Gun control can't work.

JFK_USA

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It would be impossible for the left wing loonies to abolish guns/ weapons/ arms in this country.
Which left wing loonies want to make any sale and possession of firearms illegal in this country? That looks like a strawman.
No kidding. Wanting a ban on high capacity magazine and assault weapons is somehow taken as we want to eliminate all guns.

Sure the world would be a better place without guns but thats unrealistic. But apparently someones right to own an assault weapon is more important than someone's right to live.
 
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yota5

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Those of you on the loony tunes left haven't got a clear picture of what is happening here. Today there are over 32,000 gun laws on the books. They are only enforced in regards to law abiding gun owners. I had to take classes, and submit to a back ground check in order to be able to carry. My weapons are kept locked in a safe which is bolted to the floor. I've taught my children firearms safety. They are competent gun owners too. Criminals, don't do these things. They don't care about the law. Their guns are obtained illegally. Our borders are not secure so the illegal gun trade will continue to flourish. The government, and law enforcement doesn't have any control over these people. Pass 32,000 more gun control laws, and ban the manufacture of firearms the results will be the same. Criminals will still have guns. Don't forget the cottage firearms manufacturing industry. Law abiding Americans will still have guns. The government will still not be in control. The mob will take control, and make a lot of money. That sounds like what happened during prohibition doesn't it?

Gun Laws, Culture, Justice & Crime In Foreign Countries


Do other countries all have more restrictive gun laws and lower violent crime rates than the U.S.? How do U.S. and other countries` crime trends compare? What societal factors affect crime rates?
NRA-ILA :: Gun Laws, Culture, Justice & Crime In Foreign Countries

Gun Control” Doesn’t Work

Studies by or for Congress, the Department of Justice, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that “gun control” reduces crime, suicides or accidents in the U.S. or abroad.
NRA-ILA :: Firearm Fact Card 2010
 

Mini 14

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It would be impossible for the left wing loonies to abolish guns/ weapons/ arms in this country.
Which left wing loonies want to make any sale and possession of firearms illegal in this country? That looks like a strawman.
No kidding. Wanting a ban on high capacity magazine and assault weapons is somehow taken as we want to eliminate all guns.

Sure the world would be a better place without guns but thats unrealistic. But apparently someones right to own an assault weapon is more important than someone's right to live.
Let me publicly thank you for calling for the ban of high-cap mags.

I've sold a shitload of them in the past few weeks, and got in before the shortages we're seeing now. Where 30 round AR mags were once an afterthought on each order, they now are "ship them if you got them" and our markup on them is far better than firearms.

It sucks that the buying frenzy has depleated the supply, but I' am assured the manufacturers are turning them out as fast as they can, and we'll be back in stock ASAP. Wouldn't have been possible without your lunatic fear from the left, so on behalf of the Gun Dealers of America, Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
 
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bigrebnc1775

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Do ya suppose those back yard gunsmiths could make enough semi-automatic pistols equipped with high capacity clips to meet the demand of the gang bangers and drug dealers?

Gun control efforts aren't to take away rifles and shotguns and collector's pieces. They are to rid our streets and neighborhoods of the vicious violence wrought by lunatics who think a semi-automatic Glock 9mm makes them the king of the street.
Let me explain it to you in simple terms. No one is taking my MAGAZINES or guns away from me. I swear this on my life.
 

bigrebnc1775

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Mini 14

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Someone makes an 80 round drum. Can you imagine carrying 4 boxes of 12 gauge plus the weight of the gun? Hell.,...I'd be pulling the trigger as fast as I could just to get the damn thing to lighten up!

We've sold a boatload of the Saigas lately. Bad-ass gun. We keep one with a 10 round mag as one of our counter guns in every store. Gotta shoot high brass through some of them though....I've had a few come back where they tried to go with the cheaper ammo, and it just won't throw them out every time. It is a FAST action.
 

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It would be impossible for the left wing loonies to abolish guns/ weapons/ arms in this country.
Which left wing loonies want to make any sale and possession of firearms illegal in this country? That looks like a strawman.
The Obama. "Assault weapons".
California. 50BMG rifles, 'assault weapons' (both already banned)
The City of Cleveland. "Assauilt weapons' (was banned, overturned, appealing)
The list is long...
 

M14 Shooter

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Do ya suppose those back yard gunsmiths could make enough semi-automatic pistols equipped with high capacity clips to meet the demand of the gang bangers and drug dealers?
Do you suppose you could explain how this is relevant to the point he made?

They are to rid our streets and neighborhoods of the vicious violence wrought by lunatics who think a semi-automatic Glock 9mm makes them the king of the street.
Making it harder for law-abiding citizens to get a gun will not accomplish this.
 

M14 Shooter

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First, restrict the gun manufacturers, importers and merchandisers by banning the manufacture, sale, importation and distribution of handguns with semi or fully automatic firing systems.
This violates the 2nd amendment.

Next, the ammunition for these weapons similarly must be stopped.
See above.
 

M14 Shooter

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Good point. What might work to regulate firearms when it concerns thugs, gangbangers, criminals, etc?
Stronger tracking and registration measures might be a good place to start.
Gun registration violates the Constitution.
It is a precondition placed on the exercise of the right not inherent to same, and is not pursuant to a compelling state interest.
 

emilynghiem

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Dear yota: Any regulations would have to be Constitutional. The Second Amendment refers to a "well-regulated" militia. So what are the normal regulations?

Look what training and Constitutional oaths the military and police are ALREADY required to go through in the use of firearms for defense and security. Just require citizens to go through the same thing that our police/military already are required to do. If more citizens took the same oath and training as police, we'd have more security and less crime.
Here's an example of police mission statement calling all citizens to be involved:
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

And I would add that any persons who ABUSE firearms to commit premeditated crimes should forfeit their citizenship. Have citizens sign agreements by local ordinances that in order to live in that district, they agree to these rules on bearing arms for defense only.

P.S. I am a progressive Democrat who leans liberal. But because I put the Constitution first, before personal preferences or party, I align on a lot of issues with both liberal Democrats as well as conservative Republicans, and Greens and libertarians as well.
I believe in isonomy or equal responsibility for interpreting and enforcing laws by consensus, especially policies involving religious beliefs requiring consent of the governed.
ethics-commission.net

It would be impossible for the left wing loonies to abolish guns/ weapons/ arms in this country. The 18th amendment tried this with alcohol. They only succeeded in giving organized crime a very lucrative opportunity. The Mafia, and the Kennedy family still remembers this fiasco with great fondness.

Those of us who are avid shooters know that there is a wealth of both professional, and amateur gunsmiths in this country. Take their livelihood away, and an instant cottage industry would be created. I'll bet that you're asking yourself what good a bunch of guys could do in the basement or their barn.

The answer. They would make some beautiful well crafted firearms. Do you think that isn't possible? At the turn of the century there was a group of wildcatters/ amateur gunsmiths who made target grade home made fire arms that were extremely accurate, and are still coveted by collectors today. They used automobile axles, laths, and milling machines to accomplish this.

Then we have the hand loaders. We re manufacture the ammo for our rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I have one load for a Remington 40XB Heavy varmint .222, that will put 5 shots into a .225 inch group at 100 yards.

Any attempt to abolish firearms would just drive gun manufacture, and ownership under ground. Just like the sale, and brewing alcohol was driven under ground by the 18th amendment. Should that happen the feds wouldn't have any control, and the amount of firearms available on our streets would increase dramatically . The mob would make tons of money, and liberals would remain stuck on stupid.

Have you ever noticed what a big charlie foxtrot is created when ever liberals get caught up in things that they don't know anything about?
 

bigrebnc1775

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Good point. What might work to regulate firearms when it concerns thugs, gangbangers, criminals, etc?
Stronger tracking and registration measures might be a good place to start.
Gun registration violates the Constitution.
It is a precondition placed on the exercise of the right not inherent to same, and is not pursuant to a compelling state interest.
Wouldn't you also agree that the NFA is also unconstitutional?
 

johnrocks

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It would be impossible for the left wing loonies to abolish guns/ weapons/ arms in this country.
Which left wing loonies want to make any sale and possession of firearms illegal in this country? That looks like a strawman.
No kidding. Wanting a ban on high capacity magazine and assault weapons is somehow taken as we want to eliminate all guns.

Sure the world would be a better place without guns but thats unrealistic. But apparently someones right to own an assault weapon is more important than someone's right to live.
I would think that if anyone could see the failures in gun control/prohibition/drug control and how they all come from the same miserably planned and failed playbook, it would be someone with a "Legalize Marijuana" avatar (which I support also)
 

The Rabbi

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[Here's a good way to stop. First, restrict the gun manufacturers, importers and merchandisers by banning the manufacture, sale, importation and distribution of handguns with semi or fully automatic firing systems. Next, the ammunition for these weapons similarly must be stopped.

At least stem the tide. Whenever such weapons are used in a crime, they should be smelted down and turned into manhole covers.

After a few years of no new guns and no ammunition, the violent assholes who find such weapons appealing and a worthy substitute for their manly shortcomings will have to resort to knife fights again. At least we never heard of a drive by knifing. No one can attempt to assassinate someone with a knife and kill nine innocent people by collateral knife thrusts.
Wow, clueless much?
Start about 2:50. Guns are so easy to make anyone with high school shop experience could do it.
Ammo is easily reloaded. There are hundreds of millions of guns already in circulation. They last about a lifetime or two.
And knife attacks do happen.
 
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M14 Shooter

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Just require citizens to go through the same thing that our police/military already are required to do.
Requiring anyone take and pass a class and/or show any degree of relevant ability in order for them to exercise any of their rights violates the Constitution.

And I would add that any persons who ABUSE firearms to commit premeditated crimes should forfeit their citizenship.
While a novel idea, there is no constitutional mechanism for such a thing.
 

M14 Shooter

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emilynghiem

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Just require citizens to go through the same thing that our police/military already are required to do.
Requiring anyone take and pass a class and/or show any degree of relevant ability in order for them to exercise any of their rights violates the Constitution.

And I would add that any persons who ABUSE firearms to commit premeditated crimes should forfeit their citizenship.
While a novel idea, there is no constitutional mechanism for such a thing.
Dear M14 Shooter: What I notice about most lawabiding gun owners who invoke the right to bear arms is that they do respect and enforce the Constitution THEMSELVES. They CHOOSE to follow the Constitution freely, it is not imposed by outside authority, but self-imposed or enforced like taking a vow you already believe in. To agree to do this is what separates the lawabiding enforcers and defenders of law from the criminal intent to evade or break the law, not to defend it. So that separates who is defending and who has ill or criminal intent.

Since the decision or policy to regulate cannot be imposed by government it must be freely chosen and consented to by the people (same as the policy onrevoking citizenship, it would have to be done locally by restricting residency per district by democratically passed ordinances by the people te property owners or residents probably by consensus and not imposed by outside authority, s uch as conditions on homeowner association rules etc.)

So people in a district who have beliefs or differences concerning the use of firearms for defense only are FREE to assembly ,to write up an ordinance or pass a local city code where neighborhoods can opt in by consensus, and all residents agree to sign such a statement that the right to bear arms is for hte purpose of defending Constitutional laws and not to violate any citizens rights or freedoms, and if they were to commit a premeditated crime using a firearm, they agree to either forfeit their right to live there, or agree to resolve the conflict by consensus with the parties and be responsible for damages incurred and restitution. And if all residents vote this in then any residents who don't agree to sign it can be asked to leave or resolve the conflict. This ould apply to marijuana laws or prostitution, any law where there are different iterpretations or religious beliefs in order to have a local consensus instead of asking govt to step in and impose a ruling that favors one side over the other.

M, if people AGREE to a policy, tha tis like religious freedom. You have the right to follow it, this is protected under the Constitution under religious freedom and rights reserved to the people or the states. Only if you abuse govt power to impose legislation that vioaltes the right or consent of others is that unconstitutional because it does not protect people's interests equally without discrimination or without religious bias. So if everyone consent to a law it is lawful like religion to follow and enforce by consent of all people affected in that district.

good example: the Jehovah's Witness have their own self-enforced self-imposed standards of conduct and disfellowshipping people who refuse to correct violations or abuses
bad example: the State of Arizona got sued over their immigration bill because it wasn't passed by consent of all people affected and contained flaws that could have been corrected by mediating and resolving these conflicts in advance but it can still be amended and made to work
 
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RetiredGySgt

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There's a difference between control and prohibition. Alcohol prohibition did not work, and neither would gun prohibition. But alcohol remains well regulated, and so too can guns.
Good point. What might work to regulate firearms when it concerns thugs, gangbangers, criminals, etc?
Eliminate their weapons of choice. Semi automatic concealable guns with high capacity clips.

I have no problem with hunters and sportsmen. I don't know any of them who use semi automatic weapons to hunt with. But semi automatic weapons with high capacity clips belong in well regulated militias, not on the streets.
YOU did not think out your response. Even if by magic we could eliminate every hand gun you want removed tomorrow, criminals would just use what else was available. Including shotguns and rifles.
 

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