Guess the breed of my dog?

[frigidweirdo]

I think if you discuss that, or say that like you just did, it is not racist, but what he did was racist. Do you see a difference? Also I do not think there is a higher percentage of gypsies then others who rape women. Do you think so? Rape is not something Gypsies have a bad reputation for.

I don't see the difference. I think a lot of people are uninformed. They have opinions that aren't necessarily racist, they're based on what knowledge they have, some misinformation and come out with a not well thought out opinion.
What happens is people try and scare others into not saying certain things and they use buzz words like "racist" to scare them

 

[skye]

Your dog looks like a Corgi ....he is sweet!


Corgi

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Your dog looks like a Corgi ....he is sweet!


Corgi

Those are the weirdest looking dogs.
The legs dont match their body size.

 

[skye]

Those are the weirdest looking dogs.
The legs dont match their body size.

LOL yes, but they are sweet in a strange way!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

LOL yes, but they are sweet in a strange way!

Knew a guy that had two of em and he took them everywhere he went.
They looked funny as hell chasing each other,the legs were a blur but they barely got up to jogging speed.

 

[Mortimer]

I don't see the difference. I think a lot of people are uninformed. They have opinions that aren't necessarily racist, they're based on what knowledge they have, some misinformation and come out with a not well thought out opinion.
What happens is people try and scare others into not saying certain things and they use buzz words like "racist" to scare them

You dont need to be informed to know that it is racist, it is just common sense. Why would my dog rape a woman and why would my dog even be a gypsy? Because im a gypsy so by extension im a rapist right? He knows me that is enough information, to not be racist. It is also offensive, you can be not racist, but still offensive, or discriminatory, even if you think it is not racist, it is a heavy insult.

 

[The Duke]

German Shepherd and Dachsund mix.

Seems awfully good-natured for that, but that's what it looks like to me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You dont need to be informed to know that it is racist, it is just common sense. Why would my dog rape a woman and why would my dog even be a gypsy? Because im a gypsy so by extension im a rapist right? He knows me that is enough information, to not be racist. It is also offensive, you can be not racist, but still offensive, or discriminatory, even if you think it is not racist, it is a heavy insult.

What is "racism"?

I don't think anyone would come to the conclusion that you've come to. I'm sure 99% of people would see what was written as Gypsies being more likely to do something, rather than all doing something.

Yes, maybe offensive. People get offended by all sorts of things, even if there's truth there. Do Gypsies get offended that people call them thieves? Maybe, does this stop all Gypsies from thieving? No.

Being offended SHOULD work as a way of people telling you something isn't acceptable. In the modern era people shrug it off and turn it around to blame those who are saying something is wrong.

 

[Mortimer]

What is "racism"?

I don't think anyone would come to the conclusion that you've come to. I'm sure 99% of people would see what was written as Gypsies being more likely to do something, rather than all doing something.

Yes, maybe offensive. People get offended by all sorts of things, even if there's truth there. Do Gypsies get offended that people call them thieves? Maybe, does this stop all Gypsies from thieving? No.

Being offended SHOULD work as a way of people telling you something isn't acceptable. In the modern era people shrug it off and turn it around to blame those who are saying something is wrong.

He didnt said Gypsies being more likely to do it but "gypsies do it" "my dog does it" and why my dog? "because me", and it is not even true, child pick pockets for example are characterised of gypsies but most gypsies are not that, still, im sure majority of gypsies are not thieves, and rape is not even part of the equation they are not even known for rape. and also to say to a gypsy "you are a thieve" "you are a rapist" is that correct, even if the guy is not? You say it is ok to call a random gypsy a thieve. "Because Gypsies are more likely to be". Just about everything of that is stupid, silly, racist, and nonsense. If something is stereotypical it still can be a minority who does it. Like it is stereotypical that white americans are massshooters, but most white americans are not, now is it ok to say to a random white american he will shoot up a school "honky" that would be the equivavelent and it would be racist and offensive, and not right.

 

[Mortimer]

Why would even you need to tell me it is not ok to steal or rape and why would you assume i support such things or do it? You say if something is offensive it just means, you correct people, but why would you even need to tell me that or correct me? Or tell me it is wrong? I know it is wrong.

 

[frigidweirdo]

He didnt said Gypsies being more likely to do it but "gypsies do it" "my dog does it" and why my dog? "because me", and it is not even true, child pick pockets for example are characterised of gypsies but most gypsies are not that, still, im sure majority of gypsies are not thieves, and rape is not even part of the equation they are not even known for rape. and also to say to a gypsy "you are a thieve" "you are a rapist" is that correct, even if the guy is not? You say it is ok to call a random gypsy a thieve. "Because Gypsies are more likely to be". Just about everything of that is stupid, silly, racist, and nonsense. If something is stereotypical it still can be a minority who does it. Like it is stereotypical that white americans are massshooters, but most white americans are not, now is it ok to say to a random white american he will shoot up a school "honky" that would be the equivavelent and it would be racist and offensive, and not right.

And yet he said it, and he communicated something which 99% of people will understand.

Well, you can think it's racist.

Too many Gypsies and Travellers end up in prison – this must be addressed | Joseph Cottrell-Boyce

Joseph Cottrell-Boyce: Making education accessible to Travellers is vital, but we must also acknowledge the effects of prejudice and discrimination

www.theguardian.com

"A report released yesterday by HM Inspectorate of Prisons revealed that around 5% of prisoners in England and Wales consider themselves to be Gypsy, Romany or Traveller:"

"Given that only 0.1% of respondents to the 2011 census in England and Wales identified themselves as "Gypsy or Irish Traveller", this is a huge over-representation."

You're looking at about 63,000 people who got recorded as Gypsy or Traveller in 2011. Obviously this figure is likely to be one of the least reliable because they're they hardest to get to do a census.

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/prisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/04/gypsies-romany-travellers-findings.pdf

Gypsies and Travellers are most likely to be a higher percentage of Secure Training Centres, then women's prisons, then local and category B prisons, low level stuff, probably because of thieving rather than more hard core crime.

Gypsies and Travellers said they were more likely to have had a problem with drugs and alcohol before going to prison than other groups.

Clearly there's a problem. Now, the Gypsy community can either try and address these problems or it can go around blaming others for their problems, calling them racist.

The reality is that Gypsies and Travellers, because of their lifestyle and not because of their ethnicity, end up having lots of problems.

 

[Mortimer]

And yet he said it, and he communicated something which 99% of people will understand.

Well, you can think it's racist.

Too many Gypsies and Travellers end up in prison – this must be addressed | Joseph Cottrell-Boyce

Joseph Cottrell-Boyce: Making education accessible to Travellers is vital, but we must also acknowledge the effects of prejudice and discrimination

www.theguardian.com

"A report released yesterday by HM Inspectorate of Prisons revealed that around 5% of prisoners in England and Wales consider themselves to be Gypsy, Romany or Traveller:"

"Given that only 0.1% of respondents to the 2011 census in England and Wales identified themselves as "Gypsy or Irish Traveller", this is a huge over-representation."

You're looking at about 63,000 people who got recorded as Gypsy or Traveller in 2011. Obviously this figure is likely to be one of the least reliable because they're they hardest to get to do a census.

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/prisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/04/gypsies-romany-travellers-findings.pdf

Gypsies and Travellers are most likely to be a higher percentage of Secure Training Centres, then women's prisons, then local and category B prisons, low level stuff, probably because of thieving rather than more hard core crime.

Gypsies and Travellers said they were more likely to have had a problem with drugs and alcohol before going to prison than other groups.

Clearly there's a problem. Now, the Gypsy community can either try and address these problems or it can go around blaming others for their problems, calling them racist.

The reality is that Gypsies and Travellers, because of their lifestyle and not because of their ethnicity, end up having lots of problems.

What if I dont even know that guy who is in prison or used drugs or raped a woman? If I dont even know him, is it right to blame me for that? To say im a rapist? Common sense tells no it is not right. You blame the gypsy community, the result is that often gypsies as groups even whole families, children, women etc. get lynched and their houses set on fire. Sometimes for false accussations even. Very dangerous what you say, there are cases where random gypsies get murdered, even by police, for something like driving too fast, like in greece a month ago by a policeman. Very dangerous to blame "the gypsies" that could mean you could kill me personally, for something someone in a british prison did because he identified as "traveller". And there are much more gypsies, then recorded on the census you even say that yourself. So the statistics would look different, that less gypsies are criminal then there are gypsies, then it looks now if all gypsies were recorded. They who do not identify as gypsies are not spared from discrimination even if they do not identify as gypsies, they live a normal life. But others know they are gypsies and discriminate them. Gypsies have many problems, and one of the problems is they do not identify as gypsies nor organise themselfes politically. Only some do, but many dont, they lack national self-conscious and pride in their origins. That is the result of history of marginalisation. What he did is definitely a "racist joke" "joke" because it is not even funny. For him it is funny, like saying gypsies belong in the ovens, and then laughing, i saw such comments on youtube, and they also think it is a "joke". It maybe funny for some, but it has a serious underlying meaning, they are a bit serious about that, but if confronted they would say it is not racist, it is just a joke. I saw really many commenting on YouTube videos where it is about gypsy reality shows, "fuck those gypsies belong to the ovens".

 

[frigidweirdo]

What if I dont even know that guy who is in prison or used drugs or raped a woman? If I dont even know him, is it right to blame me for that? To say im a rapist? Common sense tells no it is not right. You blame the gypsy community, the result is that often gypsies as groups even whole families, children, women etc. get lynched and their houses set on fire. Sometimes for false accussations even. Very dangerous what you say, there are cases where random gypsies get murdered, even by police, for something like driving too fast, like in greece a month ago by a policeman. Very dangerous to blame "the gypsies" that could mean you could kill me personally, for something someone in a british prison did because he identified as "traveller". And there are much more gypsies, then recorded on the census you even say that yourself. So the statistics would look different, that less gypsies are criminal then there are gypsies, then it looks now if all gypsies were recorded. They who do not identify as gypsies are not spared from discrimination even if they do not identify as gypsies, they live a normal life. But others know they are gypsies and discriminate them. Gypsies have many problems, and one of the problems is they do not identify as gypsies nor organise themselfes politically. Only some do, but many dont, they lack national self-conscious and pride in their origins. That is the result of history of marginalisation. What he did is definitely a "racist joke" "joke" because it is not even funny. For him it is funny, like saying gypsies belong in the ovens, and then laughing, i saw such comments on youtube, and they also think it is a "joke". It maybe funny for some, but it has a serious underlying meaning, they are a bit serious about that, but if confronted they would say it is not racist, it is just a joke. I saw really many commenting on YouTube videos where it is about gypsy reality shows, "fuck those gypsies belong to the ovens".

Am I blaming you for what that other guy did? No.

Get off the rapist thing, that was just a joke, most people don't seem to think Gypsies are rapists. Thieves, yes.

We, as humans, group people into thing? Is it fair? Probably not, but that's the way it goes. We could group Europeans into those who love to war with their neighbors and those who don't. That'd be Serbia and Russia as those who like to war with their neighbors, and everyone else (well, maybe exclude Belarus, who knows?) who doesn't. You're from Serbia, is it fair to call you that?
No, but it's going to happen anyway because it's your group and if you were a Serb citizen you'd have the right to vote and choose the government.

Is it dangerous? Yes and no. Depends on how it functions. However, I see at the end you brought up the Germans. The Germans have managed to change their perception. Once they were evil Nazis, now they're not, for the most part. Especially in the former West Germany.

If Gypsies, as a group, want to be seen as something else, then they need to become SOMETHING ELSE.

It's how humans work. We're emotional beings. We need emotions. Without emotions we wouldn't have sex, we wouldn't have children, we wouldn't do a lot of things. Emotions keep us going as a race, and they fuck us up tremendously. Not fair, but the way it goes.

 

[Mortimer]

Am I blaming you for what that other guy did? No.

Get off the rapist thing, that was just a joke, most people don't seem to think Gypsies are rapists. Thieves, yes.

We, as humans, group people into thing? Is it fair? Probably not, but that's the way it goes. We could group Europeans into those who love to war with their neighbors and those who don't. That'd be Serbia and Russia as those who like to war with their neighbors, and everyone else (well, maybe exclude Belarus, who knows?) who doesn't. You're from Serbia, is it fair to call you that?
No, but it's going to happen anyway because it's your group and if you were a Serb citizen you'd have the right to vote and choose the government.

Is it dangerous? Yes and no. Depends on how it functions. However, I see at the end you brought up the Germans. The Germans have managed to change their perception. Once they were evil Nazis, now they're not, for the most part. Especially in the former West Germany.

If Gypsies, as a group, want to be seen as something else, then they need to become SOMETHING ELSE.

It's how humans work. We're emotional beings. We need emotions. Without emotions we wouldn't have sex, we wouldn't have children, we wouldn't do a lot of things. Emotions keep us going as a race, and they fuck us up tremendously. Not fair, but the way it goes.

You excuse discrimination and rationalise it, it starts with microagressions ends with persecution, violence and genocide. Violence against Roma is common in many parts of Europe. You say it is not fair but that it is how it goes, that is why you are guilty.

 

[Mortimer]

Am I blaming you for what that other guy did? No.

Get off the rapist thing, that was just a joke, most people don't seem to think Gypsies are rapists. Thieves, yes.

We, as humans, group people into thing? Is it fair? Probably not, but that's the way it goes. We could group Europeans into those who love to war with their neighbors and those who don't. That'd be Serbia and Russia as those who like to war with their neighbors, and everyone else (well, maybe exclude Belarus, who knows?) who doesn't. You're from Serbia, is it fair to call you that?
No, but it's going to happen anyway because it's your group and if you were a Serb citizen you'd have the right to vote and choose the government.

Is it dangerous? Yes and no. Depends on how it functions. However, I see at the end you brought up the Germans. The Germans have managed to change their perception. Once they were evil Nazis, now they're not, for the most part. Especially in the former West Germany.

If Gypsies, as a group, want to be seen as something else, then they need to become SOMETHING ELSE.

It's how humans work. We're emotional beings. We need emotions. Without emotions we wouldn't have sex, we wouldn't have children, we wouldn't do a lot of things. Emotions keep us going as a race, and they fuck us up tremendously. Not fair, but the way it goes.

Also I long ago forgave him the joke, I said "OK it is a silly joke, but to "steal and to rape" are very serious things, but ok I will forgive you". You entered the discussion and said it is ok to say all of that to a gypsy, to say it about all gypsies, you rationalise why it is ok if some people of one group do one thing, that it should be blamed on all of them. I do not think you are in 2023 when it comes to roma gypsies.

 

[Mortimer]

Also you say roma must change and they have to prove they are not criminals, why i have to prove im not a criminal, in which way i must change? That is the question in which way the majority of law abiding roma must change? Also there are no german nazis anymore? Did germans after the war really changed, they acknowledged the genocide against roma only in 1990 i think, not before that, they said it was only to fight crime and the roma were guilty themselfes. Did all the nazis changed suddenly after the war or you changed your opinion about them? What if roma change, but you dont change your opinion of them?

 

[Mortimer]

Am I blaming you for what that other guy did? No.

Get off the rapist thing, that was just a joke, most people don't seem to think Gypsies are rapists. Thieves, yes.

We, as humans, group people into thing? Is it fair? Probably not, but that's the way it goes. We could group Europeans into those who love to war with their neighbors and those who don't. That'd be Serbia and Russia as those who like to war with their neighbors, and everyone else (well, maybe exclude Belarus, who knows?) who doesn't. You're from Serbia, is it fair to call you that?
No, but it's going to happen anyway because it's your group and if you were a Serb citizen you'd have the right to vote and choose the government.

Is it dangerous? Yes and no. Depends on how it functions. However, I see at the end you brought up the Germans. The Germans have managed to change their perception. Once they were evil Nazis, now they're not, for the most part. Especially in the former West Germany.

If Gypsies, as a group, want to be seen as something else, then they need to become SOMETHING ELSE.

It's how humans work. We're emotional beings. We need emotions. Without emotions we wouldn't have sex, we wouldn't have children, we wouldn't do a lot of things. Emotions keep us going as a race, and they fuck us up tremendously. Not fair, but the way it goes.

That Serbs and Russians love to have war is wrong. That Brits do not love to have war is also wrong, most wars involves americans and brits, maybe not with their neighbours but somewhere in the middle east, or in another place. Brits are always at war and support it. It is just your opinion, the opinion of brits about themselfes, and if you group it like that and say it is ok, is it ok to say to a serb you love war you must change. Serbs must change, you must change, you love war, and if you do that thing do you think it is a discrimination?

 

[frigidweirdo]

You excuse discrimination and rationalise it, it starts with microagressions ends with persecution, violence and genocide. Violence against Roma is common in many parts of Europe. You say it is not fair but that it is how it goes, that is why you are guilty.

Well if that's what you've taken from this conversation then I'm a little disappointed. It looks like you want to find excuses. The Gypsies are the only ones who can help themselves.

Humans are humans. I don't need to "rationalise" it, just to say it is what it is. I can try and tell people not to do it, but there are many, many people who work on a basic level and they will look for people to hate, look for ways to push themselves up in society by pulling others down.
Ignore that reality at your peril, regardless of whether you like it or not.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Also I long ago forgave him the joke, I said "OK it is a silly joke, but to "steal and to rape" are very serious things, but ok I will forgive you". You entered the discussion and said it is ok to say all of that to a gypsy, to say it about all gypsies, you rationalise why it is ok if some people of one group do one thing, that it should be blamed on all of them. I do not think you are in 2023 when it comes to roma gypsies.

No, I didn't say it was okay to say that at all.

I said that Gypsies could change how they're seen.
Do I discriminate against Gypsies? No, I don't. I've lived in places with lots of Gypsies and I still didn't discriminate, even when those Gypsies would have discriminated against me.

You can get all angry at me, it doesn't change anything.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That Serbs and Russians love to have war is wrong. That Brits do not love to have war is also wrong, most wars involves americans and brits, maybe not with their neighbours but somewhere in the middle east, or in another place. Brits are always at war and support it. It is just your opinion, the opinion of brits about themselfes, and if you group it like that and say it is ok, is it ok to say to a serb you love war you must change. Serbs must change, you must change, you love war, and if you do that thing do you think it is a discrimination?

Is it?
I marched with the Kosovan Albanians in Pristina when it was officially still a part of Serbia. The Serbs caused war in the 1990s, they're pushing towards war in Kosovo right now, why? NUMBER PLATES of the stupid things to get angry about.
The Russians, well....
Who else has started a war since 1945 in Europe against their neighbor.... that'd be.... nobody.
Yes, I know about Britain and the US and France also going to war, that's the reason I put the thing about "neighbors" in there. I'm not excusing the British or the French here, but why do you think that the only two countries that have gone to war against the neighbors, are two Slavic countries that are best buddies? It's a mentality.

Britain and France go to war following the US, hiding behind US protection, hiding behind the evil of the US war machine. It's something else, just as bad, but something else.