Gubernatorial Decrees and the Fifth Amendment

[rightwinger]

Quoting the "general welfare" provisions of the Constitution in order to justify acts of Congress (or the President) is an indication of Constitutional ignorance - no offense. Congress' powers are specifically enumerated, and the "general welfare" wording does not expand on those powers, which are constrained specifically by the Tenth Amendment. This argument was had and settled a couple centuries ago.

Sorry, but the courts have never agreed with your strict interpretation of enumerated powers or the tenth amendment.

 

[miketx]

Quoting the "general welfare" provisions of the Constitution in order to justify acts of Congress (or the President) is an indication of Constitutional ignorance - no offense. Congress' powers are specifically enumerated, and the "general welfare" wording does not expand on those powers, which are constrained specifically by the Tenth Amendment. This argument was had and settled a couple centuries ago.

Sorry, but the courts have never agreed with your strict interpretation of enumerated powers or the tenth amendment.

That's because the courts are bought and sold.

 

[rightwinger]

Quoting the "general welfare" provisions of the Constitution in order to justify acts of Congress (or the President) is an indication of Constitutional ignorance - no offense. Congress' powers are specifically enumerated, and the "general welfare" wording does not expand on those powers, which are constrained specifically by the Tenth Amendment. This argument was had and settled a couple centuries ago.

Sorry, but the courts have never agreed with your strict interpretation of enumerated powers or the tenth amendment.

That's because the courts are bought and sold.

Our courts are conservative

 

[TNHarley]

Can you point to that power in the constitution?

At the State level?
That is where they are being closed

Sigh
There is no emergency powers in the constitution.
States right do not Trump the amendments of the constitution.
Of course, you do not care about any of that. Do you

Helping in an emergency is for the General Welfare of We the People.
Well within the broad powers of Congress

Lol it doesnt surprise me you dont know what that means.

Of course I know what it means
It means......for the good of the country

What did you think it means?

It means taxes collected must be used to support the common good of the united states as a WHOLE. It also must be done within the scope of the enumerated powers as well.
All you dipshits that think it means unlimited powers are lazy morons. If it was unlimited powers, what was the purpose of the constitution, and specifically, the enumerated powers?
Alexander Hamilton. Federalist papers : This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended
Intent is well documented. Try studying it.

 

[rightwinger]

At the State level?
That is where they are being closed

Sigh
There is no emergency powers in the constitution.
States right do not Trump the amendments of the constitution.
Of course, you do not care about any of that. Do you

Helping in an emergency is for the General Welfare of We the People.
Well within the broad powers of Congress

Lol it doesnt surprise me you dont know what that means.

Of course I know what it means
It means......for the good of the country

What did you think it means?

It means taxes collected must be used to support the common good of the united states as a WHOLE. It also must be done within the scope of the enumerated powers as well.
All you dipshits that think it means unlimited powers are lazy morons. If it was unlimited powers, what was the purpose of the constitution, and specifically, the enumerated powers?
Alexander Hamilton. Federalist papers : This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended
Intent is well documented. Try studying it.

Absolutely

The United States as a whole benefits from the General Welfare clause.

It doesn’t mean each person benefits the same, but the nation as a whole benefit.

Article 1, Section 1, Congress does what is in the best interests of We the People. If not, they get voted out. Been working for over 240 years.

 

[jillian]

Governor Wolf of Pennsylvania has decreed that all non-essential businesses within the State must close pending his approval to re-open. And he listed many examples of non-essentials like restaurants, bars, gyms, bowling alleys, etc.

The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (imposed on the States by the 14th), states that "No person shall...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..."

If I am, for example, the owner of a golf course, this decree deprives me of the right to earn a living, essentially making my PROPERTY, i.e., the golf course, worthless during the pendency of the decree. This is analogous to a new zoning law that makes undeveloped property un-buildable, which has been held to be a "property" right under the Fifth Amendment. As for my golf course, it is worse than worthless, in fact, because it still requires costly maintenance regardless of whether any paying customers are using it.

"Due process," is a rather elusive term, but it manifestly requires that before the State may take my "property," I must have a hearing before some judicial or quasi-judicial official, and have an opportunity to plead my case under the law.

Is the Governor's decree unconstitutional?

The 5th amendment only applies to criminal matters, not civil

you should refer to the takings clause and in this case it isn’t a taking. It is a health emergency.
Thanks for the pretend legal analysis

 

[miketx]

Governor Wolf of Pennsylvania has decreed that all non-essential businesses within the State must close pending his approval to re-open. And he listed many examples of non-essentials like restaurants, bars, gyms, bowling alleys, etc.

The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (imposed on the States by the 14th), states that "No person shall...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..."

If I am, for example, the owner of a golf course, this decree deprives me of the right to earn a living, essentially making my PROPERTY, i.e., the golf course, worthless during the pendency of the decree. This is analogous to a new zoning law that makes undeveloped property un-buildable, which has been held to be a "property" right under the Fifth Amendment. As for my golf course, it is worse than worthless, in fact, because it still requires costly maintenance regardless of whether any paying customers are using it.

"Due process," is a rather elusive term, but it manifestly requires that before the State may take my "property," I must have a hearing before some judicial or quasi-judicial official, and have an opportunity to plead my case under the law.

Is the Governor's decree unconstitutional?

The 5th amendment only applies to criminal matters, not civil

you should refer to the takings clause and in this case it isn’t a taking. It is a health emergency.
Thanks for the pretend legal analysis

I see, so unless I'm a criminal I have no 5th amendment rights.

 

[TNHarley]

Sigh
There is no emergency powers in the constitution.
States right do not Trump the amendments of the constitution.
Of course, you do not care about any of that. Do you

Helping in an emergency is for the General Welfare of We the People.
Well within the broad powers of Congress

Lol it doesnt surprise me you dont know what that means.

Of course I know what it means
It means......for the good of the country

What did you think it means?

It means taxes collected must be used to support the common good of the united states as a WHOLE. It also must be done within the scope of the enumerated powers as well.
All you dipshits that think it means unlimited powers are lazy morons. If it was unlimited powers, what was the purpose of the constitution, and specifically, the enumerated powers?
Alexander Hamilton. Federalist papers : This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended
Intent is well documented. Try studying it.

Absolutely

The United States as a whole benefits from the General Welfare clause.

It doesn’t mean each person benefits the same, but the nation as a whole benefit.

Article 1, Section 1, Congress does what is in the best interests of We the People. If not, they get voted out. Been working for over 240 years.

Sigh
Learn to read and stop spreading lies.
Are you russian?

 

[rightwinger]

Helping in an emergency is for the General Welfare of We the People.
Well within the broad powers of Congress

Lol it doesnt surprise me you dont know what that means.

Of course I know what it means
It means......for the good of the country

What did you think it means?

It means taxes collected must be used to support the common good of the united states as a WHOLE. It also must be done within the scope of the enumerated powers as well.
All you dipshits that think it means unlimited powers are lazy morons. If it was unlimited powers, what was the purpose of the constitution, and specifically, the enumerated powers?
Alexander Hamilton. Federalist papers : This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended
Intent is well documented. Try studying it.

Absolutely

The United States as a whole benefits from the General Welfare clause.

It doesn’t mean each person benefits the same, but the nation as a whole benefit.

Article 1, Section 1, Congress does what is in the best interests of We the People. If not, they get voted out. Been working for over 240 years.

Sigh
Learn to read and stop spreading lies.
Are you russian?

Unfortunately, that is how it works.
Congress has wide latitude and the tenth amendment doesn’t have much power.

 

[Gdjjr]

What did you think it means?

Promote- the general Welfare. Not dictate what a bunch of empty suits feel like doing.

 

[Gdjjr]

Looks like a good thread to post this

Revisiting Governmental Powers – The Future of Freedom Foundation

During this time of extraordinary powers being exercised by federal, state, and local officials, it’s good to refresh ourselves on founding principles. We sometimes hear about a concept called “the inherent powers of government.” These refer to what are commonly called “police powers.” Such...

www.fff.org

The enumerated powers doctrine

So, how did the Framers handle this problem? The document that would call the federal government into existence — the Constitution — made it clear that the federal government’s powers would be limited to those enumerated in the document itself. If a power wasn’t enumerated, then it could not be wielded or exercised.


No inherent powers or police powers to protect the “health, safety, morals, and welfare” of the people. No powers except those that were enumerated in the Constitution.


Thus, when one is determining whether the federal government is legally permitted to wield and exercise such powers as engaging in state-sponsored assassinations, coups, torture, foreign aid, foreign interventions, travel restrictions, sanctions, embargoes, lockdowns, and mandatory curfews, all that one has to do is ascertain whether such powers are among the powers delegated to the federal government in the Constitution.

 

[Gdjjr]

State constitutions and the Fourteenth Amendment
There is, however, something else to consider. The states had their own constitutions, which oftentimes placed restrictions on the powers of the state governments. Thus, a state constitution could have a restriction that would be similar to the First Amendment but that would apply to the state itself. In that case, if the state enacted a compulsory church attendance law, a person could sue in state court to have the law declared unconstitutional under the state constitution.
There is something else to consider: The Fourteenth Amendment. Enacted in 1868, among other things it prohibited the states from depriving any person of life, liberty, and property without due process of law and from abridging the privileges and immunities of citizenship.
The Fourteenth Amendment serves as a severe restriction on the powers of states and localities. Over time, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Fourteenth Amendment implicitly incorporated the rights enumerated within the Bill of Rights (which applied only to the federal government) and applied them to the states.
If a state enacted a law that deprived a person of his liberty without due process, the person could now sue in federal court and seek to have the law declared unconstitutional under the U.S. Constitution. In the same suit, he could also claim the law violated the state constitution as well.
Thus, in determining the legality of laws and actions of state and local governments, such as lockdowns, curfews, travel restrictions, business closures, mandatory vaccinations, and others, the presumption begins with the notion that such actions fall within the traditional European-like police powers of the state to regulate the “health, safety, morals, and welfare” of the citizenry.
But that’s not where the inquiry ends. It must then be determined whether the action or law violates the state constitution. If it does, then the action or law must be declared unconstitutional under the state constitution.
It must also be determined whether the action or law of the state or locality constitutes a deprivation of life, liberty, or property without due process of law and an abridgment of the privileges and immunities of citizenship. If it does, then it is illegal or invalid under our form of government.
My own belief is that the police powers of the states and localities should be limited to targeting, prosecuting, and punishing people who commit crimes of violence or fraud against others. The old European police-power doctrine relating to “health, morals, and welfare” have no place in a genuinely free society.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

 

[Mac-7]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

Yeah, ok

but there is no need to call me a liar

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

Yeah, ok

but there is no need to call me a liar

If you have a pulse, you should have known it was a lie.

 

[Mac-7]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

Yeah, ok

but there is no need to call me a liar

If you have a pulse, you should have known it was a lie.

Whatever

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

Yeah, ok

but there is no need to call me a liar

If you have a pulse, you should have known it was a lie.

Whatever!!

Ah, the mating call of the great American dumbass!

 

[Mac-7]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

Yeah, ok

but there is no need to call me a liar

If you have a pulse, you should have known it was a lie.

Whatever!!

Ah, the mating call of the great American dumbass!

I know you want to wallow in the mud but I have better things to do

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

Yeah, ok

but there is no need to call me a liar

If you have a pulse, you should have known it was a lie.

Whatever!!

Ah, the mating call of the great American dumbass!

I know you want to wallow in the mud but I have better things to do

In that case, stay out of threads you know nothing about.

 

[Mac-7]

National Emergency

All bets are off

My state just closed the schools, restaurants, bars, movies, gyms

Can we count on government employees to not get paid while the private sector is closed?

Who do you think is leading the charge against Coronavirus?

Those worthless government employees

Only a few government workers are fighting the commie virus

teachers for instance

but if government is going to deny private citizens the right to work it should share the pain by denying itself also

Show a public health threat and I am sure they will shut it down

The public school teachers are not teaching

and they should not be paid

My grandson's and granddaughter's teachers are teaching on the internet. Why are you lying like a libtard?

Yeah, ok

but there is no need to call me a liar

If you have a pulse, you should have known it was a lie.

Whatever!!

Ah, the mating call of the great American dumbass!

I know you want to wallow in the mud but I have better things to do

In that case, stay out of threads you know nothing about.

I know you want a pissin’ contest as if you were a child

but that is a waste of my time

you made a good point about internet classes and I conceded your point

now grow up