Grave Parallels Between de Gualle And Chirac

[NATO AIR]

I came across this while skimming Fareed Zakaria (editor of Newsweek Int'l and the brightest young foreign affairs analyst in the world, bar none).

Padisha, Ali and all the other folks who want to know why we have problems with France should take note. See how de Gualle acts compared to Chirac.

The French, who are today the most disbelieving, played a special role in the 1962 crisis. After deciding to blockade Cuba, President Kennedy sent a special envoy, Dean Acheson, to France's President Charles de Gaulle. Acheson offered to show him the photographs. De Gaulle refused. "This is mere evidence," he said, "and great nations such as yours would not take a serious step if there were any doubt about evidence." What we have today is not the lack of evidence, it's the lack of trust.

so my question is, why did this lack of trust occur? When did America so badly mislead or lie to the French to cause this massive drop in trust between 1962 and 2004? After all, you lied to us about selling weapons to Iraq, about making money off the oil for food scandal, and countless other issues. When did we lie to you?

 

[Ali]

I came across this while skimming Fareed Zakaria (editor of Newsweek Int'l and the brightest young foreign affairs analyst in the world, bar none).

Padisha, Ali and all the other folks who want to know why we have problems with France should take note. See how de Gualle acts compared to Chirac.

so my question is, why did this lack of trust occur? When did America so badly mislead or lie to the French to cause this massive drop in trust between 1962 and 2004? After all, you lied to us about selling weapons to Iraq, about making money off the oil for food scandal, and countless other issues. When did we lie to you?

hey

read my fingers

THE PAST IS OVER.
Why are we expected to forget the past (like Ronny and Rummy), while you guys go on and on about things which don't matter any more.

De Gaulle trusted the US because they hadn't done all the shitty things you've done since WWII.

NOBODY in the world trusts or even likes the US any more. You've managed to piss of nearly every nation on this globe and are continuing to make more and more enemies everywhere, especially in countries, like the UK, which you think are your friends. You will see how much you are liked come the next UK elections. Blair is behind the Social Democrats! Even UKIP is beating Labour's ass in areas they used to dominate.
The war in Iraq is hugely unpopular in Britain, but I doubt you know that, seeing as you didn't even know about the effects of the 45 minutes scandal on Tony Blair's political career!

Why are you telling Taiwan to aim missiles (which you sold them) at the Three Gorges Dam! Why are you fucking with the Chinese? Why did you not apologise to them when one of your spy planes got knocked down? You said you were sorry that your plane went down, not that it was in Chinese airspace, in the first place. I don't think that this was quite the answer you Why does your current administration think it can ignore internationally-agreed treaties, like Kyoto, when the rest of the world agreed; tearing up arms limitation agreements and laughing at anyone who tried to tell you that wasn't cool?

Why do you not see that having a president whose Daddy has (had?) an oil services company, and a vice president who was CEO of a major oil-industry-related company and who is still a major shareholder; when the majority of Bush's campaign funds comes from oil-related donors. Why does this not make the rest of the world think that the fact that you invaded Iraq was because you wanted to control the oil supply?

I know that you think this all this power is great and that watching GI's kicking Iraqi ass on Fox makes you think that your country is the mightiest and the best and that you are invincible... but how long can you continue to fight? I understand you are still pissed about 9/11. I was too. It was the single most shocking thing I have ever witnessed and I could not believe it was actually happening. I wept for the people I saw jumping to their deaths and for everybody else who died that day. But lashing out blindly at Afghanistan, in pain and rage was a mistake. It was exactly what the perpetrators wanted you to do. Whoever planned and executed it knew what you would do next. The UN helped you to eject the Taliban from Afghanistan and we thought you'd be satisfied, but it was just the beginning. Afghanistan was barely under control when you started demanding we attack Iraq, a country that had no proven ties with Al Queda and no current WMD manufacturing program. Now you want to attack Iran and are already starting the old "they're building a bomb" chicken little stylee rhetoric.

Will you stop when you get OBL? Why haven't you managed to find him? You are somewhat better-equipped than he is. You have satellites which can read the lettering on the side of an AK-47 and yet he remains At Large. Why is that? Has it ever occured to you that he might be the Boogie Man, or whatever terrible monster it was that your parents might have made up to scare you into doing what they wanted? Without him you don't really have a reason to continue wreaking vengeance on the Arab World for 9/11. Maybe that's why he's managed to disappear.

You can't maintain this. Your deficit is reaching unbelievable levels. You buy far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more than you sell. You've deliberately devalued your currency and it's still huge. You are making yourselves more and more vulnerable to collapse and if you carry on fighting unsustainable wars in the Middle East, it will. And if the US economy collapses (again, remember the Great Depression) then we all feel the pinch.

Your Ivory Towers are rotting and crumbling at the base. Multinationals are exporting your jobs at an unbelievable rate and the government's blaming the job shortage on the immigrants. Never mind, when your government finally bans anybody from entering the US, which is what it seems to be trying to do, then YOU can do all the shitty jobs that they currently do, because all the IT, service, farming, manufacturing, etc. jobs will be in countries where highly skilled workers will do you job for a fraction of the price. This is not a political issue, it is purely economic and will happen regardless of who you vote for.

The scales have shifted, my friends. Bush and his buddies are selling your country from under your feet while Rupert Murdoch tells you everything's OK and when you suddenly find that your job's been Offshored, Bush and Cheney will be sitting, out of reach, on an enormous stack of money, smoking cuban cigars and laughing at you. They are politicians, they are oilmen and they do NOT have anybody's best interests at heart, other than their own.

 

[Ali]

Ali this post of yours better be damn good for as long as it is taking you to make it!

Distracted by Farnborough 2004 on TV

I was there. Airbus A340-600 took off from half the runway and did some incredible maneuvers. It carries 372 passengers. The 747-400 had to fly from Heathrow because the Farnborough runway is too short, carries 403 passengers and looked very, very slow and heavy in the air, compared to the Airbus.

Eurofighter made F-18 look a bit like a 747, too!

 

[Ali]

Hey Read these fingers!

:ali:

 

[Annie]

Distracted by Farnborough 2004 on TV

I was there. Airbus A340-600 took off from half the runway and did some incredible maneuvers. It carries 372 passengers. The 747-400 had to fly from Heathrow because the Farnborough runway is too short, carries 403 passengers and looked very, very slow and heavy in the air, compared to the Airbus.

Eurofighter made F-18 look a bit like a 747, too!

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2003127.asp

France is considering joining with Britain to buy a new carrier of British design. Actually, the French had planned to built a second nuclear powered carrier, but they are having so many problems with the first one that they are quite reluctant about building a second like the troubled "Charles de Gaulle". Britain is building two 50,000 ton conventionally powered carriers, at a cost of $2.5 billion each. Under the proposed plan, France would order a third of this class, and bring down the cost of all three a bit. This project might not come off, because France wants a lot of the work to be done in French shipyards.

The new French nuclear carrier "Charles de Gaulle" has suffered from a seemingly endless string of problems since it was first conceived in 1986. The 40,000 ton ship has cost over four billion dollars so far and is slower than the steam powered carrier it replaced. Flaws in the "de Gaulle" have led it to using the propellers from it predecessor, the "Foch," because the ones built for "de Gaulle" never worked right and the propeller manufacturer went out of business in 1999. Worse, the nuclear reactor installation was done poorly, exposing the engine crew to five times the allowable annual dose of radiation. There were also problems with the design of the deck, making it impossible to operate the E-2 radar aircraft that are essential to defending the ship and controlling offensive operations. Many other key components of the ship did not work correctly, including several key electronic systems. The carrier has been under constant repair and modification. The "de Gaulle" took eleven years to build (1988-99) and was not ready for service until late 2000. It's been downhill ever since. The de Gaulle is undergoing still more repairs and modifications. The government is being sued for exposing crew members to dangerous levels of radiation.

The cause of the problems can be traced to the decision to install nuclear reactors designed for French submarines, instead of spending more money and designing reactors specifically for the carrier. Construction started and stopped several times because to cuts to the defense budget and when construction did resume, there was enormous pressure on the builders to get on with it quickly, and cheaply, before the project was killed. The result was a carrier with a lot of expensive problems.

So the plan is to buy into the new British carrier building program and keep the "de Gaulle" in port and out of trouble as much as possible. The British have a lot more experience building carriers, and if there are any problems with the British designed ship, the French can blame the British.

 

[Ali]

Ok, don't go getting your turbin all in a knot now!

WTF is a Turbin?

Was that a racist insult?

Maybe you should go here and make those sorts of comments. Lots of Bush supporters for you to chat to.

 

[Annie]

WTF is a Turbin?

Was that a racist insult?

Maybe you should go here and make those sorts of comments. Lots of Bush supporters for you to chat to.

You are for sure a troll! stormfront! LOL You do not know SE or the regs here. We give those short shift for different reasons that we do the same to you. Loser!

 

[Ali]

Hey, already a member with that site! But maybe I will saty here and make those comments seeing as it is my board, but thanks for the invitation!

Your board
Currently Active Users: 14 (11 members and 3 guests)
Most users ever online was 207, 02-02-2004 at 09:02 AM.

Stormfront White Nationalist Community
There are currently 492 users online (141 members and 351 guests).
Most users ever online was 818, 06-02-2004 at 08:27 PM.

seems like there are a LOT of white nationalists

Nice for Bush, innit?

 

[Ali]

hey

read my fingers

THE PAST IS OVER
Why are we expected to forget the past (like Ronny and Rummy), while you guys go on and on about things which don't matter any more.

De Gaulle trusted the US because they hadn't done all the shitty things you've done since WWII.

NOBODY in the world trusts or even likes the US any more. You've managed to piss of nearly every nation on this globe and are continuing to make more and more enemies everywhere, especially in countries, like the UK, which you think are your friends. You will see how much you are liked come the next UK elections. Blair is behind the Social Democrats! Even UKIP is beating Labour's ass in areas they used to dominate.
The war in Iraq is hugely unpopular in Britain, but I doubt you know that, seeing as you didn't even know about the effects of the 45 minutes scandal on Tony Blair's political career!

Why are you telling Taiwan to aim missiles (which you sold them) at the Three Gorges Dam! Why are you fucking with the Chinese? Why did you not apologise to them when one of your spy planes got knocked down? You said you were sorry that your plane went down, not that it was in Chinese airspace, in the first place. I don't think that this was quite the answer you Why does your current administration think it can ignore internationally-agreed treaties, like Kyoto, when the rest of the world agreed; tearing up arms limitation agreements and laughing at anyone who tried to tell you that wasn't cool?

Why do you not see that having a president whose Daddy has (had?) an oil services company, and a vice president who was CEO of a major oil-industry-related company and who is still a major shareholder; when the majority of Bush's campaign funds comes from oil-related donors. Why does this not make the rest of the world think that the fact that you invaded Iraq was because you wanted to control the oil supply?

I know that you think this all this power is great and that watching GI's kicking Iraqi ass on Fox makes you think that your country is the mightiest and the best and that you are invincible... but how long can you continue to fight? I understand you are still pissed about 9/11. I was too. It was the single most shocking thing I have ever witnessed and I could not believe it was actually happening. I wept for the people I saw jumping to their deaths and for everybody else who died that day. But lashing out blindly at Afghanistan, in pain and rage was a mistake. It was exactly what the perpetrators wanted you to do. Whoever planned and executed it knew what you would do next. The UN helped you to eject the Taliban from Afghanistan and we thought you'd be satisfied, but it was just the beginning. Afghanistan was barely under control when you started demanding we attack Iraq, a country that had no proven ties with Al Queda and no current WMD manufacturing program. Now you want to attack Iran and are already starting the old "they're building a bomb" chicken little stylee rhetoric.

Will you stop when you get OBL? Why haven't you managed to find him? You are somewhat better-equipped than he is. You have satellites which can read the lettering on the side of an AK-47 and yet he remains At Large. Why is that? Has it ever occured to you that he might be the Boogie Man, or whatever terrible monster it was that your parents might have made up to scare you into doing what they wanted? Without him you don't really have a reason to continue wreaking vengeance on the Arab World for 9/11. Maybe that's why he's managed to disappear.

You can't maintain this. Your deficit is reaching unbelievable levels. You buy far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more than you sell. You've deliberately devalued your currency and it's still huge. You are making yourselves more and more vulnerable to collapse and if you carry on fighting unsustainable wars in the Middle East, it will. And if the US economy collapses (again, remember the Great Depression) then we all feel the pinch.

Your Ivory Towers are rotting and crumbling at the base. Multinationals are exporting your jobs at an unbelievable rate and the government's blaming the job shortage on the immigrants. Never mind, when your government finally bans anybody from entering the US, which is what it seems to be trying to do, then YOU can do all the shitty jobs that they currently do, because all the IT, service, farming, manufacturing, etc. jobs will be in countries where highly skilled workers will do you job for a fraction of the price. This is not a political issue, it is purely economic and will happen regardless of who you vote for.

The scales have shifted, my friends. Bush and his buddies are selling your country from under your feet while Rupert Murdoch tells you everything's OK and when you suddenly find that your job's been Offshored, Bush and Cheney will be sitting, out of reach, on an enormous stack of money, smoking cuban cigars and laughing at you. They are politicians, they are oilmen and they do NOT have anybody's best interests at heart, other than their own.

I see you're trying to bury this post with petty accusations and haven't commented on anything I've said. Tried to change the subject, too.

Why do you keep changing the subject? This post is in the Europe section and it's about why you are so unpopular over here.

If I'm a troll, then ban me, rather than wasting space with petty posts? You people act more like trolls than I do. You deliberately try to get a rise out of me and have admitted to baiting me in your dorky 'ali hates GOP' thread. Your responses to my post were irrelevant and purile. Do you not want to discuss any of these things, or have you made up your minds already, in which case I'm wasting my time trying to engage in aome sort of discussion with you about what your country is doing.

Did you even read my post?

 

[Annie]

I see you're trying to bury this post with petty accusations and haven't commented on anything I've said. Tried to change the subject, too.

Why do you keep changing the subject? This post is in the Europe section and it's about why you are so unpopular over here.

If I'm a troll, then ban me, rather than wasting space with petty posts? You people act more like trolls than I do. You deliberately try to get a rise out of me and have admitted to baiting me in your dorky 'ali hates GOP' thread. Your responses to my post were irrelevant and purile. Do you not want to discuss any of these things, or have you made up your minds already, in which case I'm wasting my time trying to engage in aome sort of discussion with you about what your country is doing.

Did you even read my post?

Hello? You are calling yourself out! This is a sign of needed help!

 

[Ali]

Still haven't got anything to say, have you?

 

[Annie]

Still haven't got anything to say, have you?

To What??? You are talking to yourself. As far as I can tell, you are chastising yourself???

 

[padisha emperor]

kathianne : it's amazing, but when you posted arguments, it IS without doubt the truth, when Ali did, it IS without doubt stupidities.....

You can be wrong, dear, and Ali can be right. He certainly is.

For the french navy :

Yes, France and UK will realize an aircraft-carrier together.

Yes the Charles de Gaulle had problem. But now, it is good, it goes well....

THe UK built lots of Carriers, and the Royal Navy is best than the Marine Nationale - or before, the Marine Royale de Guerre - even if we won some fights. British navy was the best of the world until WWII.
they got lots of A-C, like : Ark Royal, Illustrious, Courageous.....

But I don't know if they had some A-C since the 60's. I don't believe.

Anyway, know that France is first of al a ground nation, a ground might, not a naval might, like UK.

And you said to Ali

Why do you keep changing the subject? This post is in the Europe section and it's about why you are so unpopular over here.

So, why did you speak of the Charles de Gaulle ? the R-91 A-C has no relation.....it is an aircraft carrier you know, not Charles de Gaulle the MAN...
So, you changed of subject - No relation between CDG and Eurofighter or F-18 too....
So....who changed of subject in this thread ?

PS : The Rafale -M made look F-18 like 747 too......

PPS : good post, Ali

 

[NATO AIR]

oh but i thought france was the greatest nation

 

[Annie]

Padisha, can't tell if you are being coy or dense. Ali's speaking/chastising himself, had nothing to do with me.

 

[padisha emperor]

No, I answer, but you heard on ly what you want to heard.

Oh, NATOAIR, try to write correctly the name of de Gaulle.....everybody makes faults, when he writes, mistakes with letters, but for the names of the personnalities, it is not the same thing.

I never wrote Buhs.

 

[dilloduck]

No, I answer, but you heard on ly what you want to heard.

Oh, NATOAIR, try to write correctly the name of de Gaulle.....everybody makes faults, when he writes, mistakes with letters, but for the names of the personnalities, it is not the same thing.

I never wrote Buhs.

HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE DISH------we have to try to interpret every damn post you put up here!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Get a fucking french board if you really wanna argue grammar and spelling!!!!! :finger:

 

[padisha emperor]

HOW STUPID YOU ARE !!!
do you really believe I spoke of grammar here ? i'm the one who speak the worse english here, because I'm french and not US, english...

I only spoke of the NAMES OF PERSONNALITIES !!!
Not de Gualle, but DE GAULLE !
I never wrote Buhs, but always BUSH.

NATOAIR did the mistake twice, and he wrote the name only twice : 100% error.
Above all in the thread's title.

I only meant that people - everybody, so me too - should care about the names of known-people.

Not telling you about grammar.......

 

[dilloduck]

HOW STUPID YOU ARE !!!
do you really believe I spoke of grammar here ? i'm the one who speak the worse english here, because I'm french and not US, english...

I only spoke of the NAMES OF PERSONNALITIES !!!
Not de Gualle, but DE GAULLE !
I never wrote Buhs, but always BUSH.

NATOAIR did the mistake twice, and he wrote the name only twice : 100% error.
Above all in the thread's title.

I only meant that people - everybody, so me too - should care about the names of known-people.

Not telling you about grammar.......

This may be a microcosm of the thread .---we're trying to have a serious discussion and you of all people bitch about spelling. This is not a spelling contest!

 

[padisha emperor]

serious thread ? make me laugh !
You spoke of De Gaulle, who died in 1970.
Kathianne spoke of the AIRCRAFT-CARRIER Charles de Gaulle. No link with the man.

You speak of a dead man, without relation with Iraq.
You - and this is YOU, diilo, not an other user - wrote once that people should speak of current events instead of always speakin of past.
i know you are not the author of this Thread, it is NATO AIR.

but can you tell me the interest ? Again what I said, when I show you your hypocrysi : you're able and garee for discussion about France's past, but not for US's past.