Guess the breed of my dog?

[frigidweirdo]

Also you say roma must change and they have to prove they are not criminals, why i have to prove im not a criminal, in which way i must change? That is the question in which way the majority of law abiding roma must change? Also there are no german nazis anymore? Did germans after the war really changed, they acknowledged the genocide against roma only in 1990 i think, not before that, they said it was only to fight crime and the roma were guilty themselfes. Did all the nazis changed suddenly after the war or you changed your opinion about them? What if roma change, but you dont change your opinion of them?

You're asking questions to things that aren't issues. I assume you don't travel around and live the traditional Gypsy lifestyle. I doubt anyone would discriminate against you for being a Gypsy unless you told them you are a Gypsy. I don't know what your experiences are, you live in Austria, a strange country, very, VERY right wing with little pockets of left wing in Graz and Wien.

Yes, the Germans in West Germany did change a lot. Look at the difference between voting in the former East Germany when it comes to far right parties. The NDP does much, much better in the former East Germany. Austria too, Jorg Haider was popular in Kaernten.
But West Germany had much less racism, much less such problems, and still does.

 

[DudleySmith]

Britain and France go to war following the US, hiding behind US protection, hiding behind the evil of the US war machine. It's something else, just as bad, but something else.

Yeah, cuz the rest of the planet are all just hapless hippies n stuff, and only the U.S. are 'warmongers', cuz some commie faggots say so.

 

[Mortimer]

No, I didn't say it was okay to say that at all.

I said that Gypsies could change how they're seen.
Do I discriminate against Gypsies? No, I don't. I've lived in places with lots of Gypsies and I still didn't discriminate, even when those Gypsies would have discriminated against me.

You can get all angry at me, it doesn't change anything.

What if many gypsies really change but dont get the media coverage? What if people do not change their prejudice against gypsies? Or their opinions? I made a video about gypsies in the media, and i have examples of famous gypsies who never made it into media coverage, but criminal gangs are always in media. I think it goes both ways, gypsies can change, and others can also change how they view gypsies, only one must change is wrong. I do not support criminal gypsies either ways. It started with his joke, and i called his joke racist, which it was, i forgave him that joke, after he said it was a joke, but it was a racist joke, you came here saying it was not a racist joke and it is ok to say such things to gypsies, or to any random gypsy like myself. And he didnt said i am, but he said my dog, but why would my dog be a gypsy ? Because Im a Gypsy? Like if Im a Serb or German my dog is probably a Serb or German when he says it.

 

[Mortimer]

You're asking questions to things that aren't issues. I assume you don't travel around and live the traditional Gypsy lifestyle. I doubt anyone would discriminate against you for being a Gypsy unless you told them you are a Gypsy. I don't know what your experiences are, you live in Austria, a strange country, very, VERY right wing with little pockets of left wing in Graz and Wien.

Yes, the Germans in West Germany did change a lot. Look at the difference between voting in the former East Germany when it comes to far right parties. The NDP does much, much better in the former East Germany. Austria too, Jorg Haider was popular in Kaernten.
But West Germany had much less racism, much less such problems, and still does.

You and Bulldog discriminate against me right? You also discriminate against me because im from serbia, you did say so that you discriminate not because im a gypsy but because im from serbia, why do you think it is ok to discriminate serbs?

 

[Mortimer]

Is it?
I marched with the Kosovan Albanians in Pristina when it was officially still a part of Serbia. The Serbs caused war in the 1990s, they're pushing towards war in Kosovo right now, why? NUMBER PLATES of the stupid things to get angry about.
The Russians, well....
Who else has started a war since 1945 in Europe against their neighbor.... that'd be.... nobody.
Yes, I know about Britain and the US and France also going to war, that's the reason I put the thing about "neighbors" in there. I'm not excusing the British or the French here, but why do you think that the only two countries that have gone to war against the neighbors, are two Slavic countries that are best buddies? It's a mentality.

Britain and France go to war following the US, hiding behind US protection, hiding behind the evil of the US war machine. It's something else, just as bad, but something else.

It takes two to tango. If Serbs have a war with their neighbour their neighbour also has a war with serbs. You are one sided, and the serbs in kosovo are discriminated, and beaten by special police forces, arrested etc. It is not serbia who wants war.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What if many gypsies really change but dont get the media coverage? What if people do not change their prejudice against gypsies? Or their opinions? I made a video about gypsies in the media, and i have examples of famous gypsies who never made it into media coverage, but criminal gangs are always in media. I think it goes both ways, gypsies can change, and others can also change how they view gypsies, only one must change is wrong. I do not support criminal gypsies either ways. It started with his joke, and i called his joke racist, which it was, i forgave him that joke, after he said it was a joke, but it was a racist joke, you came here saying it was not a racist joke and it is ok to say such things to gypsies, or to any random gypsy like myself. And he didnt said i am, but he said my dog, but why would my dog be a gypsy ? Because Im a Gypsy? Like if Im a Serb or German my dog is probably a Serb or German when he says it.

Well, there are two ways to look at this.
Either you're an individual, or you're a Gypsy.

You seem to want the best of both worlds. You want to be an individual when people talk about the negative of Gypsies, but you want to be a Gypsy when they talk about the positive.

It's really your choice. Be an individual, don't tell people you're a Gypsy, live a "normal" life, and get on with it. People probably won't care about you any more or less than any other person.

Or be a Gypsy, and get the positive and negative of being a Gypsy

 

[frigidweirdo]

You and Bulldog discriminate against me right? You also discriminate against me because im from serbia, you did say so that you discriminate not because im a gypsy but because im from serbia, why do you think it is ok to discriminate serbs?

I don't really discriminate against anyone. Have I insulted you? Have I treated you badly in this thread? No.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It takes two to tango. If Serbs have a war with their neighbour their neighbour also has a war with serbs. You are one sided, and the serbs in kosovo are discriminated, and beaten by special police forces, arrested etc. It is not serbia who wants war.

There's a difference between starting a war, and being forced into a war.

Am I one sided? Is it one sided to see that the Serbs started the wars in Kosovo, Bosnia, Croatia?
Yes, I'm sure the Serbs in Kosovo are discriminated again to a certain extent. They certainly don't make things easy for themselves.

However it was the Serbs in Kosovo who were pushing for war, over number plates. They live in Kosovo, they should have Kosovo number plates, not Serbian number plates. You want Serbian number plates, GO LIVE IN SERBIA.

 

[Mortimer]

Well, there are two ways to look at this.
Either you're an individual, or you're a Gypsy.

You seem to want the best of both worlds. You want to be an individual when people talk about the negative of Gypsies, but you want to be a Gypsy when they talk about the positive.

It's really your choice. Be an individual, don't tell people you're a Gypsy, live a "normal" life, and get on with it. People probably won't care about you any more or less than any other person.

Or be a Gypsy, and get the positive and negative of being a Gypsy

Why should I not tell people Im a Gypsy. Do you tell you are british? Or whatever you are? What if they ask you what you are? People all the time ask me where im from and what i am, that is also discrimination and persecution that i have to tell im something and lie about it, that is not ok either.

 

[Mortimer]

There's a difference between starting a war, and being forced into a war.

Am I one sided? Is it one sided to see that the Serbs started the wars in Kosovo, Bosnia, Croatia?
Yes, I'm sure the Serbs in Kosovo are discriminated again to a certain extent. They certainly don't make things easy for themselves.

However it was the Serbs in Kosovo who were pushing for war, over number plates. They live in Kosovo, they should have Kosovo number plates, not Serbian number plates. You want Serbian number plates, GO LIVE IN SERBIA.

I think you are one sided, because you say serbs one sidedly started the wars, when it was a development of things during the break up of Yugoslavia. Also maybe the Albanians "started" the war in Kosovo? As far as I know in 99 they started by killing police men, and starting with guerilla warfare. Or not? Similar to the IRA in Northern Ireland. The UCK started with war against the Serbian police, against the Serbs.

Also Serbia doesnt recognise Kosovo as independent state, i dont see why serbs should flee their homes from kosovo, they have a right to self-determination i think it is even in one agreement between serbia and kosovo albanians that the serbs have self-autonomy. The albanians dont adhere to that agreement and started arresting serbs, beating some of them etc. Also the albanians pushed that war over number plates, because they decided serbs can no longer have serbian number plates and wanted to force them.

 

[Mortimer]

I don't really discriminate against anyone. Have I insulted you? Have I treated you badly in this thread? No.

Yes you discriminate roma, you say i should face consequences for being a gypsy and should not tell someone im a gypsy. Do you say the same to a polish or nigerian guy?

 

[Mortimer]

Well, there are two ways to look at this.
Either you're an individual, or you're a Gypsy.

You seem to want the best of both worlds. You want to be an individual when people talk about the negative of Gypsies, but you want to be a Gypsy when they talk about the positive.

It's really your choice. Be an individual, don't tell people you're a Gypsy, live a "normal" life, and get on with it. People probably won't care about you any more or less than any other person.

Or be a Gypsy, and get the positive and negative of being a Gypsy

People also know Im a Gypsy even if i do not tell them, because im roma and we are different then your travellers who are just irish, and no one recognises them, people recognise our look and they know who i am even if i dont tell them. Also it is in my genetic fingerprint, and in my genealogical records, why should i be scared if someone will know im a gypsy or find out? Why should i not tell i am, do you say you are welsh or scottish or white british?

 

[Likkmee]

People also know Im a Gypsy even if i do not tell them, because im roma and we are different then your travellers who are just irish, and no one recognises them, people recognise our look and they know who i am even if i dont tell them. Also it is in my genetic fingerprint, and in my genealogical records, why should i be scared if someone will know im a gypsy or find out? Why should i not tell i am, do you say you are welsh or scottish or white british?

Tell them you're a Turk.
If they ask " from what part ? " Reply: Butterkugel

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why should I not tell people Im a Gypsy. Do you tell you are british? Or whatever you are? What if they ask you what you are? People all the time ask me where im from and what i am, that is also discrimination and persecution that i have to tell im something and lie about it, that is not ok either.

Why should you, why shouldn't you? That's the question isn't it? I you do one, you get one consequence, you do another you get another consequence. You have to make that decision, right?
You're talking about being an individual, without the baggage of being a Gypsy. You're talking about being proud to be a Gypsy. Which is more important for you?

For my part, I'm not a nationalist. I'm not an emotional person. I don't connect with people from my country. When I was a kid I went to watch a sporting event and I thought that I should be connecting with these people. But I didn't like them.

I've learned to be me, to do things my way. To criticize my own government, my own country as much as any other government and country.

You can lie, you can tell them "I'm a Gypsy, but...." you can choose many different ways of telling people. I lie all the time. I come on this forum and I don't tell people where I'm from because I don't want to talk about where I'm from because it's not that much a part of who I am.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I think you are one sided, because you say serbs one sidedly started the wars, when it was a development of things during the break up of Yugoslavia. Also maybe the Albanians "started" the war in Kosovo? As far as I know in 99 they started by killing police men, and starting with guerilla warfare. Or not? Similar to the IRA in Northern Ireland. The UCK started with war against the Serbian police, against the Serbs.

Also Serbia doesnt recognise Kosovo as independent state, i dont see why serbs should flee their homes from kosovo, they have a right to self-determination i think it is even in one agreement between serbia and kosovo albanians that the serbs have self-autonomy. The albanians dont adhere to that agreement and started arresting serbs, beating some of them etc. Also the albanians pushed that war over number plates, because they decided serbs can no longer have serbian number plates and wanted to force them.

You think I'm one sided because you don't know who I am, or how I think. You think I'm "normal". I'm not. Especially for this forum.

I look at situations and I make decisions based on fundamental principles I have. For example I believe that people should have the right of self determination.
Which means what? It means the people of Kosovo should have the right to decide whether to be a part of Serbia, a part of Albania or a separate country. And yes, I think that Serbs in Kosovo should be able to decide to be a part of Serbia or Kosovo, I think the UN messed up there.

Same with Scotland, the Basque Country, Catalonia, etc. I'm not a Nationalist, I think nationalism is silly, however I think people should be able to be emotional. They're free to make their own mistakes.

Who "starts a war" is often complicated. What I know is that the Serbs treated the Kosovan Albanians like dirt. 90% Kosovan Albanian to 10% Serb. And the Serbs demanded that EVERY COMPANY have 50% Serb workers. If that were my country, I'd be taking up arms against the other country. But it also means the SERBS started this. The Serbs had unrealistic policies designed to aggravate and discriminate against the majority population.
Similar to Northern Ireland? Yes, because the British gave jobs to the Protestants over the Catholics, there was always much higher Catholic unemployment until just recently when it's become about equal now.

Serbia doesn't recognize Kosovo, doesn't matter. They picked the wrong fight. They lost. Tough.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes you discriminate roma, you say i should face consequences for being a gypsy and should not tell someone im a gypsy. Do you say the same to a polish or nigerian guy?

Yes, I say this about EVERYONE

 

[Mortimer]

Why should you, why shouldn't you? That's the question isn't it? I you do one, you get one consequence, you do another you get another consequence. You have to make that decision, right?
You're talking about being an individual, without the baggage of being a Gypsy. You're talking about being proud to be a Gypsy. Which is more important for you?

For my part, I'm not a nationalist. I'm not an emotional person. I don't connect with people from my country. When I was a kid I went to watch a sporting event and I thought that I should be connecting with these people. But I didn't like them.

I've learned to be me, to do things my way. To criticize my own government, my own country as much as any other government and country.

You can lie, you can tell them "I'm a Gypsy, but...." you can choose many different ways of telling people. I lie all the time. I come on this forum and I don't tell people where I'm from because I don't want to talk about where I'm from because it's not that much a part of who I am.

What if they ask me? That happens alot, do you think I should lie about it or be scared that they will find out? Do you think it wouldnt be more fair and ok if gypsies can be normal people like everyone else? But we have that discussion going on since always. I think everything said in my other post with the video, how many gypsies did changed i also watched a reportage, that 20 years ago 20% of gypsies in my town went to school and now it is 99%, or all gypsies go to school now. Read again my post about gypsies, how they should change, but also how perception of them can be changed by others, and that it goes both ways. Why do you think i should hide that im a gypsy, what if im a politician run for president, i hide im a gypsy and someone finds out and then says "but he is a gypsy" to discredit me, that is the case in many countries, for example there are rumours victor orban is a gypsy, and there are pictures of his mother, grandmother and him young "proving" he is a gypsy, do you think it is ok to use someones ethnicity to discredit him and he has to hide it?

 

[Mortimer]

Tell them you're a Turk.
If they ask " from what part ? " Reply: Butterkugel

I dont have a turkish name nor do i speak turkish. That would be telling me apart. I have to learn turkish, about turkish geography and give myself a turkish name, but why should i have to do all of this? Why I cannot be myself?

 

[frigidweirdo]

What if they ask me? That happens alot, do you think I should lie about it or be scared that they will find out? Do you think it wouldnt be more fair and ok if gypsies can be normal people like everyone else? But we have that discussion going on since always. I think everything said in my other post with the video, how many gypsies did changed i also watched a reportage, that 20 years ago 20% of gypsies in my town went to school and now it is 99%, or all gypsies go to school now. Read again my post about gypsies, how they should change, but also how perception of them can be changed by others, and that it goes both ways. Why do you think i should hide that im a gypsy, what if im a politician run for president, i hide im a gypsy and someone finds out and then says "but he is a gypsy" to discredit me, that is the case in many countries, for example there are rumours victor orban is a gypsy, and there are pictures of his mother, grandmother and him young "proving" he is a gypsy, do you think it is ok to use someones ethnicity to discredit him and he has to hide it?

You can do what you like. The perception of Gypsies will change when Gypsies change. It's inevitable.

 

[Mortimer]

You can do what you like. The perception of Gypsies will change when Gypsies change. It's inevitable.

I replied to that before. And I see it differentiated, I even made a video. I guess we dont need to go in circles.