Greatest generation
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Ringo
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- #63
Lou Conter, the last survivor of the battleship USS Arizona, which exploded and sank during the Japanese bombardment of Pearl Harbor, has passed away. He was 102 years old.
Conter was quartermaster and was standing on the main deck of the Arizona when Japanese planes attacked the battleship at 7:55 a.m. Dec. 7.
After Pearl Harbor, Conter entered flight school to fly PBY patrol bombers, which the Navy used to search for submarines and bomb enemy targets. He flew 200 combat sorties in the Pacific as a member of the Black Cat Squadron, which performed dive bombing missions at night in aircraft painted black.
Conter retired in 1967 after 28 years in the Navy.
With Conter's death, there were 19 survivors of the attack on Pearl Harbor (according to Kathleen Farley, chairman of the Sons and Daughters of Pearl Harbor Survivors). According to a rough estimate by military historian J. Michael Wenger, there were about 87,000 troops on Oahu on December 7.
Conter was quartermaster and was standing on the main deck of the Arizona when Japanese planes attacked the battleship at 7:55 a.m. Dec. 7.
After Pearl Harbor, Conter entered flight school to fly PBY patrol bombers, which the Navy used to search for submarines and bomb enemy targets. He flew 200 combat sorties in the Pacific as a member of the Black Cat Squadron, which performed dive bombing missions at night in aircraft painted black.
Conter retired in 1967 after 28 years in the Navy.
With Conter's death, there were 19 survivors of the attack on Pearl Harbor (according to Kathleen Farley, chairman of the Sons and Daughters of Pearl Harbor Survivors). According to a rough estimate by military historian J. Michael Wenger, there were about 87,000 troops on Oahu on December 7.
Ringo
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- #64
During World War II, American sociologists conducted a large study of their army personnel (VERY large: 600,000 interviews alone).
The results are still actively used in the social sciences and humanities - and we at Stalag null have referred to them more than once.
But what is truly instructive about this study is not even the data itself.
It is the extent to which this data goes against stereotypes and basic expectations of reality .
For the purity of the experiment: read the statements below, and determine which ones are true and which ones are false.
1. Soldiers with higher education were more likely to exhibit symptoms of neurotic disorders than soldiers with less education.
2. Rural residents endured the hardships of military service more easily than urban residents.
3. Soldiers from southern states endured the hot climate of the Pacific Islands more easily .
4. White soldiers had a stronger desire to move up (=get an officer's rank) than black soldiers .
5. Soldiers had a stronger desire to return home while the war was going on, than after Germany was defeated
All of these theses seem intuitively obvious to a person in the first half of the twentieth century .
Of course, intellectual people are less stable mentally - like the ordinary guys on the street who have never heard of any neuroses .
Of course, Southerners have it easier in hot climates .
Of course blacks don't seek promotions because they don't expect to get them anyway (you know what society is like) .
Why even research and test such basic things?
But here's the rub: every single one of these claims is wrong, and what's more, studies have shown that in practice things are exactly the opposite .
Southerners suffered in tropical climates just as much as Northerners.
Poorly educated soldiers were more likely to suffer from neuroses (NB: “neurosis” at the time referred to PTSD, for example) than soldiers with higher education.
Blacks were more likely to seek promotion than whites.
Etc, etc., etc.
In general, when studying people and society, whether in the present or the past, “self-evident” assumptions should be checked first.
What at first glance seems perfectly logical and natural - not requiring study at all - may work quite differently in practice.
The results are still actively used in the social sciences and humanities - and we at Stalag null have referred to them more than once.
But what is truly instructive about this study is not even the data itself.
It is the extent to which this data goes against stereotypes and basic expectations of reality .
For the purity of the experiment: read the statements below, and determine which ones are true and which ones are false.
1. Soldiers with higher education were more likely to exhibit symptoms of neurotic disorders than soldiers with less education.
2. Rural residents endured the hardships of military service more easily than urban residents.
3. Soldiers from southern states endured the hot climate of the Pacific Islands more easily .
4. White soldiers had a stronger desire to move up (=get an officer's rank) than black soldiers .
5. Soldiers had a stronger desire to return home while the war was going on, than after Germany was defeated
All of these theses seem intuitively obvious to a person in the first half of the twentieth century .
Of course, intellectual people are less stable mentally - like the ordinary guys on the street who have never heard of any neuroses .
Of course, Southerners have it easier in hot climates .
Of course blacks don't seek promotions because they don't expect to get them anyway (you know what society is like) .
Why even research and test such basic things?
But here's the rub: every single one of these claims is wrong, and what's more, studies have shown that in practice things are exactly the opposite .
Southerners suffered in tropical climates just as much as Northerners.
Poorly educated soldiers were more likely to suffer from neuroses (NB: “neurosis” at the time referred to PTSD, for example) than soldiers with higher education.
Blacks were more likely to seek promotion than whites.
Etc, etc., etc.
In general, when studying people and society, whether in the present or the past, “self-evident” assumptions should be checked first.
What at first glance seems perfectly logical and natural - not requiring study at all - may work quite differently in practice.
Litwin
Diamond Member
Ringo
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- Thread starter
- #67
Alexander Tikhomirov, Nikolai Ilyin. The feat of petty officer Lysenko. 1968
The picture is painted in gloomy colors - it makes one feel the inhuman tension, the hero's last suicide effort. Ivan Lysenko was indeed a strongman: before the war he took part in the USSR championships in weightlifting and won prizes. It was in the spring of 1943. The Red Army was liberating the Polar Region. The reconnaissance detachment of the Northern Fleet was breaking through to the town of Pechenga. There were fierce battles.
The commander of the detachment, twice Hero of the Soviet Union Viktor Nikolaevich Leonov, recalled:
"A fascist battery protected by a powerful wire fence appeared in front of us. The enemy opened fire. A decisive throw was necessary. I give the command: "Whoever can, but everyone be on the battery."
Next to me was a communist Ivan Lysenko. Noticing my intentions, he shouted: "Commander, you can't go over the wire, you'll die, I'll lift you up now!"
I jumped over the wire and did not see what Lysenko was doing. The scouts later told me that Ivan threw his jacket over his head, climbed up under the cross-wire, tore it out of the ground and, hefting it on his shoulders, stood up to his full height, letting his comrades into the battery. Bullets, one after another, dug into the body of the strong man, and, weakening, Ivan whispered:
- Faster, there is no more strength.
- Be patient a little, Ivan, there is not much left, - asked one of the scouts.
- Then help me, otherwise I will fall.
Next to Ivan Lysenko stood senior lieutenant Alexei Lupov. They let all the scouts on the enemy battery and fell next to each other. Alexei Lupov died immediately, and Ivan Lysenko, having received 21 bullet wounds, still lived.
When the battle on the battery was over, I approached Ivan, and the first question he asked me was:
- How was the task?
- Fulfilled, Ivan, thank you, - I answered.
- How many guys died?
- Very few, a few people, - I reassured Ivan.
- Then it's right. If it had been through the wire, there would have been more.....
Ringo
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- #68
The oldest teacher Nadezhda Strogonova, who saved more than 600 children during the blockade years, passed away in St. Petersburg. Governor Alexander Beglov called her a symbol of the besieged city.
Nadezhda Strogonova was born on September 24, 1920 in the town of Kholm, Nizhny Novgorod region. During the blockade she worked as an elementary school teacher and an educator in an orphanage. Together with her colleagues she saved more than 600 Leningrad orphans. At her suggestion, a monument to the besieged teacher was erected in Solyany Lane.
Beglov noted that Nadezhda Strogonova became an example of the best that is in our teachers: "Nadezhda Vasilyevna became a legend even in her lifetime. Despite her age, she participated in the life of the city until her last days. Her sincere word made us live and believe in the best"
Nadezhda Strogonova was born on September 24, 1920 in the town of Kholm, Nizhny Novgorod region. During the blockade she worked as an elementary school teacher and an educator in an orphanage. Together with her colleagues she saved more than 600 Leningrad orphans. At her suggestion, a monument to the besieged teacher was erected in Solyany Lane.
Beglov noted that Nadezhda Strogonova became an example of the best that is in our teachers: "Nadezhda Vasilyevna became a legend even in her lifetime. Despite her age, she participated in the life of the city until her last days. Her sincere word made us live and believe in the best"
Ringo
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- #69
An Irishman who is the last known surviving fighter pilot from the Battle of Britain has celebrated his 105th birthday at a ceremony in Dublin.
www.rte.ie
Irish Battle of Britain pilot celebrates 105th birthday
An Irishman who is the last known surviving fighter pilot from the Battle of Britain has celebrated his 105th birthday at a ceremony in Dublin.
Ringo
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- #70
Just so you know.
They say that death bypasses a man once, another time, well, and in the third time you can't avoid it for sure.
For lieutenant Alexey Ochkin one of the first fights with fascists almost turned out to be the last - a bullet of a german sniper hit him in the head. But by some miracle Alexey survived and returned from the hospital to the front.
And here - another battle. A german machine gun is shooting from the pillbox. Ochkin takes grenades and crawls to the embrasure. A Nazi bullet hits him in the thigh, but the lieutenant, leaving a bloody trail behind him, crawls further, throws a grenade....
There is an explosion... But the machine gun continues to fire!
From the last strength Alexey rises and covers the embrasure with his body. The bullets shredded him through. The soldiers, who came up, captured the pillbox and the machine gun was silenced forever. The lieutenant's body is carried out of the battlefield on a cloak.
No one calls the orderlies - and so everyone can see that the doctors are already powerless. The soldiers silently say goodbye to the commander, take out sapper shovels, start digging a grave....
Then Alexey opens his eyes and, apparently, having decided that he was captured, carefully pulls out a grenade from his pocket (which he forgot about in the heat of battle) and pulls the pin! A soldier, who arrived in time intercepts the grenade and throws it into the ravine. Then an ambulance train, a hospital and again the front.
Stalingrad. Here Ochkin with his company defends a height. And again seriously wounded. And, having taken command, he defends so, that according to the captured german staff reports the fascists thought that they were facing a battalion, although at that time there were only six soldiers under the command of the wounded lieutenant.
It would seem that one man is more than enough “luck”, but during the forcing of the river Dnieper Ochkin gets a heavy contusion, and such, that he comes to himself... in the morgue, covered with stiffened corpses.
He gets out into the light and scares one of the woman orderlies into fainting. Fortunately, another one has stronger nerves, and she runs after the doctors.
Alexei Yakovlevich Ochkin, nicknamed for his phenomenal survivability “Lieutenant Fire”, reached Prague, where he was wounded again.
After the war he graduated from the Institute of Cinematography, became a movie director and wrote several books about the war.
Alexey Ochkin died on February 16, 2003.
They say that death bypasses a man once, another time, well, and in the third time you can't avoid it for sure.
For lieutenant Alexey Ochkin one of the first fights with fascists almost turned out to be the last - a bullet of a german sniper hit him in the head. But by some miracle Alexey survived and returned from the hospital to the front.
And here - another battle. A german machine gun is shooting from the pillbox. Ochkin takes grenades and crawls to the embrasure. A Nazi bullet hits him in the thigh, but the lieutenant, leaving a bloody trail behind him, crawls further, throws a grenade....
There is an explosion... But the machine gun continues to fire!
From the last strength Alexey rises and covers the embrasure with his body. The bullets shredded him through. The soldiers, who came up, captured the pillbox and the machine gun was silenced forever. The lieutenant's body is carried out of the battlefield on a cloak.
No one calls the orderlies - and so everyone can see that the doctors are already powerless. The soldiers silently say goodbye to the commander, take out sapper shovels, start digging a grave....
Then Alexey opens his eyes and, apparently, having decided that he was captured, carefully pulls out a grenade from his pocket (which he forgot about in the heat of battle) and pulls the pin! A soldier, who arrived in time intercepts the grenade and throws it into the ravine. Then an ambulance train, a hospital and again the front.
Stalingrad. Here Ochkin with his company defends a height. And again seriously wounded. And, having taken command, he defends so, that according to the captured german staff reports the fascists thought that they were facing a battalion, although at that time there were only six soldiers under the command of the wounded lieutenant.
It would seem that one man is more than enough “luck”, but during the forcing of the river Dnieper Ochkin gets a heavy contusion, and such, that he comes to himself... in the morgue, covered with stiffened corpses.
He gets out into the light and scares one of the woman orderlies into fainting. Fortunately, another one has stronger nerves, and she runs after the doctors.
Alexei Yakovlevich Ochkin, nicknamed for his phenomenal survivability “Lieutenant Fire”, reached Prague, where he was wounded again.
After the war he graduated from the Institute of Cinematography, became a movie director and wrote several books about the war.
Alexey Ochkin died on February 16, 2003.
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
"Greatest Generation" label, while being invented with good intentions is as offensive as it gets. It's such bullshit.
Legendary MoH Marine Hershel W. Williams Welcomes Great-Grandson Into The Corps
The great-grandson of legendary U.S. Marine Hershel Woodrow "Woody" Williams has been welcomed into the Corps by his granddad. Williams was awarded thewww.warhistoryonline.com
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
B-i-n-g-o!
caveat: You could have left out a reference to the talking head. But I understand haters like you can't help yourselves.
Ringo
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- Thread starter
- #73
On the night of November 26, Maria Filippovna Limanskaya, a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, world-famous as the “Brandenburg Madonna”, “Queen of the Brandenburg Gate” passed away. She was 100 years old.
On May 2, 1945, a female traffic controller was captured by the military photo correspondent Eugene Khaldey. In the famous photo she regulates traffic at the Brandenburg Gate.
Maria Filippovna went to the front at the age of 18. She became a traffic controller, as men were sent to the war zone during the war. She first took to the road near Bataysk, Rostov region, where she controlled traffic at the Don crossing. Limanskaya participated in the Battle of Stalingrad, the liberation of Simferopol, Belarus and Poland, and reached Berlin.
Earlier, Great Patriotic War veteran Gadzhi Magomedovich Inchilov passed away in Makhachkala. He celebrated his 100th birthday in October.
On May 2, 1945, a female traffic controller was captured by the military photo correspondent Eugene Khaldey. In the famous photo she regulates traffic at the Brandenburg Gate.
Maria Filippovna went to the front at the age of 18. She became a traffic controller, as men were sent to the war zone during the war. She first took to the road near Bataysk, Rostov region, where she controlled traffic at the Don crossing. Limanskaya participated in the Battle of Stalingrad, the liberation of Simferopol, Belarus and Poland, and reached Berlin.
Earlier, Great Patriotic War veteran Gadzhi Magomedovich Inchilov passed away in Makhachkala. He celebrated his 100th birthday in October.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Hero of the Soviet Union medals were handed out like candy. They are about the equal of a Bronze Star or Meritorious Service Medal.The oldest Hero of the Soviet Union Vasily Michurin turns 105 years old.
In the Red Army-since October 1939. On the fronts of the Great Patriotic War since 1941. He participated in the defense of Minsk and Mogilev. Near the city of Gzhatsk (now Gagarin) In the Smolensk region, he was wounded. He participated in the liberation of the cities of Baranovichi and Brest, fought in East Prussia, stormed the capital of Nazi Germany, Berlin. The joyful news of the Victory found V. S. Michurin in the capital of Czechoslovakia, Prague, and the war itself ended for him only on May 13, 1945.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Stalin’s generals were lap dogs. They were terrified of not only Stalin, but the Commissars he appointed to rule over them. The Commissars made the final military decisions; that’s the main reason Soviet casualties and equipment losses were so catastrophic.
Ringo
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #76
No, moron, the lap dogs were Hitler's generals who didn't dare to contradict their Fuhrer, but then blamed him for everything in their memoirs. Stalin's generals were the result of positive selection, who were not afraid to defend their thoughts to Stalin and there were enough examples of that. You are just a stupid ass who has heard nothing but anti-Soviet propaganda.
PoliticalChic
Diamond Member
This is one of those made up internet quotes.On the night of November 26, Maria Filippovna Limanskaya, a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, world-famous as the “Brandenburg Madonna”, “Queen of the Brandenburg Gate” passed away. She was 100 years old.
On May 2, 1945, a female traffic controller was captured by the military photo correspondent Eugene Khaldey. In the famous photo she regulates traffic at the Brandenburg Gate.
Maria Filippovna went to the front at the age of 18. She became a traffic controller, as men were sent to the war zone during the war. She first took to the road near Bataysk, Rostov region, where she controlled traffic at the Don crossing. Limanskaya participated in the Battle of Stalingrad, the liberation of Simferopol, Belarus and Poland, and reached Berlin.
Earlier, Great Patriotic War veteran Gadzhi Magomedovich Inchilov passed away in Makhachkala. He celebrated his 100th birthday in October.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Disagreeing with Stalin meant either a bullet in the back of the head, or a long sojourn in the NKVD's cellars wishing that you had the bullet to the head. Disagreeing with Hitler got you dismissed from your command. Many generals disagreed with Hitler including Guderian resulting in nothing worse than being transferred to a dead-end job.
Ringo
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- #79
From book of anti-soviet auther Victor Suvorov "Suicide":
Chapter 20
A ruler's intelligence is first judged by the kind of people he brings close to him.
Niccolo Machiavelli.
“The Sovereign.”
No one doubts that Russia is capable of giving birth to Zeidlitzes, Murats, Rommels - many Russian generals in 1941-1945 were undoubtedly on that level.
Major General W. von Mellenthin.
“Panzer Battles.”
1
Major General Grigorenko continues his story about the commander of the Far Eastern Front. Here is another excerpt from his book:
“The beginning of the war in a special way highlighted the image of general Apanasenko. I can not say now, on what day from the beginning of the war, but, undoubtedly, at the very beginning of the war, came the order to ship immediately to the West all supply of weapons and ammunition. Smorodinov, who for a long time was a leading mobilizer of the General Staff, was indignant: “What kind of a fool takes weapons from one front for another. We are not a rear district, we can enter the battle at any minute. We must go to Apanasenko. He is the only one 'there' can listen to”.
As soon as Apanasenko realized what the matter was, he did not listen to further explanations. His head quickly filled with blood, and he growled:
- What's the matter with you! It's a shambles. You understand, it's a wreck! And we are going to prove something private? Start shipping immediately! You, - he turned to the head of the rear, - your head is responsible for the speed of shipment. Mobilize all railway rolling stock and throw it out of the front with courier speed. Load day and night. Report the loading and dispatch of each echelon to the center and to me personally...
...The order came to immediately send eight fully manned and armed divisions to Moscow. The pace of dispatch was so high that troops from the camps left for the loading stations on alarm. At the same time, some of the people who were outside the unit, were not in time for the loading, in some units there was a shortage of weapons and transportation.
Moscow demanded full staffing, and Apanasenko was not the man who could allow violations of the order. Therefore, was organized check-out station - Kuibyshevka-Vostochnaya - the residence of the headquarters of the 2nd Army. At this station was created a reserve of all weapons, transportation, means of traction, soldiers and officers. Commanders of the departing divisions and regiments through the chiefs of echelons and specially appointed officers checked the presence of shortages in each echelon. This was reported by telegraph to the 2nd Army. There all the missing was fed to the appropriate echelons. Personally responsible for this before Apanasenko was the Chief of Staff of the army. Each echelon from the check-out station had to go out and came out actually in a complete set ...
...Without asking anyone, Apanasenko began to form new divisions in place of the lost divisions. A general mobilization of all ages up to and including 55 was announced. But it was still not enough.
And Apanasenko ordered the prosecutor's office to check the cases of camp laborers and all those who could be released and sent to the troops ...
...There was a superfast dispatch of eight divisions to save Moscow. Then they ordered to send four more, then one by one, two by two sent another six. A total of 18 divisions, out of a total of 19 that were part of the front.
Only the 40th was not sent, and that, apparently, because it was very difficult to take it out of Posyet. Instead of each one sent to the front Apanasenko ordered to form a second-order one. For these formations Apanasenko also deserves a monument. After all, he led all the formations on his own initiative and under his own responsibility with the disapproving attitude of some of his closest assistants and with complete indifference and even irony of the center.
The center knew about the formations, but was convinced that it was impossible to form anything in the Far East without the help of the center: there were no people, no weapons, no transport, and nothing at all. Therefore, the center, knowing about the organizational efforts of the Far Eastern Front, pretended that it knew nothing about it. Let them play mobilization there. But Apanasenko found everything ... In general, despite the absolutely incredible difficulties, the second-in-command divisions were formed to replace those that had left. They were formed even more by two or three. When the new formations became a reality, the General Staff finally “cut through the voice”. All newly formed divisions were approved and given numbers. And the center is so confident in the seriousness of the new formations that took into the active army four more divisions, already from among the second priority.
Thus, during the period from July 1941 to June 1942 the Far East sent to the active army 22 rifle divisions and several dozens of marching reinforcements. Now we know already that during the first year of the war between the Japanese and the Germans was a serious skirmish. German intelligence claimed that the Soviets “from under the noses” of the Japanese take divisions and transfer them to the West.
Japanese intelligence insisted that no Soviet divisions had left their places of deployment. It is difficult to even imagine how events would have unfolded in the Far East if a man-executive had been in command there. He would have sent all the troops, as Moscow demanded, and would not have formed anything, since unauthorized formations are strictly forbidden. One remaining division, three army headquarters and one front headquarters, even together with border guards, not only to defend, but also to monitor the vast length of the border of the Far East is impossible. Apanasenko showed in this matter statesmanship and great courage.”
2
The Siberian divisions were the ones that saved Moscow. They were powerful, well-trained, fully manned units, they came from somewhere far away, along the Great Siberian Railway, that's why they were called Siberian.
But these were not Siberian, but Far Eastern divisions. The most famous of them are the 32nd and 78th.
The 32nd (later - 29th Guards) Rifle Division of Colonel V.I. Polosokhin, having arrived from Khasan, unloaded under fire and entered the battle right on the Borodino field. If Apanasenko had been a little bit slower with the loading....
The 78th (hereinafter - 9th Guards) Rifle Division of Colonel AP Beloborodov (later - General of the Army) arrived from the Ussuri River and entered the battle near Istra.
A superfluous straw breaks the backbone of the camel. The whole science of war comes down to having that very straw at the right moment and placing it on the appropriate spine. Apanasenko gave those straws to Stalin. At the very right moment.
3
And here is another story, all about him, about General Apanasenko. And all the same time - the fall of '41.
And the same theme - sending troops from the Far East to save the capital.
Witnesses E.A. Borkov, who during the war was the first secretary of the Khabarovsk Regional Committee:
“On the hardware top-secret connection I received a call from Stalin. Saying hello, says: “We have the most difficult situation between Smolensk and Vyazma .... Hitler is preparing an offensive on Moscow, we do not have enough troops to save the capital .... I urge you to fly to Moscow immediately, take Apanasenko with you, persuade him to be compliant, not to be stubborn, I know his stubbornness”.
During the years of my work in the Far East and elsewhere, Stalin never called me. Therefore, I was extremely surprised when I heard his voice in the telephone receiver ... We have long been accustomed to the fact that his word for us the law, he never asked anyone anything, but ordered and demanded. So I was surprised by the tone, it was as if I was not that I was informed, but reported on the situation in the west of the country. And therefore, when Stalin said out of the ordinary “persuade Apanasenko to be compliant” - this literally shocked me .... At the end he once again repeated: “Fly immediately the fastest military airplane ...”
We arrived in Moscow on the first or second of October at midnight. They were waiting for us at the airfield. They put us in a car and brought us straight to the Kremlin.
We were brought to the reception room. The general accompanying us went into the office to report on our arrival, immediately returned, opened the door wide and said: “Comrade Stalin asks you to come in.”
The master of the office warmly greeted us by the hand, congratulated us on our safe arrival and invited us to sit at a long table covered with green cloth. He did not sit down at first, silently walked around the office, stopped against us and began to talk: “Our troops on the Western Front are engaged in very heavy defensive fighting, and in Ukraine a complete rout .... Ukrainians in general behave badly, many are surrendering, the population welcomes the German troops.”
A short pause, a few steps back and forth across the office. Stalin stopped beside us again and continued: “Hitler has launched a major offensive on Moscow. I am forced to withdraw troops from the Far East. I ask you to understand and enter into our situation.”
A frost ran down my back, and cold sweat broke out on my forehead from this terrible truth, which the leader of the Party and the State had told us.... It was not only about the loss of Moscow, and perhaps the death of the state ... Stalin did not try to ask our opinion, he laid out his papers on the table to, pointing a finger at the information on the available troops of our front, turning to Apanasenko, began to list the numbers of tank and mechanized divisions, artillery regiments and other particularly important formations and units that Apanasenko must immediately ship to Moscow.
Stalin dictated, Apanasenko carefully wrote down, and then immediately, in the office, in the presence of the owner, smoking cradle, signed the order and sent an encrypted telegram to his chief of staff for immediate execution.
It was obvious from everything that our short, clear, business meeting was coming to an end. Strong tea was put on the table. Stalin asked about life in the Far East. I answered. And suddenly followed a question to Apanasenko: “And how many anti-tank guns you have?” The general answered immediately. I don't remember the figure specifically now, but I remember that he named some paltry figure compared to what the Red Army already had at that time. “Load these guns for shipment, too!” - Stalin commanded softly but clearly.
And then suddenly a glass of tea, standing opposite Apanasenko, flew across the long table to the left, the chair under the general as if jumped back. Apanasenko bounced off the table and shouted: “YOU what? What are you doing?!!! Motherfucking tak-peretak!..! And if the Japanese attack, what will I use to defend the Far East? With these leggings?! - and slapped his hands on his sides. - “Take me off my post, shoot me, I won't give up my guns!”
I was dumbfounded. Though everything went round in my head, but the thought pierced me: “This is the end. Now he will call Beria's men, and we will both die. And here I was again struck by Stalin's behavior: “Calm down, calm down, Comrade Apanasenko! Is it worth worrying so much about these guns? Keep them.”
Saying goodbye, Apanasenko asked to go to the active army - to the front.
“No, no,” replied the Supreme Commander-in-Chief in a friendly manner. - Such brave and experienced as you, the party needs in the Far East.”
This story was recorded and sent to me by Fyodor Trofimovich Morgun, Hero of Socialist Labor, who for more than 15 years was first secretary of the Poltava regional committee of the CPSU, then first chairman of the USSR Goskompriroda. This story is now published in his book “Long before the fireworks” (Poltava, 1994. P. 67-71).
To this we should add that the action took place in October 1941. Before Japan got involved in the war against the USA. At that moment one could expect anything from Japan. The fall of 1941 was a truly threatening period for our Far East.
The two most difficult years, 1941 and 1942, the Far Eastern Front was commanded by Army General Apanasenko. Personally, I have no doubt that in the event of a Japanese attack on our Far East, the Japanese generals in the person of Apanasenko would have received a worthy opponent. Even without enough troops, military equipment and ammunition, Apanasenko would have managed to make the life of the conquerors not the most pleasant ...
General Apanasenko managed to break out into the active army only in 1943. To the decisive front. The Kursk Bulge. He was mortally wounded in the battles near Belgorod during the Battle of Kursk. Army General Apanasenko Joseph Rodionovich died on August 5, 1943 on the day when the capital of our Motherland Moscow first saluted the troops who won an outstanding victory that decided the outcome of the war.
4
And now Hitler's agitators tell us that Stalin exterminated the best of the best, that only semi-literate morons, initiative-deprived dullards and obsequious sycophants remained around him...
5
Immediately after the war, German generals flooded the book market with memoirs. At the end of the 50s, these memoirs flooded into our country: Westfal, Blumentrit, Zeitzler, Zimmerman, Manteufel, Guderian, Goth, Rendulich, Tipelskirch, Kesselring, Schneider, Mellenthin.
I confess: I liked the memoirs of German generals much better than those of Soviet generals. A Soviet general recalled how Private Ivanov blew up a German tank with his last grenade, how Sergeant Petrov destroyed the attacking Hitlerites with his last shell, how under a barrage of fire Political Officer Sidorov raised the soldiers in the attack, how Lieutenant Semyonov directed his burning plane at a cluster of tanks.... And our generals told our generals about what Private Ivanov said, dying: he asked to join the party. And Sergeant Petrov also asked to join the Party. And all the others.
But for some reason nobody made any feats with the Germans, showed no heroism. In their memoirs there's no room for feats. For them, war is work. And they described the war from the point of view of professionals: I have so many forces, the enemy, presumably, so many.... My task is this. My task is hindered by such and such factors, and aided and abetted by such and such. In this situation there could be three solutions, I chose the second... For such and such a reason. Here's what I got out of it.
Memoirs of German generals are like a set of fascinating instructive puzzles. Everyone wrote in his own way, but all of them are interesting. And the memoirs of our generals seem to have been written by the same group of typists, who only rearranged the numbers of divisions and regiments, the names of places and the names of heroes. For some reason our soldier was always short of ammunition, shells, grenades, and all the generals' memoirs were about how our guys rushed at a tank with an axe, shot down an airplane with a rifle and pierced the gas tank of an armored personnel carrier with a pitchfork. Everything was kind of reduced to hand-to-hand combat, to muzzle-beating, as if there was no military art, no tactics.
Our memoirs are a school of courage.
With the Germans - a school of thinking.
Soon, however, a doubt arose: they are all very smart, Mr. German generals, and Hitler in their descriptions - a complete idiot. If so, how did these smart people allow themselves to be commanded by an idiot?
This thought first occurred to me when I was reading Colonel General Kurt Zeitzler. He was Chief of the General Staff during the Battle of Stalingrad. He describes Hitler as a complete moron: “The first part of my report was set out in a form accessible to a person not versed in military matters” (Fateful Decisions. Moscow: Voenizdat, 1958. P. 159). The Chief of the General Staff drafted reports for his Supreme Commander-in-Chief as for a man from the street who does not know the difference between a corps and a brigade. To put it simply, Colonel-General Zeitzler made reports for Hitler as for an idiot. To be clear... Further Zeitzler on many pages describes his ingenious decisions (really interesting) and the reaction to them of the stupid, stubborn sergeant.
That's when I thought: but you, Herr Zeitzler, had a way out. In such cases, the Chief of General Staff should say to his favorite leader or Fuhrer: fight as you like, but I am not responsible for all this before my country and history. Fire me, man. Send me to any position, even to a corps, even to a division, or even shoot me if you like, but you must answer for your stupidity.
But no. The wise Zeitzler didn't say so. And the other generals kept quiet. That's why they all bear full responsibility for Hitler's stupidity.
And here is an example from our history. The Germans have covered Kiev and the vast areas around it with giant pincers: north of Konotop - Guderian's 2nd Panzer Group, south of Kremenchug - Kleist's 1st Panzer Group. The situation is clear - the pincers will close in the rear of the South-Western Front, and in the cauldron will be five Soviet armies. What to do? The opinion of the Chief of the General Staff, Army General G.K. Zhukov: five armies immediately withdraw from under Kiev. How to withdraw? - Comrade Stalin doesn't understand. What about Kiev? Zhukov has no doubts: surrender Kiev!
Stalin is on the fence: how can it be surrendered? Stalin insists: Kiev must be held. But Zhukov knows: we won't hold it anyway. It is better to give up Kiev than to give up Kiev and one and a half million soldiers defending it. Stalin insists: to defend! And then Zhukov demands his resignation: you know better, fight as you know, but I am responsible for this neither before the people nor before history is not responsible. I am ready to go anywhere, to fight even as a company commander, even regimental commander, ready to command a corps, army, front, but I do not intend to fulfill your criminal orders. And Zhukov was removed. And immediately a terrible catastrophe broke out. Two German tank groups converged near Lokhvitsa...
But without Zhukov.
Comrade Stalin scratched the back of his head, after that he sent Zhukov to the place where the question of life and death was decided at the moment. And in 1942 Stalin appointed Zhukov as his deputy.
6
And here is the same situation, the same moment and the same place - Kiev. In the German High Command conflict: what to do - to go directly to Moscow or turn to Kiev? Frankly speaking, both are deadly. If the German troops go directly to Moscow, all their rear will remain open, and then from under Kiev will be struck, which will cut off the German troops from the supply bases. And if the German troops will turn to Kiev, it will be lost time and Moscow will have to advance on the mud and snow, and to this German troops are not ready. So what to do? Hitler considers it necessary to turn to Kiev. Guderian does not agree. Then he will insist that it was a fatal mistake, which led to the collapse. If you think so, protest! Behave as in this day and hour behaves Zhukov: let the leaders fight, if they know how to do it, but me dismissed!
But wise cautious Guderian carries out the order without protesting. I love Guderian. I've had his books with me all my life. He was a clever man. But in addition to intelligence, a general needs character, will and courage. The memoirs of all German generals are imbued with the idea that Hitler was a fool and forced us to follow bad orders. That's exactly what happened. But the general only that becomes great and invincible, who does not follow bad orders. The bravery of a soldier is to go to the enemy's bayonets, to carry out the orders he has been given. And the bravery of a general is to think with his head and follow only those orders that lead to victory.
How often generals, politicians, historians of the West boast: we have a thinking soldier! And you have Ivan the fool, he is not trained to think.
Do you gentlemen have a thinking soldier? That's splendid. We have thinking generals, and they're brave too. They had the courage to have an opinion and to stand up for it. A German general would follow any order. And that's not strength. It's weakness. Our generals don't follow any order. That's strength!
If a general has a brilliant head, but follows idiotic orders from the Fuhrer, who leads the country to disaster, then the price of that brilliant head. What good is it? Such a head is good only for writing great memoirs after the war. But that head is of no use in war. If a general follows stupid orders, he's not a general, he's just a soldier.
It's an amazing thing. Stalin exterminated generals before the war, but still there were those who, like Apanasenko, like Zhukov, could, at the risk of their lives, to send in a known direction of the genius of all times and peoples.
The worst thing for a ruler is to find himself in a situation where everyone around him agrees, when everyone agrees with any decisions of the ruler and praises them. Any smartest person in this situation loses his orientation, any wise man loses the ability to notice his mistakes. Therefore he repeats them and multiplies them.
It was to this impasse that Hitler's personnel policy led him.
Hitler did not shoot his generals before the war, but for some reason they turned out to be intimidated to the point of complete soldiering....
Here is the benefit of purification: if Hitler had organized a night of long knives for his generals before the war, if he had shot several thousand German generals, then, look, after the purification and he would have at least a couple of generals who could not only think, but also object to the Fuhrer.
7
Apanasenko and Zhukov were not the only ones who could argue with Stalin. There were others as well. Army General K. K. Rokossovsky could argue not only with Stalin alone, but with Stalin and his entourage. Situation: May 1944, preparing the most powerful operation of World War II and all of human history - the Belarusian offensive. Stalin and his two deputies, Zhukov and Vasilevsky, have considered everything, weighed everything, planned everything. Now call one by one commanders of fronts and set them tasks. It's General Rokossovsky's turn. And Rokossovsky has his own decision, better than the decision of Stalin-Zhukov-Vasilevsky. But very unusual.
To argue with Stalin is a mortal risk. And here - not one Stalin, he is here with his closest aides and advisers. And all at the same time. But Army General Rokossovsky orders of three marshals - the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and his two deputies - do not intend to fulfill.
Well, the stubborn general is offered to go to another room and think about his behavior.
General Rokossovsky comes out. Thinking. There is something to think about. He has already been through the torture chambers, already sat on death row. Wouldn't want to do it again.
And here he is again summoned to Stalin's office and again set the task ...
But no. Rokossovsky will not perform such a task. Take him down. Put him in jail. Rip off his epaulettes. Send him to a penal battalion as a private. Execute him. He won't do it.
They ask him again to go out and think. He goes out again. He thinks again. It's possible not to risk it. It is possible to fulfill Stalin's and Zhukov's order. The outcome of the war has already been decided, it's only a question of the price and timing of victory. You can not resist, and then after Stalin's death to write memoirs: bad Stalin set bad tasks, and I had a solution in that situation, which Stalin did not understand and appreciated ....
Rokossovsky thinks for a long time. Have you thought about it? Come in. Well? Shall we carry out the Supreme Commander-in-Chief's order?
No. We won't.
Well, to hell with you! Do as you please.
8
And Rokossovsky acts. He acts brilliantly.
Lieutenant General Siegfried Westphal testifies: “During the summer and fall of 1944, the German army suffered the greatest defeat in its history, surpassing even Stalingrad. On June 22, the Russians went on the offensive on the front of Army Group Center..... This group of armies was destroyed. In connection with the defeat of Army Group “Center” in the Baltics, Army Group “North” was cut off” (Fateful Decisions. P. 257-258).
Colonel General Heinz Guderian testifies: “The defeat began on June 22. On the first day, 25 German divisions simply disappeared..... Not only Army Group “Center”, but also Army Group “North” fell into disaster” (Panzer Leader. S.352).
Major General W. von Mellenthin testifies: “On June 22, the Russians celebrated the third anniversary of our invasion of Russia with a grandiose offensive of four fronts consisting of 146 rifle divisions and 43 tank brigades .... For some inexplicable reason, Chester Wilmot, in his book “The Battle for Europe,” forgot this operation. And it was one of the most grandiose events of the war, in its scope and importance incomparably more important than the landing of the Allies in Normandy. From June 1 to August 31, 1944 the losses of German troops on the Western Front were 293,802 people on the Eastern Front for the same period - 916,860 people” (Panzer Battles, S. 339).
This is the moment in the war when the Western Allies expressed doubts about the accuracy of Soviet reports on the number of captured prisoners. And then the Supreme Director ordered the German prisoners to be shown to the whole world.
And powerful columns of German soldiers (not emaciated, from the camps, but fresh from the battlefields) were driven through the streets of Moscow. At the head of the columns - German generals and whole regiments of officers, behind them countless hordes of soldiers. The procession was closed by inactive for three years already, and here suddenly from all Moscow mobilized watering machines. During the years of war Moscow had gotten used to such luxury. Everything for the front, everything for victory. That's why gasoline is for the front. That is why Moscow streets had not been cleaned by cars and watered by cars for a long time. But for such an occasion the Supreme Director ordered to allocate gasoline from the inviolable reserve of the VGK Stavka. As for a combat operation. Stalin ordered to wash and clean Moscow streets following the columns of captured conquerors.
So that no dirt and stench of their soles remained on the streets of the capital.
And behind the columns the jets of cleansing made noise. And an endless string of new and new blue tanks with water, as if with new ammunition, were pulled up and lined up in a moving queue to immediately get into action, replacing their predecessors who had used up their ammunition.
Already on the second day of the Belorussian Offensive Operation, Stalin realized that Rokossovsky's decision was not just magnificent, but brilliant. A week after the start of the Belarusian Offensive Operation on June 29, 1944, Army General Rokossovsky received the diamond star of Marshal of the Soviet Union. But even this was not enough for Stalin, and on July 30, Marshal of the Soviet Union Rokossovsky received his first Gold Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union. Stalin did not give him the Gold Star either for Smolensk, or for Moscow, or for Stalingrad, or for Kursk. (Although he should have.) But the brilliance of Rokossovsky in the Belorussian operation (in spite of Stalin, Zhukov and Vasilevsky!) could not be overshadowed. He was a candidate to command the Victory Parade.
Rokossovsky during the preparation of the Belorussian offensive operation, during its conduct, in all other defensive and offensive operations - this is wisdom, initiative, bravery.
Marshal's Star - for the talent of a commander, for strategic breadth of thinking, for victories over Hitler and his field marshals.
The Hero's Star for personal soldierly bravery... in the face of Stalin's tiger fury.
This is heroism of the highest order.
Always, both at the beginning of the war, in the fateful summer and tragic fall of 1941, and in its victorious end, in the Red Army there were generals who had a head on their shoulders and enough courage in their hearts to defend their point of view even before Stalin.
Hitler had generals of very high selection, but Hitler did not have generals like Stalin at the beginning or end of the war.
Not one.
Germany lost because Stalin's generals stood immeasurably higher in terms of training than Hitler's generals.
Courage is one of the main components of that level.
Last edited:
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
Germany lost
Germany lost because of the flood of aid, first from the UK, then the USA. During the defense of Moscow, more than half the heavy tanks were British Valentines and Matilda’s. Without American aid, the Red Army would have had to rely on horse traction for most of its logistics needs. The offensives of 1944 and 1945 would have been impossible and the Red Army would have starved. American Lend-Lease foods like Spam fed it, American gasoline fueled the trucks and T-34s, American Av Gas fueled the Red Air Force, a good third of the Red Air Force’s combat aircraft were American or British as was the majority of it’s transport aircraft.
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