"Gun Appreciation Day" Didn't Work Out So Well,..

[bripat9643]

That may very well be true in cities like Chicago, Detroit, New York, or any other city that has strict gun control laws.

No, all of those stats are true of the entire US.

As you can see from the chart I just posted - countries with strict gun control laws have much, much better records on homicide than the US does.

Why don't you post a chart of murder rates, not just "gun related murder rates."

 

[MeBelle]

That may very well be true in cities like Chicago, Detroit, New York, or any other city that has strict gun control laws.

No, all of those stats are true of the entire US.

As you can see from the chart I just posted - countries with strict gun control laws have much, much better records on homicide than the US does.

You need to take a close look at the links from the article your chart comes from.

Ten year old data, for one.

 

[Saigon]

I guarantee the ones with the strictest gun control will have a higher rate of gun violence. That's what you need to look at.

And yet we know that the opposite is true of countries. How do you explain this?

 

[Saigon]

Why don't you post a chart of murder rates, not just "gun related murder rates."

Because this is discussion is about gun laws - and the fact that we KNOW that countries with stricter gun control laws have far, far lower rates of gun-related deaths is the point under discussion here.

Total murder rate starts are widely available - you will note that the US has a higher total homicide rate than any other major developed country.

 

[bayoubill]

The far right gun nuts thought a "gun appreciation day" would be a good idea to "stick it to Obama and da libs" though it backfired on them big time, literally.

Six different people were shot during the right winger's gun spank fest.

Keep it going GOP! 2014 keeps looking better and better!

"Gun activists designated last Saturday “Gun Appreciation Day” in an attempt to highlight their opposition to gun safety laws. The PR stunt proved to be more of an embarrassment, however, when 5 people were shot at 3 different gun shows on Gun Appreciation Day.
On Friday afternoon, an Iowa gun dealer closed out the week by becoming the sixth person shot at a gun show. The man claims he was “showing off a .25 caliber pistol he thought was unloaded when he slid the action of the gun.” The gun was not unloaded, and a bullet went through his left palm."

For The Sixth Time In One Week, Man Shot At Gun Show | ThinkProgress

keep it up, home boy...

I 'memba sevaral times over the past 40-some years when folks on your side got cocky...

only to have their asses handed to 'em on a silver platter in the next-most elections...

 

[Saigon]

In the US, 87 people die every day of gun shot wounds.

I fact that is totally meaningless in the absence of any other relevant criteria.

I doubt the 87 people who die today would agree with you.

The point again being that this rate in the US is around 20 times higher than in any other major developed economy, whre gun control laws are based on safety.

This is not opinion, and not a theory. It is a simple, clear indisputable fact.

 

[bayoubill]

In the US, 87 people die every day of gun shot wounds.

I fact that is totally meaningless in the absence of any other relevant criteria.

I doubt the 87 people who die today would agree with you.

The point again being that this rate is around 20 times higher than in any other major developed economy, whre gun control laws are based on safety.

This is not opinion, and not a theory. It is a simple, clear indisputable fact.

you're new to me, Saigon...

so I hope you'll bear with me when I ask what you would propose to do to fix things, vis a vis bad things done with guns...

 

[Saigon]

Bayoubill -

Let me start by saying that I have no problem at all with people owning guns. I don't own a gun myself, but I have a few friends who hunt or live on farms (with livestock) and I don't see any reason why they should not keep guns at home.

What I'd like to see both in Finland and in the US is a ban on military-style semi-automatic weapons, and I'd like to see much tighter controls over who can get a gun. In Finland we are implementing a system whereby all new gun owners will be required to complete a gun-safety course and undergo a brief psychological evaluation - that sounds good to me.

Finland has very high levels of gun ownership - and a very high gun-related homicide rate. We also have a real problem with school shootings.

 

[bripat9643]

Why don't you post a chart of murder rates, not just "gun related murder rates."

Because this is discussion is about gun laws - and the fact that we KNOW that countries with stricter gun control laws have far, far lower rates of gun-related deaths is the point under discussion here.

Total murder rate starts are widely available - you will note that the US has a higher total homicide rate than any other major developed country.

ROFL! Sorry, but if the murder rate is higher despite laws against guns, then your theory about the efficacy of such laws is total bullshit.

Brazil has 5 times the murder rate of the USA, yet it has much more restrictive gun control laws. A long list of other such examples could easily be provided.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

It isn't a theory.

The chart linked earlier compares 20 or so developed economies that the US could sensibly be compared to.

The results are obvious.

Countries such as the UK, Germany and France (that all have safety-based gun laws) all have much lower total homicide rates than the US.

 

[Saigon]

Western democracies ranked by total homicide rate:

USA 4.8


South Korea 2.6

Lux. 2.5

Finland 2.2

Canada 1.6

UK 1.2

France 1.1

Australia 1.0

Germany 0.8

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So as we can see, countries with low gun-related homicides also tend to have low total homcide rates.

 

[bripat9643]

Bripat -

It isn't a theory.

The chart linked earlier compares 20 or so developed economies that the US could sensibly be compared to.

The results are obvious.

Countries such as the UK, Germany and France (that all have safety-based gun laws) all have much lower total homicide rates than the US.

Yes, it is a theory. You cherry picked the countries that have "lower GUN crime," and ignored the countries that have a much higher murder rate. If you ignore murders committed by blacks and Hispanics, then the U.S. would have a lower murder rate than most of the countries you list. It appears, according to your logic, that black people and Hispanics are the main cause of murder.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

The chart shows large developed western countries, because the US is a large, developed western country.

That is not cherry picking - it's common sense.

 

[bripat9643]

Western democracies ranked by total homicide rate:

USA 4.8


South Korea 2.6

Lux. 2.5

Finland 2.2

Canada 1.6

UK 1.2

France 1.1

Australia 1.0

Germany 0.8

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So as we can see, countries with low gun-related homicides also tend to have low total homcide rates.

Since when is South Korea a "Western democracy?"

Russia 10.2

Lithuania 6.6

Estonia 5.2

Greenland 19.2

Notice that Switzerland, a country were every adult male is required to be armed with a fully automatic weapon, has a rate of 0.7.

South Africa 31.8

Brazil 21.0

Mexico 22.7

Venezuela 45.0

Bahamas 27.4

 

[bripat9643]

Bripat -

The chart shows large developed western countries, because the US is a large, developed western country.

That is not cherry picking - it's common sense.

No, it's cherry picking. The countries listed are predominately white. So all you've shown is that white people don't commit murder as often as black or brown people. Furthermore, South Korea is not a "Western" democracy.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

If you really, honestly believe that it makes more sense to compare the US with Jamaica, Venezuela or Zimbabwe than it does with Germany, France, Canada, Sth Korea or the UK, then go with that.

Somehow I doubt you'll get many takers.

 

[Dragonlady]

Canada has very strict gun control laws. There is no such thing as a conceal and carry permit in Canada for handguns. Members of gun clubs are permitted to own pistols but must keep the gun and ammunition in a locked box for transportion and storage at home.

Our murder rate is one third of that of the US, and it would be a lot lower if criminals weren't able to smuggle guns across the border so easily. In Canada, only the criminals have guns and yet both our crime rate and our murder rate is substantially lower than the US.

Not that our Have Gun Will Travel buddy or the rest of the "Obama wants to take our guns" crowd would ever have the good sense to admit to any of it.


If private gun ownership makes everyone so safe, why are so many people shot in the US every day? Why does the US have the highest rate of crime and incarceration in the first world?

Gun nuts tie themselves in knots trying to justify this obsession with private gun ownership and they're always in fear that someone will take away their precious weapons. Getting rid of guns in the US is impossible, not because of the second amendment, but because there are so many of them it would be like trying to erradicate dandelions in summer. The fact that no one is even suggesting banning guns, or seizing guns doesn't stop the gun nuts from running about like Chicken Little screaming "Obama wants to take your guns". Of course keeping their membership in a fever pitch is what keeps those donations and NRA memberships pouring in.

 

[JoeB131]

The far right gun nuts thought a "gun appreciation day" would be a good idea to "stick it to Obama and da libs" though it backfired on them big time, literally.

Six different people were shot during the right winger's gun spank fest.

Keep it going GOP! 2014 keeps looking better and better!

"Gun activists designated last Saturday “Gun Appreciation Day” in an attempt to highlight their opposition to gun safety laws. The PR stunt proved to be more of an embarrassment, however, when 5 people were shot at 3 different gun shows on Gun Appreciation Day.
On Friday afternoon, an Iowa gun dealer closed out the week by becoming the sixth person shot at a gun show. The man claims he was “showing off a .25 caliber pistol he thought was unloaded when he slid the action of the gun.” The gun was not unloaded, and a bullet went through his left palm."

So 6 incidents out of how many people, and out of how many gun shows?

The fact that they were VERY crowded, is of course the real indication of people's feelings on this. And of course you left that fact out because it doesnt back your message.

Hack.

Who cares how many people.

I think that this shows the folly of 2nd Amendment fanatics. If you know so little about gun safety that you can't even get together in a group without there being major injuries, you probably have expanded the privilage too far.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The far right gun nuts thought a "gun appreciation day" would be a good idea to "stick it to Obama and da libs" though it backfired on them big time, literally.

Six different people were shot during the right winger's gun spank fest.

Keep it going GOP! 2014 keeps looking better and better!

"Gun activists designated last Saturday “Gun Appreciation Day” in an attempt to highlight their opposition to gun safety laws. The PR stunt proved to be more of an embarrassment, however, when 5 people were shot at 3 different gun shows on Gun Appreciation Day.
On Friday afternoon, an Iowa gun dealer closed out the week by becoming the sixth person shot at a gun show. The man claims he was “showing off a .25 caliber pistol he thought was unloaded when he slid the action of the gun.” The gun was not unloaded, and a bullet went through his left palm."

So 6 incidents out of how many people, and out of how many gun shows?

The fact that they were VERY crowded, is of course the real indication of people's feelings on this. And of course you left that fact out because it doesnt back your message.

Hack.

Who cares how many people.

I think that this shows the folly of 2nd Amendment fanatics. If you know so little about gun safety that you can't even get together in a group without there being major injuries, you probably have expanded the privilage too far.

There are more shootings and deaths in gun free zone's than there have been at gun shows.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Canada has very strict gun control laws. There is no such thing as a conceal and carry permit in Canada for handguns. Members of gun clubs are permitted to own pistols but must keep the gun and ammunition in a locked box for transportion and storage at home.

Our murder rate is one third of that of the US, and it would be a lot lower if criminals weren't able to smuggle guns across the border so easily. In Canada, only the criminals have guns and yet both our crime rate and our murder rate is substantially lower than the US.

Not that our Have Gun Will Travel buddy or the rest of the "Obama wants to take our guns" crowd would ever have the good sense to admit to any of it.


If private gun ownership makes everyone so safe, why are so many people shot in the US every day? Why does the US have the highest rate of crime and incarceration in the first world?

Gun nuts tie themselves in knots trying to justify this obsession with private gun ownership and they're always in fear that someone will take away their precious weapons. Getting rid of guns in the US is impossible, not because of the second amendment, but because there are so many of them it would be like trying to erradicate dandelions in summer. The fact that no one is even suggesting banning guns, or seizing guns doesn't stop the gun nuts from running about like Chicken Little screaming "Obama wants to take your guns". Of course keeping their membership in a fever pitch is what keeps those donations and NRA memberships pouring in.

Canada also doesn't have a right to keep and bear arms.