CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[Divine Wind]

Excellent example of ideology trumping reality.

How is relating the fact that banks lock money in vaults, but people are free to keep it at home "ideology"?

You the one who danced about mandating that people put their money in bank vaults as justification for banning high capacity magazines. Don't your remember?

Banks tend to keep there money in vaults. Is that to limit my freedom to get to my money or is it to stop criminals from getting to it? Couldn't gun controls perform the same function as that vault?

 

[Hiryuu]

Banks are free to do with their money as they wish. Don't you have the freedom to build your own vault? Put your money under a mattress? Do you really want to make it a law requiring all people to put their money in a bank?

Excellent example of ideology trumping reality.

The ideology that people need to be protected from themselves runs deep in certain peoples' perceptions of reality. The ideology that a law regarding magazine capacity would do more to hinder gun violence, doesn't even come close to the same zip code as reality. But, we may as well eat all the bacon we can now, before it becomes someone's reality we need to be saved from ourselves and hardened arteries.

 

[alang1216]

Excellent example of ideology trumping reality.

How is relating the fact that banks lock money in vaults, but people are free to keep it at home "ideology"?

You the one who danced about mandating that people put their money in bank vaults as justification for banning high capacity magazines. Don't your remember?

Banks tend to keep there money in vaults. Is that to limit my freedom to get to my money or is it to stop criminals from getting to it? Couldn't gun controls perform the same function as that vault?

Quite the leap you made there. Banks keep their money in vaults for purely practical reasons and for purely practical reasons, I'd like to see guns kept away from criminals, terrorists, etc. Bank vaults for guns is impractical but registering guns is not.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Quite the leap you made there. Banks keep their money in vaults for purely practical reasons and for purely practical reasons, I'd like to see guns kept away from criminals, terrorists, etc. Bank vaults for guns is impractical but registering guns is not.

Registration does not keep guns from criminals.

 

[Hiryuu]

Bank vaults for guns is impractical but registering guns is not.

Quite a few people keep their firearms locked up in a vault, and that doesn't require them to be registered anywhere, so what's your point? The bank offers no more protection than one can provide for themselves should they choose to. I mean the FDIC will insure any losses up to $150k, but banks have been robbed more times than my gun safe has.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do you need a permit for a magazine if you already have a permit for a firearm?

I have a concealed carry permit which allows me to buy any firearm in my state with no waiting period yet my state limits magazine size to 10 rounds. There is no reason to do so.

What the idiot pols are doing is restricting the rights of law abiding people in order to attempt to curb the behavior of the criminal.

We all know that doesn't work

People are rightly concerned about gun violence and the NRA doesn't seem to offer any solutions. They only block whatever is offered. As I see it, if they were willing to compromise and address the fears of the public, then reason might prevail. Until then we'll just put Band-Aids on the problem to make us feel better.

So tell me how is a magazine limit for people who will never commit crimes with a gun going to stop gun violence?

The only way to stop gun violence is to take the people who commit gun violence off the streets for a very long time telling me I can't have a 9 mm with a 12 round magazine will do nothig to stop a criminal from committing a violent crime with a gun

 

[Skull Pilot]

Unlike you some people do not trust their lives to luck

But please tell me how restricting magazine size will stop criminals from killing people and let me stop you before you say "mass shootings" because we all know and you should know that mass shootings account for less than 1% of all murders

7 is "lucky" for a valid reason, no luck is involved.

If the NRA is irrational in its opposition the results will be irrational laws.

What pray tell is that valid reason?

7 is a number it is not lucky. 13 is a number it is not unlucky

123456789987654321 is a number it is not good or bad naughty or nice

 

[Skull Pilot]

The anti gunners keep pushing for limits on the number of bullets normal people can have in their pistols and rifles........the reason.....if they limit the number to 10, they can ban certain types of pistols and rifles without having to call it a ban and without having to pass gun control legislation banning all of those weapons......

What is the point......who is really effected by magazine bullet limits...

Mass Public shooters....? No. They can kill easily by exchanging magazines...and actual research shows that magazine capacity has no bearing on the number of people killed...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


Criminals....? No. They can get whatever they want...even in countries with complete bans and confiscation of guns....France bans all semi auto rifles and all fully auto rifles...and their criminals and their terrorists get those rifles and standard magazines easily.....

the people who are hurt....those who are law abiding...who are on their own in the face of criminal attack, who will have no help and will have to rely on their pistol to save their life........

so murder shouldn't be illegal because it only affects people who don't commit murder?

what a stupid argument. NRA shills are amusing, if ignorant.

You put people who commit murder in jail for a long time. Tell me what restrictions do you put on people so they won't commit murder?

None.

So put people who commit gun crimes in jail for a long time and don't tell someone who will never commit a crime with a gun what he can or can't have

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why do you need a permit for a magazine if you already have a permit for a firearm?

I have a concealed carry permit which allows me to buy any firearm in my state with no waiting period yet my state limits magazine size to 10 rounds. There is no reason to do so.

What the idiot pols are doing is restricting the rights of law abiding people in order to attempt to curb the behavior of the criminal.

We all know that doesn't work

People are rightly concerned about gun violence and the NRA doesn't seem to offer any solutions. They only block whatever is offered. As I see it, if they were willing to compromise and address the fears of the public, then reason might prevail. Until then we'll just put Band-Aids on the problem to make us feel better.

So tell me how is a magazine limit for people who will never commit crimes with a gun going to stop gun violence?

Your question is racist.

 

[OldLady]

[
Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

So you can engage in a correlation = causation fallacy?

What were YOU doing in the post I replied to?

I didn't see your answer.
Did you ask fo that information so you can engage in a correlation = causation fallacy?

I was asking Skull Pilot for information that pointed out a correlation = causation fallacy that was not even apples to apples. So I asked for a correction. If you don't believe that the two show any kind of cause/effect relationship, I disagree with you but you are welcome to stay out of it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Again.......their criminals have all the access to guns they want.....they prefer fully automatic AK-47s and those rifles have become status symbols among French criminals...........criminals and terrorists get guns easily in France....law abiding people can't get them...
You are wrong...again....

Okay. Prove it. What's the gun death rate in France as compared to the U.S.?

Their criminals don't commit murder as often as our criminals do...regardless of weapon......and yet they have easy access to guns..........our non gun murder rate is higher than their entire murder rate......

It is the criminal culture and their willingness to commit murder that is different...our criminals shoot and murder 9 year old boys in alleys to get revenge on the boys gang banger father......theirs don't do that......

You believe that the mere precense of guns creates gun murder....and that is where you are wrong.......

We had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s......we now have 357,000,000 guns in private hands...and our gun murder rate went down........our gun crime rate went down....our violent crime rate went down......adding guns did not increase gun crime...you are wrong.

Britain confiscated guns from law abiding gun owners...and their gun crime rate stayed the same......

Guns do not create murder.....social factors that create the criminal sub culture and their attitude toward murder do.......

I don't see a French gun murder rate ANYWHERE in this tripe. Are you afraid to answer?

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

 

[GaryDog]

Okay. Prove it. What's the gun death rate in France as compared to the U.S.?

Their criminals don't commit murder as often as our criminals do...regardless of weapon......and yet they have easy access to guns..........our non gun murder rate is higher than their entire murder rate......

It is the criminal culture and their willingness to commit murder that is different...our criminals shoot and murder 9 year old boys in alleys to get revenge on the boys gang banger father......theirs don't do that......

You believe that the mere precense of guns creates gun murder....and that is where you are wrong.......

We had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s......we now have 357,000,000 guns in private hands...and our gun murder rate went down........our gun crime rate went down....our violent crime rate went down......adding guns did not increase gun crime...you are wrong.

Britain confiscated guns from law abiding gun owners...and their gun crime rate stayed the same......

Guns do not create murder.....social factors that create the criminal sub culture and their attitude toward murder do.......

I don't see a French gun murder rate ANYWHERE in this tripe. Are you afraid to answer?

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

[
Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

So you can engage in a correlation = causation fallacy?

What were YOU doing in the post I replied to?

I didn't see your answer.
Did you ask fo that information so you can engage in a correlation = causation fallacy?

I was asking Skull Pilot for information that pointed out a correlation = causation fallacy that was not even apples to apples. So I asked for a correction. If you don't believe that the two show any kind of cause/effect relationship, I disagree with you but you are welcome to stay out of it.

The murder rate is apples to apples.

The only difference is that the UK passed very strict gun laws in 1968 and their murder rate still rose to a peak in the early 90's and then has declined steadily since just like ours

So it is quite clear that more guns does not equal more murders and that very strict gun laws do not equal less murder

 

[Skull Pilot]

Their criminals don't commit murder as often as our criminals do...regardless of weapon......and yet they have easy access to guns..........our non gun murder rate is higher than their entire murder rate......

It is the criminal culture and their willingness to commit murder that is different...our criminals shoot and murder 9 year old boys in alleys to get revenge on the boys gang banger father......theirs don't do that......

You believe that the mere precense of guns creates gun murder....and that is where you are wrong.......

We had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s......we now have 357,000,000 guns in private hands...and our gun murder rate went down........our gun crime rate went down....our violent crime rate went down......adding guns did not increase gun crime...you are wrong.

Britain confiscated guns from law abiding gun owners...and their gun crime rate stayed the same......

Guns do not create murder.....social factors that create the criminal sub culture and their attitude toward murder do.......

I don't see a French gun murder rate ANYWHERE in this tripe. Are you afraid to answer?

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

Funny how more people are killed with knives or hands than with all rifles combined yet there are more rifles in this country than there were in 1950

The gun laws of the UK had no effect on their murder rate after 1968 in fact it went up not down as you say it should have and why is their murder rate not lower than it was in 1950 now ?

So our murder rate is exactly the same as it was in 1950

How many more guns are there today in private hands? A lot more so why isn't our murder rate higher than it was in 1950?

 

[Divine Wind]

Quite the leap you made there. Banks keep their money in vaults for purely practical reasons and for purely practical reasons, I'd like to see guns kept away from criminals, terrorists, etc. Bank vaults for guns is impractical but registering guns is not.

No leap necessary since you are the one dancing around it.

People are free to keep their money in banks or not. Criminals steal from people and rob banks. You are not saying people should be required to put their money in banks, are you? Register their money? So why the leap from banks and money to guns?

 

[M14 Shooter]

[
Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

So you can engage in a correlation = causation fallacy?

What were YOU doing in the post I replied to?

I didn't see your answer.
Did you ask fo that information so you can engage in a correlation = causation fallacy?

I was asking Skull Pilot for information that pointed out a correlation = causation fallacy that was not even apples to apples. So I asked for a correction. If you don't believe that the two show any kind of cause/effect relationship, I disagree with you but you are welcome to stay out of it.

Why do you not understand that correlation doe snot prove causation?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

More guns - more murder?
Please explain the drop in murder and gun-related murder in the US 1993-2014, where the number of guns increased by scores of millions.

 

[Divine Wind]

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

There is statistical data proving a direct correlation between high population density and violent crime. You should focus on banning cities, not disarming the population.

NCJRS Abstract - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
In the Pacific area, no significant association was found between city population density and property crime rates, while violent crime rate and density showed a significant correlation. In the Northeast cities, violent, but not property, crime rates were correlated with population density.

 

[2aguy]

Again.......their criminals have all the access to guns they want.....they prefer fully automatic AK-47s and those rifles have become status symbols among French criminals...........criminals and terrorists get guns easily in France....law abiding people can't get them...
You are wrong...again....

Okay. Prove it. What's the gun death rate in France as compared to the U.S.?

Their criminals don't commit murder as often as our criminals do...regardless of weapon......and yet they have easy access to guns..........our non gun murder rate is higher than their entire murder rate......

It is the criminal culture and their willingness to commit murder that is different...our criminals shoot and murder 9 year old boys in alleys to get revenge on the boys gang banger father......theirs don't do that......

You believe that the mere precense of guns creates gun murder....and that is where you are wrong.......

We had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s......we now have 357,000,000 guns in private hands...and our gun murder rate went down........our gun crime rate went down....our violent crime rate went down......adding guns did not increase gun crime...you are wrong.

Britain confiscated guns from law abiding gun owners...and their gun crime rate stayed the same......

Guns do not create murder.....social factors that create the criminal sub culture and their attitude toward murder do.......

I don't see a French gun murder rate ANYWHERE in this tripe. Are you afraid to answer?

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

That shows nothing.....I have shown you again and again......they had their gun crime rate...which was already lower than ours.......then they confiscated their guns.....

And their gun crime and gun mireder rate did not change.......

Their criminals still got guns...and they still didn't cross the line and murder more people....they have a different criminal culture than our thugs do......

In fact their gun crime rate went up 4% last year..they are importing violent criminals from the Middle East and Western Europe.........those guys...don't mind killing....

 

[2aguy]

Banks tend to keep there money in vaults. Is that to limit my freedom to get to my money or is it to stop criminals from getting to it? Couldn't gun controls perform the same function as that vault?

Banks are free to do with their money as they wish. Don't you have the freedom to build your own vault? Put your money under a mattress? Do you really want to make it a law requiring all people to put their money in a bank?

Excellent example of ideology trumping reality.

Wrong. You hate guns.....so your beliefs about guns will not be swayed by evidence....

200 million guns in private hands in 1990s.....357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016 and our gun murder rate dropped almost 50%... That is the truth....but you don't care.