CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[alang1216]

You are one funny person.....

Thank you, I try to entertain AND educate.

You don't educate or entertain.....so I end up doing that for you....

You misunderstand, I entertain and educate myself.

 

[2aguy]

cars are not a Right.....there is not an infringement issue with airbags....but yes.....I would not mandate them for car companies......if you want one, you pay for one....this is why cars cost 20,000 dollars and many people can't afford them....

That doesn't surprise me, you would rather put someone back together after a car crash than protect them from harm. At least you're consistent.

No......my plan puts known criminals, caught in the act of carrying an illegal gun in prison for 30 years.....as the past Chicago police commissioner stated about felons caught with guns......illegal gun possession is the gateway crime for gun murder.....

You guys...nothing you want to do stops criminals or mass shooters...at all....it would is as that meme states.....you want to take my car away from me because my neighbor is a drunk driver.......stop the actual criminals and you will save lives....add more paperwork, fees and bureaucratic hurdles to normal gun owners and you save no one.....

 

[2aguy]

cars are not a Right.....there is not an infringement issue with airbags....but yes.....I would not mandate them for car companies......if you want one, you pay for one....this is why cars cost 20,000 dollars and many people can't afford them....

That doesn't surprise me, you would rather put someone back together after a car crash than protect them from harm. At least you're consistent.

And also.....car companies and their customers should make the decisions on what features are the best for the needs of the customer.....not you...or a bureaucrat in Washington.......

 

[Skull Pilot]

I didn't mention voting. I thought we were talking abut gun ownership here.
You yourself said you wouldn't tell a cold calling pollster if you owned a gun. So how can you even think that the polls you used to get your info on the number of households that own guns is remotely accurate?

The pollsters are not idiots, they factor in human nature. If you, as an amateur anticipate these reactions you can bet the pros are all over it.

So they just know if someone who owns guns tells them they don't have guns in the house?

There is no way to know how many people lie to pollsters

 

[Skull Pilot]

Therefore legal gun ownership has nothing to do with the murder rate

Since this is no controlled experiment there are certainly many factors at work. What would the murder rate have been if the number of guns and gun owners didn't increase? No one knows, we can only speculate.

We have far more guns in the country than we did in 1950 both legally and illegally owned yet our murder rate today is exactly what it was in 1950.
If the current trend of decreasing violent crime including murder continues we will likely see our murder rate dip below what it is today.

So you cannot say that more guns equals more murders

And I don't speculate on what ifs and hypotheticals. The fact is that people have been murdering each other since there have been people and that the vast vast majority of people will never kill another person whether or not they own a gun

 

[Skull Pilot]

Suicides don't count.

You wouldn't say that to someone who lost a loved one. There was a young guy I knew at my office. He had a bizarre reaction to a combination of prescription drugs and shot himself. Would he still be here if that gun wasn't readily available? Don't know.

And most of the time you'll never see anyone carrying gun in public

That's just fine with me.

Suicide is not a factor in gun crime.
Suicide is not illegal

Just as many suicides are committed by means other than guns so why do you assume that if a person could not get a gun that he wouldn't commit suicide?

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

 

[2aguy]

Therefore legal gun ownership has nothing to do with the murder rate

Since this is no controlled experiment there are certainly many factors at work. What would the murder rate have been if the number of guns and gun owners didn't increase? No one knows, we can only speculate.

We have far more guns in the country than we did in 1950 both legally and illegally owned yet our murder rate today is exactly what it was in 1950.
If the current trend of decreasing violent crime including murder continues we will likely see our murder rate dip below what it is today.

So you cannot say that more guns equals more murders

And I don't speculate on what ifs and hypotheticals. The fact is that people have been murdering each other since there have been people and that the vast vast majority of people will never kill another person whether or not they own a gun

This is the reason obama is releasing felons back into the wild....and allowing violent illegal aliens to stay in the country, and using black lives matter to attack police....in order to push gun control he needs the crime rate to go back up.......just like Fast and Furious, he is creating crime to push the gun control agenda......

 

[2aguy]

Suicides don't count.

You wouldn't say that to someone who lost a loved one. There was a young guy I knew at my office. He had a bizarre reaction to a combination of prescription drugs and shot himself. Would he still be here if that gun wasn't readily available? Don't know.

And most of the time you'll never see anyone carrying gun in public

That's just fine with me.

Suicide is not a factor in gun crime.
Suicide is not illegal

Just as many suicides are committed by means other than guns so why do you assume that if a person could not get a gun that he wouldn't commit suicide?

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

In 2014...non gun suicide was greater than gun suicide.......

 

[2aguy]

Suicides don't count.

You wouldn't say that to someone who lost a loved one. There was a young guy I knew at my office. He had a bizarre reaction to a combination of prescription drugs and shot himself. Would he still be here if that gun wasn't readily available? Don't know.

And most of the time you'll never see anyone carrying gun in public

That's just fine with me.

Suicide is not a factor in gun crime.
Suicide is not illegal

Just as many suicides are committed by means other than guns so why do you assume that if a person could not get a gun that he wouldn't commit suicide?

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

Here are the suicide stats from the CDC for 2014....more people killed themselves without a gun than with a gun.....so...now what do the anti gunners say.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Gun suicide..... 21,334

non gun suicide.... 21,439

 

[Skull Pilot]

Suicides don't count.

You wouldn't say that to someone who lost a loved one. There was a young guy I knew at my office. He had a bizarre reaction to a combination of prescription drugs and shot himself. Would he still be here if that gun wasn't readily available? Don't know.

And most of the time you'll never see anyone carrying gun in public

That's just fine with me.

Suicide is not a factor in gun crime.
Suicide is not illegal

Just as many suicides are committed by means other than guns so why do you assume that if a person could not get a gun that he wouldn't commit suicide?

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

Here are the suicide stats from the CDC for 2014....more people killed themselves without a gun than with a gun.....so...now what do the anti gunners say.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Gun suicide..... 21,334

non gun suicide.... 21,439

Suicide is the biggest red herring in the gun violence discussion. But it pads the numbers of deaths for the anti-gun crowd so they ignore the intellectual dishonesty

 

[alang1216]

The pollsters are not idiots, they factor in human nature. If you, as an amateur anticipate these reactions you can bet the pros are all over it.

So they just know if someone who owns guns tells them they don't have guns in the house?

There is no way to know how many people lie to pollsters

On the contrary they know exactly how many people lied. They don't know who lied but, with a statistically significant sample they can be frighteningly precise.

 

[alang1216]

Just as many suicides are committed by means other than guns so why do you assume that if a person could not get a gun that he wouldn't commit suicide?

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

What would you say to people who argue that there’s no point to locking up a home’s firearms because people in crisis or with suicidal impulses will find some way to get a gun, or will just find another way to kill themselves?
That’s called means substitution, and studies show that there’s not a lot of evidence for it. First of all, research demonstrates that for every step you put between somebody and a firearm, you also decrease suicide and injury and homicide rates. For example, the suicide rate decreases about 10 percent if you keep a gun in your house unloaded. And then it decreases another 10 percent if you keep it locked and unloaded, and then another 10 percent if you keep it locked, unloaded, and keep the ammunition locked somewhere else. If you prolong the time that it takes someone to kill themselves, there’s more time for them to change their minds.

But let’s say that there was 100 percent means substitution, and someone found another way to attempt suicide. There’s not a lot of evidence that people will do that, but there’s also just no other method of committing suicide that’s as lethal as using a firearm. Even if someone then tried to overdose on pills or hang themselves, which is the second most common way to attempt suicide, it’s more likely that their method would fail or someone would intervene in time. And a lot of times, those people go into treatment and they don’t go on to kill themselves. In fact, of those people who attempt suicide and survive, only about 10 percent end up dying from suicide. So if you save someone’s life from a suicide attempt, there’s a very good chance that you really are permanently saving their life.

 

[alang1216]

Here are the suicide stats from the CDC for 2014....more people killed themselves without a gun than with a gun.....so...now what do the anti gunners say.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Gun suicide..... 21,334

non gun suicide.... 21,439

That 21,334 deaths is a tragedy and if some of them can be prevented that is something worth doing.

 

[2aguy]

Just as many suicides are committed by means other than guns so why do you assume that if a person could not get a gun that he wouldn't commit suicide?

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

What would you say to people who argue that there’s no point to locking up a home’s firearms because people in crisis or with suicidal impulses will find some way to get a gun, or will just find another way to kill themselves?
That’s called means substitution, and studies show that there’s not a lot of evidence for it. First of all, research demonstrates that for every step you put between somebody and a firearm, you also decrease suicide and injury and homicide rates. For example, the suicide rate decreases about 10 percent if you keep a gun in your house unloaded. And then it decreases another 10 percent if you keep it locked and unloaded, and then another 10 percent if you keep it locked, unloaded, and keep the ammunition locked somewhere else. If you prolong the time that it takes someone to kill themselves, there’s more time for them to change their minds.

But let’s say that there was 100 percent means substitution, and someone found another way to attempt suicide. There’s not a lot of evidence that people will do that, but there’s also just no other method of committing suicide that’s as lethal as using a firearm. Even if someone then tried to overdose on pills or hang themselves, which is the second most common way to attempt suicide, it’s more likely that their method would fail or someone would intervene in time. And a lot of times, those people go into treatment and they don’t go on to kill themselves. In fact, of those people who attempt suicide and survive, only about 10 percent end up dying from suicide. So if you save someone’s life from a suicide attempt, there’s a very good chance that you really are permanently saving their life.

Again....guns aren't the issue...mental health is.....

non gun suicide was more than gun suicide in 2014....your point is pointless....


Here are the suicide stats from the CDC for 2014....more people killed themselves without a gun than with a gun.....so...now what do the anti gunners say.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Gun suicide..... 21,334

non gun suicide.... 21,439

And again...Japan, South Korea and China, only allow criminals and cops to have guns...and their unarmed civilians kill themselves more than our people do.....they don't use guns..they use trains and jump off of buildings.....

Suicide is not a gun issue.....

Also...these are European countries.....most of them have extreme gun control laws.....in fact, they have every single gun control law that you want.....and they still have higher suicide rates than we do...

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
France... 14.6
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

Guns are not the issue with suicide...but keep pushing it.......it isn't deaths by suicide that you have a problem with....it is the mere presence of guns ....

 

[2aguy]

Here are the suicide stats from the CDC for 2014....more people killed themselves without a gun than with a gun.....so...now what do the anti gunners say.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Gun suicide..... 21,334

non gun suicide.... 21,439

That 21,334 deaths is a tragedy and if some of them can be prevented that is something worth doing.

Yep.....that is why we need better health care.......I guess the 21,439 deaths by suicide without a gun don't matter to you....since you are only concerned with the gun suicides.

 

[alang1216]

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

If it is a rational choice, made by someone in their right mind, I agree. However, I think most attempts at suicide are cries for help since most don't keep trying until they succeed.

off topic: A pet theory of mine is that some mass shootings, e.g., Columbine, are really suicide attempts.

 

[2aguy]

Here are the suicide stats from the CDC for 2014....more people killed themselves without a gun than with a gun.....so...now what do the anti gunners say.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf

Gun suicide..... 21,334

non gun suicide.... 21,439

That 21,334 deaths is a tragedy and if some of them can be prevented that is something worth doing.

Each year Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack, saving lives, and many times to stop mass public shootings....1,500,000 times a year.....so anything that will make it harder for Americans to save lives with guns is a non starter.....

 

[2aguy]

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

If it is a rational choice, made by someone in their right mind, I agree. However, I think most attempts at suicide are cries for help since most don't keep trying until they succeed.

off topic: A pet theory of mine is that some mass shootings, e.g., Columbine, are really suicide attempts.

No.....they wanted to murder a whole bunch of people...including first responders.....do some research....

 

[alang1216]

Guns are not the issue with suicide...but keep pushing it.......it isn't deaths by suicide that you have a problem with....it is the mere presence of guns ....

1/2 of suicides in this country use guns so it is an issue. Suicide by other means is just as tragic, they are just off topic and gun control would have no effect on them.

 

[2aguy]

IMO suicide is a choice and people have the right to decide for themselves whether they want to live or not

If it is a rational choice, made by someone in their right mind, I agree. However, I think most attempts at suicide are cries for help since most don't keep trying until they succeed.

off topic: A pet theory of mine is that some mass shootings, e.g., Columbine, are really suicide attempts.

Try this....on Columbine...

At last we know why the Columbine killers did it.

The first steps to understanding Columbine, they say, are to forget the popular narrative about the jocks, Goths, and Trenchcoat Mafia—click here to read more about Columbine's myths—and to abandon the core idea that Columbine was simply a school shooting. We can't understand why they did it until we understand what they were doing.

---The killers, in fact, laughed at petty school shooters. They bragged about dwarfing the carnage of the Oklahoma City bombing and originally scheduled their bloody performance for its anniversary. Klebold boasted on video about inflicting "the most deaths in U.S. history." Columbine was intended not primarily as a shooting at all, but as a bombing on a massive scale.

If they hadn't been so bad at wiring the timers, the propane bombs they set in the cafeteria would have wiped out 600 people. After those bombs went off, they planned to gun down fleeing survivors. An explosive third act would follow, when their cars, packed with still more bombs, would rip through still more crowds, presumably of survivors, rescue workers, and reporters. The climax would be captured on live television. It wasn't just "fame" they were after—Agent Fuselier bristles at that trivializing term—they were gunning for devastating infamy on the historical scale of an Attila the Hun. Their vision was to create a nightmare so devastating and apocalyptic that the entire world would shudder at their power.

---

But Harris was cold, calculating, and homicidal. "Klebold was hurting inside while Harris wanted to hurt people," Fuselier says. Harris was not merely a troubled kid, the psychiatrists say, he was a psychopath.