Gray Dawn: Green Bulbs, Black Hole...

[paulitician]

How bout letting the Consumers/Citizens decide which light bulbs they prefer? Now there's a novel idea huh? How bout the Government just get off our backs?

how about you pick your battles better? Light Bulbs??? C'mon. Not every issue is a line in the sand.

Where does it end? You have to take a stand on issues like this. Because Big Government is only getting bigger & bigger. Banning light bulbs is as Un-American as it gets. It may seem like a minor issue but it's not.

 

[Si modo]

So... you're telling me if, theoretically...we all drove Priuses that CONSUMPTION wouldn't decrease and Gas would be more plentiful and in turn(by the laws of supply and demand) also go down? I don't drive a Prius, BTW... i just used it as the most economical car that is a proven entity... I'd go with the Volt, but it isn't there yet.

No. I'm telling you that your stupidity negatively affects me. And, in the spirit of those who want laws simply because they want to prohibit the actions of another because they are negatively affected by those actions, let's make a law against your stupidity.

We are ALL affected (negatively and positively) by the actions of others. That's life. We make laws to PROTECT rights and PREVENT infringement on rights.

Do we? Where's the laws that prevented millions of people losing their jobs to outsourcing... oh.. that's right... no one has a right to a job... only Suburbans.

Damn, you really HAVE gone over the edge!



Who said no one has a right to a job? I asked you that before, Dodge.

 

[paulitician]

Just leave my damn light bulbs alone. Much bigger problems to worry about. Problems Like Big Government destroying our nation. $16 bleepin Trillion in Debt and they're banning light bulbs. My God,what a bizarre freak-show.

 

[Steelplate]

No. I'm telling you that your stupidity negatively affects me. And, in the spirit of those who want laws simply because they want to prohibit the actions of another because they are negatively affected by those actions, let's make a law against your stupidity.

We are ALL affected (negatively and positively) by the actions of others. That's life. We make laws to PROTECT rights and PREVENT infringement on rights.

Do we? Where's the laws that prevented millions of people losing their jobs to outsourcing... oh.. that's right... no one has a right to a job... only Suburbans.

Damn, you really HAVE gone over the edge!



Who said no one has a right to a job? I asked you that before, Dodge.

That's what I've been hearing... Ask Diamond Dave.

 

[Si modo]

Do we? Where's the laws that prevented millions of people losing their jobs to outsourcing... oh.. that's right... no one has a right to a job... only Suburbans.

Damn, you really HAVE gone over the edge!



Who said no one has a right to a job? I asked you that before, Dodge.

That's what I've been hearing... Ask Diamond Dave.

I am asking YOU because you keep saying it. So, who said "no one has a right to a job"?

 

[martybegan]

yep... I do. You are right. That would be silly to ban vacations... Ok let me rephrase that..

You see, the problem is that you can't see that CONSUMPTION of resources drives up the cost for everyone. I'll tell you what... you can have your SUV... but you should pay a higher cost for fuel. Why should I subsidize your excess?

If I had an SUV I would be paying more per gallon anyway, as I use more gas. You wouldnt be subsidizing anything, as I paid for what I used, and I paid more per mile.

Ahhh... but your excessive CONSUMPTION causes my price/gallon to rise.... so, you should pay a higher amount/gallon too.

Or the consumption could cause additonal refineries to be in service, increasing overall supply, thus LOWERING prices. If you start lowering consumption, the less efficent refineries will close, decreasing supply, probably faster than decreasing demand, thus RAISING PRICES.

In the end, stop caring about other peoples cars and do your own part for the environment without being jealous of the guy with the F150.

 

[Mr Natural]

If I had an SUV I would be paying more per gallon anyway, as I use more gas. You wouldnt be subsidizing anything, as I paid for what I used, and I paid more per mile.

Ahhh... but your excessive CONSUMPTION causes my price/gallon to rise.... so, you should pay a higher amount/gallon too.

Or the consumption could cause additonal refineries to be in service, increasing overall supply, thus LOWERING prices. If you start lowering consumption, the less efficent refineries will close, decreasing supply, probably faster than decreasing demand, thus RAISING PRICES.

In the end, stop caring about other peoples cars and do your own part for the environment without being jealous of the guy with the F150.

So if demand goes up, prices will come down?

Interesting spin.

 

[martybegan]

Ahhh... but your excessive CONSUMPTION causes my price/gallon to rise.... so, you should pay a higher amount/gallon too.

Or the consumption could cause additonal refineries to be in service, increasing overall supply, thus LOWERING prices. If you start lowering consumption, the less efficent refineries will close, decreasing supply, probably faster than decreasing demand, thus RAISING PRICES.

In the end, stop caring about other peoples cars and do your own part for the environment without being jealous of the guy with the F150.

So if demand goes up, prices will come down?

Interesting spin.

If the demand leads to creation of further supply, price can come down once said supply is online. You can end up with prices lower than before due to economies of scale, also when it comes to things like refineries newer ones are almost always more efficent, and often have newer process such as catalytic cracking.

My point was that the market is set up for the current level of demand. if you suddenly lower the demand, then for oil, it usually means shuttering refineries, or at least parts of them. This leads to loss of supply, which could overshoot, thus raising prices, even though demand is down.

 

[paulitician]

"Liberalism,ideas so good they have to be madatory." - Andrew Wilkow

Man,that quote really is so accurate. If their ideas are so great,why do they have to force Citizens to go along? I think more Americans need to think about that a bit more.

 

[The Gadfly]

Wow... you guys are really bought and sold, aren't you? Funny... no one has a right to a job that supports a family... but we have a damned right to drive our Suburbans and our Hummers... fuckin' sheep.

Who said no one has a right to a job that supports a family?

Who said that?

With respect to your second 'point', was this you?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JPZskYKUvY]When a Prius owner confronts a pickup driver - YouTube[/ame]

Take a good, long look at the creature in this video. This is a liberal. This particular specimen is a pig, or more specifically, a sow. Note the beady eyes and the foul mouth. As you can readily observe from its voice and demeanor, it has no concept of that thing called "manners". It is a most irascible creature, with mindless passions easily inflamed by actions of others which should not concern it in the least; as you can see in this example, this produces a veritable emotional frenzy, when anything or anyone does ANYTHING the creature disapproves of. Interestingly, despite its low intelligence(as evidenced by its limited vocabulary), and complete lack of civility, note that it fancies itself intellectually and morally superior.

Specimens of this particular sort can often be found in their natural habitat, deep in the bowels of the federal bureaucracy, where they use their limited functionality to think of more mindless and utterly pointless regulations with which to annoy the rest of us. Unfortunately, they are a protected species; current law forbids the eradication of these pests, which otherwise would soon become an endangered species. In consequence, the rest of us are forced to put up with their depredations; a pity, as they have an annoying tendency to spoil anything they touch.

This, fellow conservatives, is the face of the enemy. I know it is an ugly thing, but keep its repulsive image in mind in the coming year, as we rally all who oppose this sort of thing in a maximum effort to unite behind some candidate, any candidate, who can defeat Obama and his Leftist horde. Remember, we must not fail, else that repulsive thing, or one like it, will be regulating yet another aspect of YOUR life!

 

[JDzBrain]

So if demand goes up, prices will come down?

Interesting spin.

Ok, just a little economics common sense here. Demand ONLY drives up price when supply don't meet it...PERIOD!

SUVs don't have a DAMN thing to do with the price of gasoline!

Government regulations that have required 35 different boutique blends, ethanol standards, drilling restrictions, refinery capacity suppression...and a dozen other offenses all designed to, as Obama says, "...necessarily cause the cost to skyrocket" in order to FORCE the price of gas up so that electric and hybrid cars can compete is why the prices have doubled since he took office!

As a matter of fact, in a FREE market, as demand goes up, prices come down. Computers, flat screen TVs, Game Boys, solar lawn lights, cell phones...EVERYTHING that the government doesn't regulate the competition out of goes down!

I figure most of you are too young to remember the "K cars" Chrysler came out with or "hatchback" Mustangs. Some of the WORST automobiles ever conceived from the mind of man were a direct result of this EXACT SAME INSANITY being conducted by Jimmy Carter when he decided to create an artificial gas shortage cause he thought we were to dependent on foreign oil.

Oh, we got more fuel efficient cars all right, but it damn near...damn near nothing...it KILLED the US auto manufacturing business for good. Sure they were struggling before that...MOSTLY due to government regulations....but ol' Jimmy killed it DEAD!

Till that time, Detroit was the center of the auto universe. We DOMINATED the world auto market. 15 MILLION a year by the big 3 alone in the 70's. Last year, Less than 8 million TOTAL produced in the US.

Now...Detroit is a arm pit and the majority of the cars made in this country are assembled from parts made in China or Canada and they send the profits back to Japan or Germany.

Oh, and just for the record...Carter and the liberals said the same dumb crap about more drilling here wouldn't make a difference for at least 15 years....30 years ago!!!

It was a DUMB ASS argument then and it still is!

THAT is what happens when the government gets in the business of business and social engineering.

Just like with ethanol or these fool light bulbs, Thomas Jefferson said it best, "It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."

Oh, and for the "it's my right" crowd. You have a right to the equal opportunity to TRY and get a job. Just like you have an equal opportunity to TRY and afford a Hummer. Whether or not you do is up to YOU. Nobody OWES you squat!

 

[paulitician]

They came for the light bulbs,but you said nothing. They came for the Internet,but you said nothing. Who will be left to speak up for you when they come for you?

 

[G.T.]

They came for the light bulbs,but you said nothing. They came for the Internet,but you said nothing. Who will be left to speak up for you when they come for you?

yesterdays news, queertard.


starving for your daily attention?

 

[Triton]

I replaced all my light bulbs with the CFL's 4 years ago because they are supposed to give off a better quality of light and save you money.

Now, obviously this is just a single non scientific personal anecdote but I noticed no difference in my electric bills and the lighting was actually a little worse. If anything I lost money because these bulbs are more expensive than the traditional ones

Once I realized they were full of mercury and had one break on me I ditched them for good.


So, basically what i'm trying to say is these lightbulbs suck making the ban even more ridiculous.



I'm going to try replacing everything with LED when the prices come down. I'm hoping I can get out of the LED's what I was looking for with the CFL's.

 

[paulitician]

I replaced all my light bulbs with the CFL's 4 years ago because they are supposed to give off a better quality of light and save you money.

Now, obviously this is just a single non scientific personal anecdote but I noticed no difference in my electric bills and the lighting was actually a little worse. If anything I lost money because these bulbs are more expensive than the traditional ones

Once I realized they were full of mercury and had one break on me I ditched them for good.


So, basically what i'm trying to say is these lightbulbs suck making the ban even more ridiculous.



I'm going to try replacing everything with LED when the prices come down. I'm hoping I can get out of the LED's what I was looking for with the CFL's.

Makes you think of that very wise saying..."Liberalism,ideas so good they have to be mandatory." This is just another one of their "good" ideas.

 

[Steelplate]

The amount of mercury in one CFL is 5 mg, and that was for the first generation CFL's... most are down to 2mg and a few boast only 1mg. All but 11% of those numbers get bound to the inside of the glass as it is used. the remaining 11% can be released on breakage or if disposed in a landfill.

Compare that to an old thermometer which had..500mg of mercury in them... AND they average a savings of 4.3mg of mercury emissions/light bulb in energy generation.

Methinks it's a big to do about nothing.

 

[JDzBrain]

The amount of mercury in one CFL is 5 mg, and that was for the first generation CFL's... most are down to 2mg and a few boast only 1mg. All but 11% of those numbers get bound to the inside of the glass as it is used. the remaining 11% can be released on breakage or if disposed in a landfill.

Compare that to an old thermometer which had..500mg of mercury in them... AND they average a savings of 4.3mg of mercury emissions/light bulb in energy generation.

Methinks it's a big to do about nothing.

That's all true Steel, but here's the thing. Almost no one uses mercury in thermometers anymore. ONLY in specialty thermometers.

The compact florescent light bulbs, on the other hand, are out there in the BILLIONS!

So although the amount per individual unit may be 1/100 of the amount in a thermometer, there are MILLIONS of more times (1,000,000,000/1) individual units going into our landfills than all the mercury from thermometers...or any other source.

And by the way, the 89% that you rightly point out is bonded to the glass is not permanently bound to the glass. The minute the glass is broken, those bonds begin to decompose and the mercury WILL begin to release back into the environment!

So it is NOT much to do about nothing.

Don't get me wrong here. I like the fact that these bulbs last 10 or 20 times longer than an incandescent bulb. Ain't nothin' I hate worse that that snapping sound of an incandescent blowing in a hard to reach fixture. ;~)

The problem I have is that there is an incandescent bulb that has burning in a fire station in California....CONTINUOUSLY since like 1901!

So longer life is NOT a legitimate consideration for changing to CFLs. Incandescent bulbs could be made to last even longer than CFLs.

If protecting the ecology of the planet is the excuse for switching...CFLs are WORSE for the environment than the high efficiency power generation plants we use to make the electricity that power our lights....BY A COUNTRY MILE.

And while some people like the light florescent fixtures produce, there are millions who are sensitive to the spectrum they emit and suffer symptoms that include everything from skin disease and hair loss to migraines and even severe depression.

As a matter of fact, SEVERAL studies done over the years have shown that florescent lights in the work place where no natural or other light reaches reduces production, increases loss time due to illness and even a higher incident of suicide and work place violence.

The ONLY thing these dumb ass regulations have done is to make tree hugers and the gullible feel good.

So, again...I quote Thomas Jefferson. "It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."

LOVE that guy! ;~)

 

[paulitician]

The amount of mercury in one CFL is 5 mg, and that was for the first generation CFL's... most are down to 2mg and a few boast only 1mg. All but 11% of those numbers get bound to the inside of the glass as it is used. the remaining 11% can be released on breakage or if disposed in a landfill.

Compare that to an old thermometer which had..500mg of mercury in them... AND they average a savings of 4.3mg of mercury emissions/light bulb in energy generation.

Methinks it's a big to do about nothing.

That's all true Steel, but here's the thing. Almost no one uses mercury in thermometers anymore. ONLY in specialty thermometers.

The compact florescent light bulbs, on the other hand, are out there in the BILLIONS!

So although the amount per individual unit may be 1/100 of the amount in a thermometer, there are MILLIONS of more times (1,000,000,000/1) individual units going into our landfills than all the mercury from thermometers...or any other source.

And by the way, the 89% that you rightly point out is bonded to the glass is not permanently bound to the glass. The minute the glass is broken, those bonds begin to decompose and the mercury WILL begin to release back into the environment!

So it is NOT much to do about nothing.

Don't get me wrong here. I like the fact that these bulbs last 10 or 20 times longer than an incandescent bulb. Ain't nothin' I hate worse that that snapping sound of an incandescent blowing in a hard to reach fixture. ;~)

The problem I have is that there is an incandescent bulb that has burning in a fire station in California....CONTINUOUSLY since like 1901!

So longer life is NOT a legitimate consideration for changing to CFLs. Incandescent bulbs could be made to last even longer than CFLs.

If protecting the ecology of the planet is the excuse for switching...CFLs are WORSE for the environment than the high efficiency power generation plants we use to make the electricity that power our lights....BY A COUNTRY MILE.

And while some people like the light florescent fixtures produce, there are millions who are sensitive to the spectrum they emit and suffer symptoms that include everything from skin disease and hair loss to migraines and even severe depression.

As a matter of fact, SEVERAL studies done over the years have shown that florescent lights in the work place where no natural or other light reaches reduces production, increases loss time due to illness and even a higher incident of suicide and work place violence.

The ONLY thing these dumb ass regulations have done is to make tree hugers and the gullible feel good.

So, again...I quote Thomas Jefferson. "It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."

LOVE that guy! ;~)

Very well stated. Thanks.