Gun control….only 2% think it is a serious issue this election cycle…..go for it dems...

[BULLDOG]

So? Just because it isn't seen as the most important problem doesn't mean it's not a problem. I do realize that most of that 2% are scared little gun nuts who think the gun they hide behind might be taken from them. You get the same reaction from a toddler if they think you are going to take their pacifier.

So since most gun violence is in black ghettos....I assume the discussion starts there?

Well, no. The black community aren't the ones blocking reasonable gun control laws. It's the NRA and bought politicians.

Oh, duh! I get it now. The reason for the gun related carnage on our streets, predominantly streets in black neighborhoods, is because the criminal thugs doing all the shootings find the reams of existing gun laws unreasonable. So, yeah, as soon as we pass more reasonable gun laws the criminal thugs will be the first onboard and all will be hunky-dory in the hoods forever and ever.

You know that isn't what I said. Why are you playing dumb, or are you playing?

 

[BULLDOG]

You think guns will take care of your fear. They don't.

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

 

[BULLDOG]

So? Just because it isn't seen as the most important problem doesn't mean it's not a problem. I do realize that most of that 2% are scared little gun nuts who think the gun they hide behind might be taken from them. You get the same reaction from a toddler if they think you are going to take their pacifier.

So since most gun violence is in black ghettos....I assume the discussion starts there?

Well, no. The black community aren't the ones blocking reasonable gun control laws. It's the NRA and bought politicians.

Please…what reasonable gun control is being blocked…otherwise you are just posting crap.

Also, please be specific as to how your "reasonable gun control" will actually effect the problem………most of the time you anti gunners go blah blah…NRA….blah blah….gun control…blah blah blah……and then believe we have to take you seriously when you have proposed nothing, explained nothing and simply bitched about the NRA protecting a civil right...

I've had this discussion with yo many times. You're nuts, and wouldn't know reason if it bit you on the ass. Think what you want idiot. You are beyond reaching in any rational way.

 

[2aguy]

So? Just because it isn't seen as the most important problem doesn't mean it's not a problem. I do realize that most of that 2% are scared little gun nuts who think the gun they hide behind might be taken from them. You get the same reaction from a toddler if they think you are going to take their pacifier.

So since most gun violence is in black ghettos....I assume the discussion starts there?

Well, no. The black community aren't the ones blocking reasonable gun control laws. It's the NRA and bought politicians.

Please…what reasonable gun control is being blocked…otherwise you are just posting crap.

Also, please be specific as to how your "reasonable gun control" will actually effect the problem………most of the time you anti gunners go blah blah…NRA….blah blah….gun control…blah blah blah……and then believe we have to take you seriously when you have proposed nothing, explained nothing and simply bitched about the NRA protecting a civil right...

I've had this discussion with yo many times. You're nuts, and wouldn't know reason if it bit you on the ass. Think what you want idiot. You are beyond reaching in any rational way.

So....again...you can't explain how any of your common sense gun control measures would actually do what you say you want them to do...other than to say...they won't stop all criminals but we just have to try.....

And of course not one of your ideas is stopping or would stop future criminals and mass shooters from getting guns...but again...it does make sure that normal, law abiding people who shoot no one with their guns will pay more, wait longer and often be unable to get certain makes and models of guns........and criminals and mass shooters will get whatever they want.....

And then you ***** about me......typical.....so typical....

 

[BULLDOG]

So? Just because it isn't seen as the most important problem doesn't mean it's not a problem. I do realize that most of that 2% are scared little gun nuts who think the gun they hide behind might be taken from them. You get the same reaction from a toddler if they think you are going to take their pacifier.

So since most gun violence is in black ghettos....I assume the discussion starts there?

Well, no. The black community aren't the ones blocking reasonable gun control laws. It's the NRA and bought politicians.

Please…what reasonable gun control is being blocked…otherwise you are just posting crap.

Also, please be specific as to how your "reasonable gun control" will actually effect the problem………most of the time you anti gunners go blah blah…NRA….blah blah….gun control…blah blah blah……and then believe we have to take you seriously when you have proposed nothing, explained nothing and simply bitched about the NRA protecting a civil right...

I've had this discussion with yo many times. You're nuts, and wouldn't know reason if it bit you on the ass. Think what you want idiot. You are beyond reaching in any rational way.

So....again...you can't explain how any of your common sense gun control measures would actually do what you say you want them to do...other than to say...they won't stop all criminals but we just have to try.....

And of course not one of your ideas is stopping or would stop future criminals and mass shooters from getting guns...but again...it does make sure that normal, law abiding people who shoot no one with their guns will pay more, wait longer and often be unable to get certain makes and models of guns........and criminals and mass shooters will get whatever they want.....

And then you ***** about me......typical.....so typical....

Not bitching about you. I laugh at you. There is a little pity for you too, but not much.

 

[2aguy]

You think guns will take care of your fear. They don't.

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

Or attend a concert....

Or attend a christmas party...

Or attend an editors meeting about the next issue of Charlie Hebdo...

Or attend a draw mohammed cartoon contest...

Or attend a showing of Batman...

Or go to a mall....

or go to any of a number of places where criminals and mass shooters have chosen to attack....mainly because fools such as you have made them all gun free zones.......

 

[2aguy]

Yes......still now answer to the common sense gun control you want...or how it would work.....

 

[BULLDOG]

You think guns will take care of your fear. They don't.

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

Or attend a concert....

Or attend a christmas party...

Or attend an editors meeting about the next issue of Charlie Hebdo...

Or attend a draw mohammed cartoon contest...

Or attend a showing of Batman...

Or go to a mall....

or go to any of a number of places where criminals and mass shooters have chosen to attack....mainly because fools such as you have made them all gun free zones.......

You've mentioned 6 incidents out of the billions of billions that happen every day. Sad that you are so afraid. I guess it's because of something that happened in your childhood.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You think guns will take care of your fear. They don't.

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

 

[2aguy]

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

Or attend a concert....

Or attend a christmas party...

Or attend an editors meeting about the next issue of Charlie Hebdo...

Or attend a draw mohammed cartoon contest...

Or attend a showing of Batman...

Or go to a mall....

or go to any of a number of places where criminals and mass shooters have chosen to attack....mainly because fools such as you have made them all gun free zones.......

You've mentioned 6 incidents out of the billions of billions that happen every day. Sad that you are so afraid. I guess it's because of something that happened in your childhood.

Each year Armed Americans stop 1.5 million violent attacks by criminals...according to bill clinton and backed up by President obama and research he commissioned from the CDC in 2013.......

Those are the attacks stopped.........the rest are stories of victims who woke up one morning and later that day were raped, robbed, beaten, stabbed, kidnapped and murdered........and in each case they all thought like you did...never going to happen to me.........and then it did....

 

[BULLDOG]

You think guns will take care of your fear. They don't.

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

Being armed is being afraid something bad will happen to you at any time. I refuse to be that much of a coward.You should at least try to work up a little courage. It will help that self esteem problem you have.

 

[BULLDOG]

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

Or attend a concert....

Or attend a christmas party...

Or attend an editors meeting about the next issue of Charlie Hebdo...

Or attend a draw mohammed cartoon contest...

Or attend a showing of Batman...

Or go to a mall....

or go to any of a number of places where criminals and mass shooters have chosen to attack....mainly because fools such as you have made them all gun free zones.......

You've mentioned 6 incidents out of the billions of billions that happen every day. Sad that you are so afraid. I guess it's because of something that happened in your childhood.

Each year Armed Americans stop 1.5 million violent attacks by criminals...according to bill clinton and backed up by President obama and research he commissioned from the CDC in 2013.......

Those are the attacks stopped.........the rest are stories of victims who woke up one morning and later that day were raped, robbed, beaten, stabbed, kidnapped and murdered........and in each case they all thought like you did...never going to happen to me.........and then it did....

Then you should hide under your bed.

 

[2aguy]

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

Being armed is being afraid something bad will happen to you at any time. I refuse to be that much of a coward.You should at least try to work up a little courage. It will help that self esteem problem you have.

It is soooo cute when a left winger tries to talk about courage and cowardice......as if they understand either one.......

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

Being armed is being afraid something bad will happen to you at any time. I refuse to be that much of a coward.You should at least try to work up a little courage. It will help that self esteem problem you have.

I'm sure the countless victims of mass shootings wished that they had been armed.

You talk tough but you would wet your pants when a .45 is shoved down your throat.

 

[BULLDOG]

I've had a gun pointed at me, and I don't know what caliber it was, but to me, the barrel looked to be about the size of a coke can. Yes, I was scared, but I'm not going to take that fear with me every day in everything I do for the rest of my life. Sad for you that you have to cling so tightly to your fears.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I've had a gun pointed at me, and I don't know what caliber it was, but to me, the barrel looked to be about the size of a coke can. Yes, I was scared, but I'm not going to take that fear with me every day in everything I do for the rest of my life. Sad for you that you have to cling so tightly to your fears.

I'm sure you have.

 

[Dhara]

You think guns will take care of your fear. They don't.

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

Actually, I live in a place where I do not worry about security or safety. I wouldn't want a gun in my house. Being armed is unnecessary.

 

[BULLDOG]

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

Being armed is being afraid something bad will happen to you at any time. I refuse to be that much of a coward.You should at least try to work up a little courage. It will help that self esteem problem you have.

It is soooo cute when a left winger tries to talk about courage and cowardice......as if they understand either one.......

I know only a coward would fear something bad happening so much till he thought he needed a gun for protection every minute of every day. You must be a nervous wreck.

 

[Dhara]

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

Being armed is being afraid something bad will happen to you at any time. I refuse to be that much of a coward.You should at least try to work up a little courage. It will help that self esteem problem you have.

I'm sure the countless victims of mass shootings wished that they had been armed.

You talk tough but you would wet your pants when a .45 is shoved down your throat.

What kind of a creep wants to make someone wet their pants by shoving a .45 down their throat? Apparently you do.

 

[BULLDOG]

Dear Dhara
yes and no.
1. guns don't solve the mental illness issue or cure criminal illness.

2. but guns do deter or stop crimes in process, such as in the LA riots
where shops that let rioters know they were armed weren't attacked,
and the trained guard who killed a shooter in church before he could shoot any more people.
Jeanne Assam: The Forgotten Woman Who Stopped a Church Shooting-Truth!

And
3. we need to stop arguing about the political beliefs, recognize those differences,
and shape public policy to address BOTH concerns instead of "either / or"

it's ALL the above: addressing mental illness and medically proven diagnosis and cure.
a system of referring people to get help before crimes or dangers go too far.
safe standardized training and enforcement of laws for people who are going to use arms for that,
similar to police and military, so there is proper screening - one benefit being that all people
in govt could better be held to agreed standards if the public can agree on these standards.

It is important we agree on Constitutional standards
so we can hold govt consistently to the same.
see ethics-commission.net for the minimum principles I would teach all citizens
to enforce in order to hold govt accountable to the same and correct any grievances.

Otherwise politicians take this KNOWN conflict, and abuse it for political points.
Instead of solving the problem, by seeking solutions that satisfy both the rightwing
and leftwing way of looking at the gun issues, the parties keep PLAYING ON THE FEAR.

You may blame rightwing party members for using this issue as false security to appease their fear.
The SAME can be said of leftwing party members using their party to run policies through govt
to appease their fears.

Fear is on both sides. So if we solved the problems, then no more political games or points
can be made from the fear on either side, especially not the fear that the other party is dominating the show.

I do not have a problem with the Second Amendment. I think some people should not have guns. Those who show a propensity for violence toward spouses and children, for example.

I don't feel a lot of fear coming from the left about guns. It's the right that appears threatened constantly even when 75% of all gun owners are conservative. The right to own a firearm is in no way threatened.

The problem isn't even party politics, IMO. It's the misuse of media. Us versus them mentality.

We're all in the same boat as American citizens. Government isn't the problem. People are the problem. People who only care about "their side" of an argument.

Just my opinion, not worth much but it's all I have.

Dear Dhara and BULLDOG I think you both are trying and able to see both sides.
What you seem to dismiss is underestimating the real effect of these fears on govt and public relations.

A. Dhara you say you don't see a lot of fear coming from the left about guns.
But every time there is an incident, the rhetoric moves toward gun control.
Obama made statements, the politicians on the left use this for soliciting votes and campaign dollars.
Just like the rightwing uses abortion and the prolife issue to get votes and dollars without doing anything real.

The left pimps this fear of gun violence just as much.
How can you dismiss the fears that are exploited and hyped on both sides?

I think you DO see how this issue is blown up in the media for political gain.
What I don't think you see is how both the left and right do this,
same with the abortion issue. They don't solve it, they just pimp it for political hype to sway the masses.

B. BULLDOG I am also guessing that you are trying to make the distinction
between the real principle in practice and the way the issue is blown out of proportion in the media,
"playing on fears".

I think your approach of addressing both levels is needed and can be very effective
since you actually exercise your gun rights responsibly, and don't see it as any big deal to you.

However, trying to tell people their fears aren't real or have substance only pours fuel on that fire.
That is their worst fear, that people will play down and trust govt, so much, that they give up rights
until it's too late. So you play RIGHT INTO those fears the more you try to play them down as overboard.

I don't think that part of your approach is effective, but has the very opposite effect you intend.
I think you can be a valuable ally to both sides, but emphasizing the reality of both sides,
and pushing solutions that satisfy BOTH -- ie NOT downplaying either side but backing them both up fully.

You have the ability to do this, since you see both sides.
Instead of appearing to take sides and downplaying one,
I am confident you would succeed in your message by supporting both sides equally in working this out,
treating both views as equally valid and important to address. Otherwise it just multiplies fear on both sides.

I can see what you are both trying to say
so thanks for that: Dhara and BULLDOG

I'm not saying the gun nut's fears aren't real. I'm just saying they are unfounded and nuts. The right, under control of the NRA are constantly stoking those unfounded fears, and causing the nuts to behave like.......well.......nuts. Nobody needs to be armed to watch their kids play T-ball, or to buy laundry detergent at Walmart.

It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

You are right that no one needs a gun to buy detergent at Walmart until they are mugged on their way back to their car. No one need to be armed while watching their kids play T-ball until someone tries to grab the child off the playground.

Being armed is being prepared. We don't live in Mayberry or the 1950's when you could leave your doors unlocked and keys in your car and not worry about the safety of you and your family.

Actually, I live in a place where I do not worry about security or safety. I wouldn't want a gun in my house. Being armed is unnecessary.

Doesn't hurt to have one if you know how to use it. The idiots who think they need to prance around with one in public are the problem.