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You can take the hard line if you want, but that doesn't help make anything better. We can make things better for Cops if we provide a better non lethal weapon alternative. If it helps a few cops from losing their jobs and having their lives destroyed, or if it keeps a few more Black people from being killed because they ran during an arrest then I say it's worth it. As always jmo.The division in our country today has absolutely nothing at all to do with police and guns. There is no weapon that you could build that would change or reduce or eliminate the division in our country.
WACO, it was the non- leathal grenades that cause most of the death through the fire.I already told you, your dream of a non-lethal weapon that would stop someone doesn't exist. There are less-lethal weapons available but no non-lethal weapons.Again I am not looking for PERFECT. I am looking for BETTER. I think we can equip Cops with a BETTER non-lethal weapon than a Taser. BETTER is a pretty low bar considering all the problems with Tasers.
There is only one answer that will reduce deaths by police: don't fight with the police. If people learn that fighting with the police yields dead attackers more often than not then people will stop fighting with the police. The expectation of surviving a fight with the police only leads to more dead citizens and more dead police.
When the police say, "Stop!", then stop. When they say, "Drop it!", then drop it. When they say, "Down on the ground!", then get down on the ground. Live to be a witness in court rather than a poster sized photo on a tripod in the courtroom.
Right or wrong, take your fight to the courts. I'll stand at your funeral and yell at the top of my lungs that it was your constitutional right to resist arrest, even with deadly force, if that arrest is unconstitutional, but you won't know I did it.
Death by Bean Bag:
Youth Killed by ‘Bean Bag’ (Published 1973)
M Ortiz, 18, is killed on July 28 when he is struck by 'bean bag' projectile fired from police crowd control gun designed to inflict pain but not serious injury in Grants, NM; police were trying to disperse 150 youths involved in gang fightwww.nytimes.com
Death by Rubber Bullet:
Rubber/plastic bullets used for crowd control can maim and kill - BMJ Open
Given their inherent inaccuracy, they shouldn’t be used for this purpose, say researchers Rubber/plastic bullets used for crowd control can maim and kill, and given their inherent inaccuracy, they shouldn’t be used for this purpose, concludes a review of the available evidence, published in the...blogs.bmj.com
Death by Tear Gas:
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Probe launched into death of OSU grad tear-gassed at protest
An Ohio State University grad died shortly after getting sprayed with tear gas at a Columbus rally protesting the death of George Floyd, prompting the city to open an investigation into her sudden death.www.nydailynews.com
What makes you think people are not doing this very thing?If as you say there is nothing better than what we currently have, then that sounds like a great opportunity for a better design for a non lethal weapon. Technology is always improving I see no reason to just accept what we have as the best we can do. When have we ever done that? I'm a pragmatist, let's just try to improve a terrible situation. Our country is becoming more divided everyday over this insanity.I already told you, your dream of a non-lethal weapon that would stop someone doesn't exist. There are less-lethal weapons available but no non-lethal weapons.Again I am not looking for PERFECT. I am looking for BETTER. I think we can equip Cops with a BETTER non-lethal weapon than a Taser. BETTER is a pretty low bar considering all the problems with Tasers.
There is only one answer that will reduce deaths by police: don't fight with the police. If people learn that fighting with the police yields dead attackers more often than not then people will stop fighting with the police. The expectation of surviving a fight with the police only leads to more dead citizens and more dead police.
When the police say, "Stop!", then stop. When they say, "Drop it!", then drop it. When they say, "Down on the ground!", then get down on the ground. Live to be a witness in court rather than a poster sized photo on a tripod in the courtroom.
Right or wrong, take your fight to the courts. I'll stand at your funeral and yell at the top of my lungs that it was your constitutional right to resist arrest, even with deadly force, if that arrest is unconstitutional, but you won't know I did it.
Death by Bean Bag:
Youth Killed by ‘Bean Bag’ (Published 1973)
M Ortiz, 18, is killed on July 28 when he is struck by 'bean bag' projectile fired from police crowd control gun designed to inflict pain but not serious injury in Grants, NM; police were trying to disperse 150 youths involved in gang fight
Death by Rubber Bullet:
Rubber/plastic bullets used for crowd control can maim and kill - BMJ Open
Given their inherent inaccuracy, they shouldn’t be used for this purpose, say researchers Rubber/plastic bullets used for crowd control can maim and kill, and given their inherent inaccuracy, they shouldn’t be used for this purpose, concludes a review of the available evidence, published in the...
Death by Tear Gas:
Probe launched into death of OSU grad tear-gassed at protest
An Ohio State University grad died shortly after getting sprayed with tear gas at a Columbus rally protesting the death of George Floyd, prompting the city to open an investigation into her sudden death.
You can take the hard line if you want, but that doesn't help make anything better. We can make things better for Cops if we provide a better non lethal weapon alternative. If it helps a few cops from losing their jobs and having their lives destroyed, or if it keeps a few more Black people from being killed because they ran during an arrest then I say it's worth it. As always jmo.The division in our country today has absolutely nothing at all to do with police and guns. There is no weapon that you could build that would change or reduce or eliminate the division in our country.
www.statista.com
Riot cops do. Why the normal e ery day cop does not IDK. Most these bullets are shot by shot guns is likely the answer. HRd to carry.I thought I read somewhere that there are guns that fire special rounds that are very large and powerful that can knock down and/or stun a large person without killing the person. Is there such a weapon and if so, why don't Cops have that weapon?
I thought I read somewhere that there are guns that fire special rounds that are very large and powerful that can knock down and/or stun a large person without killing the person. Is there such a weapon and if so, why don't Cops have that weapon?
I thought I read somewhere that there are guns that fire special rounds that are very large and powerful that can knock down and/or stun a large person without killing the person. Is there such a weapon and if so, why don't Cops have that weapon?
| Caliber | Type | Velocity (fps) | Energy (ft-lb) |
|---|---|---|---|
| .380 Auto ACP | Handgun | 980 | 190 |
| .40 S&W | Handgun | 1070 | 420 |
You can take the hard line if you want, but that doesn't help make anything better. We can make things better for Cops if we provide a better non lethal weapon alternative. If it helps a few cops from losing their jobs and having their lives destroyed, or if it keeps a few more Black people from being killed because they ran during an arrest then I say it's worth it. As always jmo.The division in our country today has absolutely nothing at all to do with police and guns. There is no weapon that you could build that would change or reduce or eliminate the division in our country.
It's a red herring. It doesn't solve a problem. You're looking for a perfect world and it doesn't exist. You pretend you're not looking for perfection but when you're trying to solve the killing of 18 people a year while ignoring the killing of thousands then you're not being honest or realistic in this discussion.
When addressing problems, it makes most sense to start with the biggest, the highest impact, or the largest risks and work your way down. There are enough bigger problems to solve that would really affect the lives of black and brown people, or, even better, of all people without regard to race, to worry about the 18 unarmed black people killed by police last year.
This story argues that other estimates for 2019 are low so it claims that police killed 25 unarmed blacks in 2019:
Fact check: Police killed more unarmed Black men in 2019 than conservative activist claimed
A prominent conservative activist said in a Facebook video that police only killed eight unarmed Black men in the U.S. in 2019. That claim is false.www.usatoday.com
For the same year, 2019, this article claims approximately 7500 blacks murdered.
Murder in the U.S.: victims by race 2022 | Statista
In 2022, the FBI reported that there were 10,470 Black murder victims in the United States and 7,704 White murder victims.
So quit trying to suggest that stopping a few out of 25 deaths will improve the lives of black Americans while you ignore the 7500 deaths that actually would improve life.
Yes I would, if the weapon was proven to be as reliable as a gun in neutralizing a threat without killing him. Maybe that weapon doesn't exist, but guess what? We have really smart people who live here. Let's build a better weapon. I am a huge advocate for the police and I want them provided with every protection. But I don't think it's right for people to be shot dead because they are running away. Where is the deadly threat to the police in those cases?"Kill" is easy to define but "incapacitate" is much harder. Would you risk the life of a family member who defends him/herself with a weapon that can only incapacitate when confronted with a maniac who is armed with a deadly weapon?
When the police shoot someone, the goal is to stop their illegal behavior instantly. Just as in the Columbus case, where the attacker's swing was in full force and only inches left before the knife found the neck of the intended victim. Anything less than a shot that killed the attacker or a shot that was so powerful that it knocked her instantly on her ass would not have saved the victim. Four shots it took before the attacker went down. Three shots would have, most likely, have left the innocent victim dead rather than the attacker.A .380 rarely kills, but it stops anyone.
There is no need for any more lethal caliber for police.
The only people who need a more powerful caliber are the military or people in bear country.
Cops have plenty of toys like tasers, plus they fire beanbag rounds from shotguns.I thought I read somewhere that there are guns that fire special rounds that are very large and powerful that can knock down and/or stun a large person without killing the person. Is there such a weapon and if so, why don't Cops have that weapon?
Not true.
Police kill thousands a year.
The number of people they justifiably kill is only about 25, but they kill almost 10 times that number.
And the police almost never need to kill anyone.
No one is ambushing police in order to try to kill them.
They are just trying to get away usually.
And the reality is that the police caused the War on Drugs to kill many thousands more.
If not for the War on Drugs, there would not be all the killings over large amounts of drug cash, turf wars, etc.
We know this from Prohibition.
www.the-sun.com
I thought I read somewhere that there are guns that fire special rounds that are very large and powerful that can knock down and/or stun a large person without killing the person. Is there such a weapon and if so, why don't Cops have that weapon?
Like bean bag rounds?
The Taser isn't non-lethal, it's advertised by the manufacturer as less lethal. As in less lethal than a firearm.There HAS to be a better non lethal option than a Taser.
jackass ASterling is a perfect example...he FOUGHT with the cops and had pistol....they tried to taser first, but it didn't workLess than lethal can sometimes mean lethal for the cop.
Standard practice in a lot of police departments is if there are two officers on the scene one has his tazer out and the other has his standard side arm out.
Tazers dont always work,especially through a thick winter jacket.
Yes I would, if the weapon was proven to be as reliable as a gun in neutralizing a threat without killing him. Maybe that weapon doesn't exist, but guess what? We have really smart people who live here. Let's build a better weapon. I am a huge advocate for the police and I want them provided with every protection. But I don't think it's right for people to be shot dead because they are running away. Where is the deadly threat to the police in those cases?"Kill" is easy to define but "incapacitate" is much harder. Would you risk the life of a family member who defends him/herself with a weapon that can only incapacitate when confronted with a maniac who is armed with a deadly weapon?
When the police shoot someone, the goal is to stop their illegal behavior instantly. Just as in the Columbus case, where the attacker's swing was in full force and only inches left before the knife found the neck of the intended victim. Anything less than a shot that killed the attacker or a shot that was so powerful that it knocked her instantly on her ass would not have saved the victim. Four shots it took before the attacker went down. Three shots would have, most likely, have left the innocent victim dead rather than the attacker.A .380 rarely kills, but it stops anyone.
There is no need for any more lethal caliber for police.
The only people who need a more powerful caliber are the military or people in bear country.
The shot has to be powerful enough, traumatic enough, to stop even the forward momentum of the attack, not just get compliance. When you're fully engaged in an action, the mind doesn't stop quickly enough to stop the action; it reacts too slowly. Unless, of course, the mind is stopped completely.
It's idiotic to think that you can save a life with a weapon that doesn't immediately stop an attacker.
Less lethal weapons (still many are not getting it: there are no "non-lethal" weapons) like rubber bullets and bean bags are for things like crowd dispersement, not for stopping a violent attacker.
