Greatest Athlete Ever

[G.T.]

I'd love to be able to watch the league in hi-def, full color back when Wilt played.

I also wish we could somehow stick players into different eras and test their meddle...see if they fared much differently. That'd be awesome.

 

[Asclepias]

Prime Jordan only existed with Scottie Pippen. I cant give MJ all the credit when he had another HOFer guarding the best player on the other team and directing the offense so MJ could rest.

I love Scottie Pippen and don't discount his efforts, and still was intuitive enough to see that MJ is the greatest when it came to will to win in the Finals. He had the skill and put it to work with a 100% NBA Finals success rate, series wise.

That's some shit LeBron was/is incapable of...and he can't erase that history now it's too late.

We arent talking will to win even if what you say is true. You cant measure someones will simply by looking at them. You measure that by being there to see every minute of work they put into becoming the best. We are talking about who is the greatest athlete. Lebron is by far MJ's superior when it comes to being an athlete.

No, you engaged me and my remarks on the topic at the time you engaged me were about the will to win.

Lebron has the best talent WITH size proportions we've ever seen and with the level of control he's had over choosing teammates he's lost more chips than he's won.

This game is all about x-factors, and I've seen a fully pussified Lebron when it matter most and his legacy was having all kinds of speculation at the time and he knew it and he admitted he felt the pressure.

And lost.

And so for that, he's out of GOAT contention on my list because his talent/size proportions didn't make up for the lack of will power.

No I just pointed out that the topic isnt about will to win. Its about greatest athlete. If youre talking will to win then you have no way of measuring that unless youre there to document the work that person puts in to be the best and the drive they display to make it so. I can have the will to pick up a one ton rock and work out constantly trying to achieve that goal. Are you saying that me never being able to pick up a rock that weighs one ton means I lack the will?

No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.

Thats fine. I am saying I disagree. I've only seen one time when Lebron failed to dominate and that was because of a deficiency in his game that Dallas exploited which is not his lack of will. As I pointed out the next year Lebron corrected that deficiency and won a ring. Thats some serious evidence of a will to win. Lebron went back and looked at film. Lebron spotted the shortcoming, worked on it, and turned it into a strength.

 

[G.T.]

Shaq had good footwork, but I agree, the key to him being a dominant player was his combination of size, speed, and strength

He didnt get his nice footwork until Akeem mentored him. Thats from Shaqs mouth, too

Foot work isnt the only skill Shaq had. He could pass and surprisingly he could dribble.

Couldn’t make a free throw if his life depended on it

True. Never could figure out what was the issue with that. I thought it was his hands being too big but Kwahis hands look about the same size.

Hands too big is the dumbest excuse. Look at Jordan. He hand enormous hands. Shaq never practiced. That’s why he never could hit his free throws

I think it was because he's uncoordinated.

When my friends and I used to lower the hoops in middle school and all play center, for fun games with dunking and mini-ball and crap, - literally all of our post moves were more athletic/more finesse than Shaq's.

He's just a paint clearing fucking beast. But hey, he was born with it. It's his.

 

[Asclepias]

Shaq had good footwork, but I agree, the key to him being a dominant player was his combination of size, speed, and strength

He didnt get his nice footwork until Akeem mentored him. Thats from Shaqs mouth, too

Foot work isnt the only skill Shaq had. He could pass and surprisingly he could dribble.

Couldn’t make a free throw if his life depended on it

True. Never could figure out what was the issue with that. I thought it was his hands being too big but Kwahis hands look about the same size.

Hands too big is the dumbest excuse. Look at Jordan. He hand enormous hands. Shaq never practiced. That’s why he never could hit his free throws

You sound like an idiot. Shaq practiced free throws all the time. He admitted it was the pressure.

 

[G.T.]

I love Scottie Pippen and don't discount his efforts, and still was intuitive enough to see that MJ is the greatest when it came to will to win in the Finals. He had the skill and put it to work with a 100% NBA Finals success rate, series wise.

That's some shit LeBron was/is incapable of...and he can't erase that history now it's too late.

We arent talking will to win even if what you say is true. You cant measure someones will simply by looking at them. You measure that by being there to see every minute of work they put into becoming the best. We are talking about who is the greatest athlete. Lebron is by far MJ's superior when it comes to being an athlete.

No, you engaged me and my remarks on the topic at the time you engaged me were about the will to win.

Lebron has the best talent WITH size proportions we've ever seen and with the level of control he's had over choosing teammates he's lost more chips than he's won.

This game is all about x-factors, and I've seen a fully pussified Lebron when it matter most and his legacy was having all kinds of speculation at the time and he knew it and he admitted he felt the pressure.

And lost.

And so for that, he's out of GOAT contention on my list because his talent/size proportions didn't make up for the lack of will power.

No I just pointed out that the topic isnt about will to win. Its about greatest athlete. If youre talking will to win then you have no way of measuring that unless youre there to document the work that person puts in to be the best and the drive they display to make it so. I can have the will to pick up a one ton rock and work out constantly trying to achieve that goal. Are you saying that me never being able to pick up a rock that weighs one ton means I lack the will?

No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.

Thats fine. I am saying I disagree. I've only seen one time when Lebron failed to dominate and that was because of a deficiency in his game that Dallas exploited which is not his lack of will. As I pointed out the next year Lebron corrected that deficiency and won a ring. Thats some serious evidence of a will to win. Lebron went back and looked at film. Lebron spotted the shortcoming, worked on it, and turned it into a strength.

Yeah, he turned it into a 1-peat after making what was considered a stacked team at the time.

Funny thing about the nba now, too...is that that Miami team isn't so grossly stacked anymore by our new standard

 

[Asclepias]

We arent talking will to win even if what you say is true. You cant measure someones will simply by looking at them. You measure that by being there to see every minute of work they put into becoming the best. We are talking about who is the greatest athlete. Lebron is by far MJ's superior when it comes to being an athlete.

No, you engaged me and my remarks on the topic at the time you engaged me were about the will to win.

Lebron has the best talent WITH size proportions we've ever seen and with the level of control he's had over choosing teammates he's lost more chips than he's won.

This game is all about x-factors, and I've seen a fully pussified Lebron when it matter most and his legacy was having all kinds of speculation at the time and he knew it and he admitted he felt the pressure.

And lost.

And so for that, he's out of GOAT contention on my list because his talent/size proportions didn't make up for the lack of will power.

No I just pointed out that the topic isnt about will to win. Its about greatest athlete. If youre talking will to win then you have no way of measuring that unless youre there to document the work that person puts in to be the best and the drive they display to make it so. I can have the will to pick up a one ton rock and work out constantly trying to achieve that goal. Are you saying that me never being able to pick up a rock that weighs one ton means I lack the will?

No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.

Thats fine. I am saying I disagree. I've only seen one time when Lebron failed to dominate and that was because of a deficiency in his game that Dallas exploited which is not his lack of will. As I pointed out the next year Lebron corrected that deficiency and won a ring. Thats some serious evidence of a will to win. Lebron went back and looked at film. Lebron spotted the shortcoming, worked on it, and turned it into a strength.

Yeah, he turned it into a 1-peat after making what was considered a stacked team at the time.

Funny thing about the nba now, too...is that Miami team isn't so grossly stacked anymore by our new standard

Like we pointed out there are many players that had the will but dont even have a 1 peat.

Whats even funnier is everyone acting as if that was the first time a team was stacked.

 

[G.T.]

If a new era of big men came about, it might make me follow the League again.

Big Men were never my favorite part of the game, but looking back - the paradigm they created made the game more fun to watch...the game was more diverse.

Maybe if some new SPEED guy, not forward/size guy, came about that was amazing to watch like when Allen Iverson was new...it could draw me back in.

 

[G.T.]

No, you engaged me and my remarks on the topic at the time you engaged me were about the will to win.

Lebron has the best talent WITH size proportions we've ever seen and with the level of control he's had over choosing teammates he's lost more chips than he's won.

This game is all about x-factors, and I've seen a fully pussified Lebron when it matter most and his legacy was having all kinds of speculation at the time and he knew it and he admitted he felt the pressure.

And lost.

And so for that, he's out of GOAT contention on my list because his talent/size proportions didn't make up for the lack of will power.

No I just pointed out that the topic isnt about will to win. Its about greatest athlete. If youre talking will to win then you have no way of measuring that unless youre there to document the work that person puts in to be the best and the drive they display to make it so. I can have the will to pick up a one ton rock and work out constantly trying to achieve that goal. Are you saying that me never being able to pick up a rock that weighs one ton means I lack the will?

No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.

Thats fine. I am saying I disagree. I've only seen one time when Lebron failed to dominate and that was because of a deficiency in his game that Dallas exploited which is not his lack of will. As I pointed out the next year Lebron corrected that deficiency and won a ring. Thats some serious evidence of a will to win. Lebron went back and looked at film. Lebron spotted the shortcoming, worked on it, and turned it into a strength.

Yeah, he turned it into a 1-peat after making what was considered a stacked team at the time.

Funny thing about the nba now, too...is that Miami team isn't so grossly stacked anymore by our new standard

Like we pointed out there are many players that had the will but dont even have a 1 peat.

Whats even funnier is everyone acting as if that was the first time a team was stacked.

That's my entire point.

The other guys who "only 1 peated" or even less...weren't blessed with the greatest size/talent combo like Lebron was...and because of what I personally consider his lack of balls - he's right where they are, but with great stats.

 

[Asclepias]

No I just pointed out that the topic isnt about will to win. Its about greatest athlete. If youre talking will to win then you have no way of measuring that unless youre there to document the work that person puts in to be the best and the drive they display to make it so. I can have the will to pick up a one ton rock and work out constantly trying to achieve that goal. Are you saying that me never being able to pick up a rock that weighs one ton means I lack the will?

No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.

Thats fine. I am saying I disagree. I've only seen one time when Lebron failed to dominate and that was because of a deficiency in his game that Dallas exploited which is not his lack of will. As I pointed out the next year Lebron corrected that deficiency and won a ring. Thats some serious evidence of a will to win. Lebron went back and looked at film. Lebron spotted the shortcoming, worked on it, and turned it into a strength.

Yeah, he turned it into a 1-peat after making what was considered a stacked team at the time.

Funny thing about the nba now, too...is that Miami team isn't so grossly stacked anymore by our new standard

Like we pointed out there are many players that had the will but dont even have a 1 peat.

Whats even funnier is everyone acting as if that was the first time a team was stacked.

That's my entire point.

The other guys who "only 1 peated" or even less...weren't blessed with the greatest size/talent combo like Lebron was...and because of what I personally consider his lack of balls - he's right where they are, but with great stats.

But Lebron isnt right were they are. Hes won multiple championships and with different teams while the players we pointed out have none.

 

[Asclepias]

If a new era of big men came about, it might make me follow the League again.

Big Men were never my favorite part of the game, but looking back - the paradigm they created made the game more fun to watch...the game was more diverse.

Maybe if some new SPEED guy, not forward/size guy, came about that was amazing to watch like when Allen Iverson was new...it could draw me back in.

The game always evolves. Thats what makes it great to watch. The next thing is going to be 7 footers playing on the wing. Wait thats already happening!

 

[G.T.]

No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.

Thats fine. I am saying I disagree. I've only seen one time when Lebron failed to dominate and that was because of a deficiency in his game that Dallas exploited which is not his lack of will. As I pointed out the next year Lebron corrected that deficiency and won a ring. Thats some serious evidence of a will to win. Lebron went back and looked at film. Lebron spotted the shortcoming, worked on it, and turned it into a strength.

Yeah, he turned it into a 1-peat after making what was considered a stacked team at the time.

Funny thing about the nba now, too...is that Miami team isn't so grossly stacked anymore by our new standard

Like we pointed out there are many players that had the will but dont even have a 1 peat.

Whats even funnier is everyone acting as if that was the first time a team was stacked.

That's my entire point.

The other guys who "only 1 peated" or even less...weren't blessed with the greatest size/talent combo like Lebron was...and because of what I personally consider his lack of balls - he's right where they are, but with great stats.

But Lebron isnt right were they are. Hes won multiple championships and with different teams while the players we pointed out have none.

He's been swept twice in the Finals, and his Championship completion record is what's being called (by me) into question. 3 and 6 - and I can see why he's made it 9 times because the East has been literally dog-shit.

 

[G.T.]

If a new era of big men came about, it might make me follow the League again.

Big Men were never my favorite part of the game, but looking back - the paradigm they created made the game more fun to watch...the game was more diverse.

Maybe if some new SPEED guy, not forward/size guy, came about that was amazing to watch like when Allen Iverson was new...it could draw me back in.

The game always evolves. Thats what makes it great to watch. The next thing is going to be 7 footers playing on the wing. Wait thats already happening!

It's happening but it's still anomalous when it does. I'll be interested in next year's showing because I liked the draft this time around.

 

[Asclepias]

If a new era of big men came about, it might make me follow the League again.

Big Men were never my favorite part of the game, but looking back - the paradigm they created made the game more fun to watch...the game was more diverse.

Maybe if some new SPEED guy, not forward/size guy, came about that was amazing to watch like when Allen Iverson was new...it could draw me back in.

The game always evolves. Thats what makes it great to watch. The next thing is going to be 7 footers playing on the wing. Wait thats already happening!

It's happening but it's still anomalous when it does. I'll be interested in next year's showing because I liked the draft this time around.

Zion may single handedly swing the pendulum back to big guys. Right now I dont anyone slowing him down unless they have some weight on them.

 

[G.T.]

Here's a stat that interests me by fivethirtyeight.com

In terms of odds, LeBron was expected to win 2.8 of his 9 Finals.

He won 3. About even with expectation.

Jordan was expected to win 4.1 - and won 6. Outta 6.

They did this stat for a number of other greats, too...pretty interesting stat. Not all that meaningful, but interesting.

Jordan/Pippen defied their odds by the highest margin on the list...winning 1.9 more rings than statistically expected.

 

[Asclepias]

Here's a stat that interests me by fivethirtyeight.com

In terms of odds, LeBron was expected to win 2.8 of his 9 Finals.

He won 3. About even with expectation.

Jordan was expected to win 4.1 - and won 6. Outta 6.

They did this stat for a number of other greats, too...pretty interesting stat. Not all that meaningful, but interesting.

Jordan/Pippen defied their odds by the highest margin on the list...winning 1.9 more rings than statistically expected.

Jordan and Pippen are probably the greatest duo the NBA has ever seen on both ends of the court. I'm not surprised at all with that stat.

 

[G.T.]

Here's a stat that interests me by fivethirtyeight.com

In terms of odds, LeBron was expected to win 2.8 of his 9 Finals.

He won 3. About even with expectation.

Jordan was expected to win 4.1 - and won 6. Outta 6.

They did this stat for a number of other greats, too...pretty interesting stat. Not all that meaningful, but interesting.

Jordan/Pippen defied their odds by the highest margin on the list...winning 1.9 more rings than statistically expected.

Jordan and Pippen are probably the greatest duo the NBA has ever seen on both ends of the court. I'm not surprised at all with that stat.

I closed the page now, but Magic had like 4 expected and 5 wins...Kareem, too...

And Steph Curry won 0.2 less than (statistically) expected. But the rings dont come in fractions, lol - they just had to use funky division because the odds worked out that way

 

[G.T.]

Now that I'm exhausted of being a Lebron Hater - can we talk about getting steroids back into baseball

who didnt secretly love that mcgwire / sosa stuff at the time, come on!

 

[SandSquid]

Prime Jordan only existed with Scottie Pippen. I cant give MJ all the credit when he had another HOFer guarding the best player on the other team and directing the offense so MJ could rest.

I love Scottie Pippen and don't discount his efforts, and still was intuitive enough to see that MJ is the greatest when it came to will to win in the Finals. He had the skill and put it to work with a 100% NBA Finals success rate, series wise.

That's some shit LeBron was/is incapable of...and he can't erase that history now it's too late.

We arent talking will to win even if what you say is true. You cant measure someones will simply by looking at them. You measure that by being there to see every minute of work they put into becoming the best. We are talking about who is the greatest athlete. Lebron is by far MJ's superior when it comes to being an athlete.

No, you engaged me and my remarks on the topic at the time you engaged me were about the will to win.

Lebron has the best talent WITH size proportions we've ever seen and with the level of control he's had over choosing teammates he's lost more chips than he's won.

This game is all about x-factors, and I've seen a fully pussified Lebron when it matter most and his legacy was having all kinds of speculation at the time and he knew it and he admitted he felt the pressure.

And lost.

And so for that, he's out of GOAT contention on my list because his talent/size proportions didn't make up for the lack of will power.

No I just pointed out that the topic isnt about will to win. Its about greatest athlete. If youre talking will to win then you have no way of measuring that unless youre there to document the work that person puts in to be the best and the drive they display to make it so. I can have the will to pick up a one ton rock and work out constantly trying to achieve that goal. Are you saying that me never being able to pick up a rock that weighs one ton means I lack the will?

No, I'm saying that in the NBA - the player that's considered having the most dominant size and talent combo fails to dominate, often, when it's time for the Chip to fall at the end of the season.

That's literally all I'm saying - and any and everyone is free to disagree with me and I'm comfy about it. I've seen him give up with my own two...you require him to say "I give up" verbatim to intuit that he gave up. We have very different standards in that regard. It''s quite alright, by me.

He didnt get his nice footwork until Akeem mentored him. Thats from Shaqs mouth, too

Foot work isnt the only skill Shaq had. He could pass and surprisingly he could dribble.

Couldn’t make a free throw if his life depended on it

True. Never could figure out what was the issue with that. I thought it was his hands being too big but Kwahis hands look about the same size.

Hands too big is the dumbest excuse. Look at Jordan. He hand enormous hands. Shaq never practiced. That’s why he never could hit his free throws

I think it was because he's uncoordinated.

When my friends and I used to lower the hoops in middle school and all play center, for fun games with dunking and mini-ball and crap, - literally all of our post moves were more athletic/more finesse than Shaq's.

He's just a paint clearing fucking beast. But hey, he was born with it. It's his.

Shaq had insane coordination for a guy his size. Remember those magic years, when he'd blow by Robinson and take guys off the dribble. When he'd go coast to coast and outrun guards on the floor.



a lot of people forget how athletic young shaq was.

 

[SandSquid]

Now that I'm exhausted of being a Lebron Hater - can we talk about getting steroids back into baseball

who didnt secretly love that mcgwire / sosa stuff at the time, come on!

hahaha. I am not a big baseball fan. I grew up around Miami, and we had the Marlins start up. Started following them a bit even though it was slower than I liked, won a championship, then EVERYONE I liked watching was gone. So I stopped watching till I moved to Colorado. As a part time fan, the Blake Street Bombers winning 13-10 was a blast. Then came humidors and banning steroids. And yes I was watching for Sosa and McGwire on Sportscenter.

 

[rightwinger]

Shaq literally went just because he was big.

So did Bol and a whole host of other giants.

Shaq had good footwork, but I agree, the key to him being a dominant player was his combination of size, speed, and strength

He didnt get his nice footwork until Akeem mentored him. Thats from Shaqs mouth, too

Foot work isnt the only skill Shaq had. He could pass and surprisingly he could dribble.

Couldn’t make a free throw if his life depended on it

True. Never could figure out what was the issue with that. I thought it was his hands being too big but Kwahis hands look about the same size.

Chamberlain could make free throws either. Resorted to a Rick Barry style