CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[alang1216]

But the most important point........More Americans owning and actually carrying guns did not increase the gun murder rate......

All that may be true but guns are still dangerous as the suicide rates indicate and if I see someone I don't know carrying a gun I'll still walk the other way.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wrong.....some anonymous person calls up asking you if you have a gun in your home.....not answering that....it could be anyone, including criminals......

Right, if some anonymous person calls up asking me if I have a gun in my home, I'm not answering that either. That doesn't mean those that do reply somehow skew the results.

it depends on the sample size and since there is no way to confirm the answers of these polls they are useless

That's ridiculous. There is no way to confirm how a person will vote but political polls are generally accurate. There is plenty of established science for randomizing and sample size.

I didn't mention voting. I thought we were talking abut gun ownership here.
You yourself said you wouldn't tell a cold calling pollster if you owned a gun. So how can you even think that the polls you used to get your info on the number of households that own guns is remotely accurate?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have just shown you how the number of gun owners can increase even as the percentage of gun owners decreases. So there are more guns owners and less crime

It is a correlation at the very least

Not relevant since crime statistics are also percentages and besides, you can't claim a correlation between crime and guns. It could have been the aging of the US population that caused the decrease in crime, which would have made sense since crime is generally confined to the young.

There are more gun owners now than there were in 1950 yes or no?

Yes

Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was in 1950 yes or no

Yes

Therefore legal gun ownership has nothing to do with the murder rate

And don't confuse correlation with causation. The increase in gun ownership since the 90's correlates with the decrease in overall crime rates including murders. I never said it was a causal effect

 

[Skull Pilot]

But the most important point........More Americans owning and actually carrying guns did not increase the gun murder rate......

All that may be true but guns are still dangerous as the suicide rates indicate and if I see someone I don't know carrying a gun I'll still walk the other way.

Suicides don't count.
And most of the time you'll never see anyone carrying gun in public

 

[2aguy]

But the most important point........More Americans owning and actually carrying guns did not increase the gun murder rate......

All that may be true but guns are still dangerous as the suicide rates indicate and if I see someone I don't know carrying a gun I'll still walk the other way.

Non gun suicide rates are just under the gun suicide rate......and I think last data showed they were slightly ahead.......

Suicide is not a gun issue....the Japanese, Chinese and South Koreans only allow criminals and cops to have guns....but their citizens kill themselves more often than ours do........guns are not an issue....

 

[2aguy]

But the most important point........More Americans owning and actually carrying guns did not increase the gun murder rate......

All that may be true but guns are still dangerous as the suicide rates indicate and if I see someone I don't know carrying a gun I'll still walk the other way.

Yeah......Like I thought......non gun suicides just out paced gun suicides.......now what do you say....?

Gun suicide vs. non gun suicide:

2013:

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974

2014:

Gun suicide in 2014..... 21,334 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

non gun suicide in 2014...21,359 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

------

 

[2aguy]

I have just shown you how the number of gun owners can increase even as the percentage of gun owners decreases. So there are more guns owners and less crime

It is a correlation at the very least

Not relevant since crime statistics are also percentages and besides, you can't claim a correlation between crime and guns. It could have been the aging of the US population that caused the decrease in crime, which would have made sense since crime is generally confined to the young.

There are more gun owners now than there were in 1950 yes or no?

Yes

Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was in 1950 yes or no

Yes

Therefore legal gun ownership has nothing to do with the murder rate

And don't confuse correlation with causation. The increase in gun ownership since the 90's correlates with the decrease in overall crime rates including murders. I never said it was a causal effect

Yet there is research that says there is a causal effect....

 

[alang1216]

I didn't mention voting. I thought we were talking abut gun ownership here.
You yourself said you wouldn't tell a cold calling pollster if you owned a gun. So how can you even think that the polls you used to get your info on the number of households that own guns is remotely accurate?

The pollsters are not idiots, they factor in human nature. If you, as an amateur anticipate these reactions you can bet the pros are all over it.

 

[alang1216]

Therefore legal gun ownership has nothing to do with the murder rate

Since this is no controlled experiment there are certainly many factors at work. What would the murder rate have been if the number of guns and gun owners didn't increase? No one knows, we can only speculate.

 

[2aguy]

I didn't mention voting. I thought we were talking abut gun ownership here.
You yourself said you wouldn't tell a cold calling pollster if you owned a gun. So how can you even think that the polls you used to get your info on the number of households that own guns is remotely accurate?

The pollsters are not idiots, they factor in human nature. If you, as an amateur anticipate these reactions you can bet the pros are all over it.

They can't even deal with the move to cell phones yet......

 

[2aguy]

Therefore legal gun ownership has nothing to do with the murder rate

Since this is no controlled experiment there are certainly many factors at work. What would the murder rate have been if the number of guns and gun owners didn't increase? No one knows, we can only speculate.

You mean other than the gun murder rate going down after more Americans bought more guns...you mean that murder rate....

200 million guns in the 1990s........357,000,000 guns in 2016...the gun murder rate went down 49%...

You mean that effect?

 

[alang1216]

Suicides don't count.

You wouldn't say that to someone who lost a loved one. There was a young guy I knew at my office. He had a bizarre reaction to a combination of prescription drugs and shot himself. Would he still be here if that gun wasn't readily available? Don't know.

And most of the time you'll never see anyone carrying gun in public

That's just fine with me.

 

[2aguy]

Suicides don't count.

You wouldn't say that to someone who lost a loved one. There was a young guy I knew at my office. He had a bizarre reaction to a combination of prescription drugs and shot himself. Would he still be here if that gun wasn't readily available? Don't know.

And most of the time you'll never see anyone carrying gun in public

That's just fine with me.

And people taking their own lives is not a reason to deny Americans a basic Civil Right......deal with the mental health issue...leave gun owners alone.

 

[alang1216]

You mean other than the gun murder rate going down after more Americans bought more guns...you mean that murder rate....

200 million guns in the 1990s........357,000,000 guns in 2016...the gun murder rate went down 49%...

You mean that effect?

Exactly. If the number of guns went to the 300 million number instead of increasing to 357 million can you assure me the 49% decline would not have been greater?

 

[2aguy]

You mean other than the gun murder rate going down after more Americans bought more guns...you mean that murder rate....

200 million guns in the 1990s........357,000,000 guns in 2016...the gun murder rate went down 49%...

You mean that effect?

Exactly. If the number of guns went to the 300 million number instead of increasing to 357 million can you assure me the 49% decline would not have been greater?

You are one funny person.....

 

[alang1216]

And people taking their own lives is not a reason to deny Americans a basic Civil Right......deal with the mental health issue...leave gun owners alone.

Are you against mandatory air bags in cars too? After all, your "life" is a basic right so you shouldn't be forced to protect it.

 

[alang1216]

You are one funny person.....

Thank you, I try to entertain AND educate.

 

[2aguy]

And people taking their own lives is not a reason to deny Americans a basic Civil Right......deal with the mental health issue...leave gun owners alone.

Are you against mandatory air bags in cars too? After all, your "life" is a basic right so you shouldn't be forced to protect it.

cars are not a Right.....there is not an infringement issue with airbags....but yes.....I would not mandate them for car companies......if you want one, you pay for one....this is why cars cost 20,000 dollars and many people can't afford them....

 

[2aguy]

You are one funny person.....

Thank you, I try to entertain AND educate.

You don't educate or entertain.....so I end up doing that for you....

 

[alang1216]

cars are not a Right.....there is not an infringement issue with airbags....but yes.....I would not mandate them for car companies......if you want one, you pay for one....this is why cars cost 20,000 dollars and many people can't afford them....

That doesn't surprise me, you would rather put someone back together after a car crash than protect them from harm. At least you're consistent.