun registration / verification on every purchase, and protects individual purchases and sales of firearms. as a bonus it allows individual sellers to verify the legal status of buyers.

Win/win/win.

So what's the downside?

ONE MORE TIME

License constitutes a privilege . Privileges are given by the government they are not rights. Privileges can be revoked. You can give all your information away if you want to. I'll continue buying my guns from friends. No paper work.

Then don't call it a license.

Problem solved.

 

[sparky]

Now here is my common sense approach.

License the individual.

Let me get an endorsement on my license or a separate card, that identifies me as not crazy or a criminal to buy and sell as I wish.

The government doesn't get a record of every firearm purchased, I can still buy and sell my weapons privately and everyone is happy.

Questions, comments, and obscenities from both sides are welcome.

microchip implants come to mind......

 

[JoeB131]

[I am doubting your understanding of what a right is.

Fair enough?

No where does it state in the second anything about back ground checks. You dont have to license your mouth, I dont have to license my guns.

There are no such things as "rights".

Any fool who thinks he has 'rights' should look up "Japanese Americans- 1942".

There are no rights. there are privilages granted to you by society and your fellow citizens. When they decide to take them away from you, you don't have them anymore. Doesn't matter what the constitution says. Just ask the Japanese Americans.

So there is no right to own a gun. There is a privilage the rest of us grant you as long as you don't abuse it.

SOOOOO happy to have cleared that up for you.

That has to be the single most ignorant thing I have read in a long time.

In your little communist socitalist utopia that may be true but not here. We have rights and have died and bled to protect them.

Bullcrap, people get their "rights" taken away from them all the time.

Again, I would go back to the Japanese Americans. We rounded up 100,000 of them without charge, without a hearing, without any real good cause other than their eyes slanted the wrong way. And it was incredibly popular at the time it was done.

That's the point. I can come up with whole lists of times when Americans of certain groups didn't enjoy the "rights" you claim come from the constitution or a benevolent sky pixie.

What we have are laws and interpretations of laws, either of which can change at any time. This is the reality.

And sorry, I don't believe that Jared Loughner has a "god given right" to buy guns when he's out of his freakin' mind. I think we need laws that reasonably protect us from that.

 

[JoeB131]

Now here is my common sense approach.

License the individual.

Let me get an endorsement on my license or a separate card, that identifies me as not crazy or a criminal to buy and sell as I wish.

The government doesn't get a record of every firearm purchased, I can still buy and sell my weapons privately and everyone is happy.

Questions, comments, and obscenities from both sides are welcome.

microchip implants come to mind......

Shhhh... Full Auto and RebNC already think that the government is going to put chips in their buttocks so the UN can track them with their black helicopters.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Now here is my common sense approach.

License the individual.

Let me get an endorsement on my license or a separate card, that identifies me as not crazy or a criminal to buy and sell as I wish.

The government doesn't get a record of every firearm purchased, I can still buy and sell my weapons privately and everyone is happy.

Questions, comments, and obscenities from both sides are welcome.

microchip implants come to mind......

Shhhh... Full Auto and RebNC already think that the government is going to put chips in their buttocks so the UN can track them with their black helicopters.

I see that you have noticed my post enough to reply about me, but to chickenshit to make a reply to the post I have made directed at you and your thread.

Calling Joe I know you have posted since I posted these two replies come on Joe make your argument. You started this thread bring it on

Charles Krauthammer Washington Post 1996

Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquility of the kind enjoyed by sister democracies such as Canada and Britain. Given the frontier history and individualist ideology of the United States, however, this will not come easily. It certainly cannot be done radically. It will probably take one, maybe two generations. It might be 50 years before the United States gets to where Britain is today. Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic - purely symbolic - move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation.

Hello is anyone out there with a functioning brain?

You're right it is.

Well Regulated Militia.

As in regulated by the government.

I'm reasonably sure that they did not mean, Jared Loughner can walk into a store despite being certifiably insane, and purchase a gun with an extra large clip of ammo.

I'm reasonably sure it doesn't mean the Virginia Tech shooter could walk in and buy two guns and then proceed to shoot up forty of his classmates.

Somewhere between the Sarah Brady Gun Grabbers and the NRA "let's arm the kids, too!" Gun huggers, there are sensible people who think that guns should be treated like any other potentially dangerous device- something that should be licensed and regulated.

The term Well Regulate does not mean today what it meant to the founders. Well Regulated to the founders meant in working order.


The founders did not say
A militia well regulated by Congress, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

They said

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated did not mean government over sight

 

[bigrebnc1775]

hello Joe are you now to be known as Joe blow?

 

[Full-Auto]

Now here is my common sense approach.

License the individual.

Let me get an endorsement on my license or a separate card, that identifies me as not crazy or a criminal to buy and sell as I wish.

The government doesn't get a record of every firearm purchased, I can still buy and sell my weapons privately and everyone is happy.

Questions, comments, and obscenities from both sides are welcome.

microchip implants come to mind......

Shhhh... Full Auto and RebNC already think that the government is going to put chips in their buttocks so the UN can track them with their black helicopters.

LOL YOU HAD YOUR ASS WHIPPED IN DEBATE. Now you have been reduced to making stuff up. Just admit youre a pussy and the discussion can end.

 

[Dr Grump]

Annie Getcha Peashooters!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

microchip implants come to mind......

Shhhh... Full Auto and RebNC already think that the government is going to put chips in their buttocks so the UN can track them with their black helicopters.

LOL YOU HAD YOUR ASS WHIPPED IN DEBATE. Now you have been reduced to making stuff up. Just admit youre a pussy and the discussion can end.

I knew Joe blowhard wouldn't last long they never do.

 

[JoeB131]

RebNC-

I see that you have noticed my post enough to reply about me, but to chickenshit to make a reply to the post I have made directed at you and your thread.

because those points were slightly retarded and I didn't want to embarrass you...

Shhhh, the UN Helicopters are coming to get you, barbara!

 

[JoeB131]

microchip implants come to mind......

Shhhh... Full Auto and RebNC already think that the government is going to put chips in their buttocks so the UN can track them with their black helicopters.

LOL YOU HAD YOUR ASS WHIPPED IN DEBATE. Now you have been reduced to making stuff up. Just admit youre a pussy and the discussion can end.

No, all you did was repeat a lot of crazy NRA talking points and acted like a paranoid loon... which was just laughable.

There are no rights, and never were. There are privilages. This is just the reality. Name any right, I can point where it was taken away from someone at some point.

Now, if you were to argue to me, we shouldn't ban guns because guns bans don't work, hey, I'd agree with that. And we should stop trying to ban drugs, abortions and prostitution for pretty much the same reason, but I don't think you wingnuts would be down with that.

But if you were to argue that we shouldn't try to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and crazy people because the bad syntax in the Second Amendment (which was about militias, not guns) created a Holy Right granted by the Invisible Sky Pixie, and if you have to prove you aren't crazy or a criminal to buy one is just an infringement.

Well, that's just batshit crazy and most Americans don't agree with that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

RebNC-

I see that you have noticed my post enough to reply about me, but to chickenshit to make a reply to the post I have made directed at you and your thread.

because those points were slightly retarded and I didn't want to embarrass you...

Shhhh, the UN Helicopters are coming to get you, barbara!

Joe I realize you're new here thinking you can get away with quoting my post but removing it's content. Here you go Joe debunk them.

Charles Krauthammer Washington Post 1996

Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquility of the kind enjoyed by sister democracies such as Canada and Britain. Given the frontier history and individualist ideology of the United States, however, this will not come easily. It certainly cannot be done radically. It will probably take one, maybe two generations. It might be 50 years before the United States gets to where Britain is today. Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic - purely symbolic - move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation.

Hello is anyone out there with a functioning brain?

why is there a debate? the 2nd amendment is pretty fucking clear.

You're right it is.

Well Regulated Militia.

As in regulated by the government.

I'm reasonably sure that they did not mean, Jared Loughner can walk into a store despite being certifiably insane, and purchase a gun with an extra large clip of ammo.

I'm reasonably sure it doesn't mean the Virginia Tech shooter could walk in and buy two guns and then proceed to shoot up forty of his classmates.

Somewhere between the Sarah Brady Gun Grabbers and the NRA "let's arm the kids, too!" Gun huggers, there are sensible people who think that guns should be treated like any other potentially dangerous device- something that should be licensed and regulated.

The term Well Regulate does not mean today what it meant to the founders. Well Regulated to the founders meant in working order.


The founders did not say
A militia well regulated by Congress, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

They said

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated did not mean government over sight

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Shhhh... Full Auto and RebNC already think that the government is going to put chips in their buttocks so the UN can track them with their black helicopters.

LOL YOU HAD YOUR ASS WHIPPED IN DEBATE. Now you have been reduced to making stuff up. Just admit youre a pussy and the discussion can end.

No, all you did was repeat a lot of crazy NRA talking points and acted like a paranoid loon... which was just laughable.

There are no rights, and never were. There are privilages. This is just the reality. Name any right, I can point where it was taken away from someone at some point.

Now, if you were to argue to me, we shouldn't ban guns because guns bans don't work, hey, I'd agree with that. And we should stop trying to ban drugs, abortions and prostitution for pretty much the same reason, but I don't think you wingnuts would be down with that.

But if you were to argue that we shouldn't try to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and crazy people because the bad syntax in the Second Amendment (which was about militias, not guns) created a Holy Right granted by the Invisible Sky Pixie, and if you have to prove you aren't crazy or a criminal to buy one is just an infringement.

Well, that's just batshit crazy and most Americans don't agree with that.

Joe you do realize the original intent behind gun control was to keep guns out of the hands of blacks? So you do realize you're supporting a form of racism?

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, when Krauthammer claims that Canada has lost all their guns rights, he's disingenous. Canadians have the ability to buy guns. They just have to register them. So he's already being dishonest. Krauthammer says a lot of really stupid things. He still thinks the Iraq was was a great idea. So I don't take anything that he says seriously.

Here's my thing. If they confiscated all the guns tomorrow, I could really, really care less. It just isn't important to me. In principle, I think you should be able to enjoy them if that's what you enjoy, but not if you're like a crazy person who thinks he needs to stockpile weapons because the government is going to put a chip in his ass so the UN Black Helicopters can track you.

Well regulated meand exactly that- REGULATED. as in, there are a bunch of rules written down as to who does what. This is what the courts have held, that municipalities, states and the Feds CAN regulate what kind of guns you can have, how many you can have and where you can take them. There are 20,000 guns laws already on the books, as you gun nuts are happy to remind us, and they are constitutional. Even the recent rulings on the gun bans in DC and Chicago still held there was a right to regulate gun ownership.

Now, if you want to argue with me, which laws don't work and which ones do, I'd probably agree, a LOT of those laws are unworkable and even a little sillly. But if you want to argue that a Sky Pixie gave you a right to have any kind of weapon you want, because of the bad syntax of the 2nd Amendment, then I just have to laugh at you.

I mean, why don't you have the right to a 155MM Howitzer in your yard? Right? I mean, heck, why not? And as long as you aren't shelling the neighbors houses, they might bitch about the noise and stuff..

You see how silly your argument sounds when taken to the logical conclusion.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe you do realize the original intent behind gun control was to keep guns out of the hands of blacks? So you do realize you're supporting a form of racism?

Hey,did you know that Hitler was a vegetarian? that means vegetables are evil. That means I don't have to eat my peas.