GOP turning "American helping American" into Socialism - Is that a national scandal?

[ClosedCaption]

When the Government FORCES an American to work and give up some of the revenue so the Government can help an American...that is not an American Helping American....that is Government taking and then giving.

When I donate money to the local senior center; donate my time to the local shelter; donate food to the local soup kitchen....that is an American Helping an American

When was the last time a person on welfare thanked the taxpayer?

Actually that is called the system of taxation. There is no viable alternative in a society.

So of course you'd be against the only option because that makes sense

There actually is an alternative, but you aren't really interested in it. You're happy to loot people of their property.

That was your chance and you blew it. Oh I get it you couldnt say what that alternative is because...my fault...Riiiiiight

Go ahead, What is that alternative? Will you answer or show me your dance moves?

 

[Iceweasel]

The analogy I fall back on is that of a bucket. We constantly pour water (tax revenues) into our bucket trying to get it up to the desired level but we've got gaping holes in our bucket (waste) and no matter how much water we pour in...it simply runs out that much quicker.

Now an intelligent person would step back and say "Whoa...before we pour any more water into that bucket...let's fix those holes!" The unintelligent person shouts that person down and says "We just need more water and we'll be fine!"

That bucket is becoming something the size of the Atlantic Ocean at this point.

 

[RDD_1210]

You aren't taking care of the elderly, disabled, and needy. You're taxing them into poverty.

LOL, the mental backflips you must have to do to justify contradicting yourself with every breath you take must be exhausting.

So you aren't taxing people into poverty?

And stating the truth is never exhausting. It's lying that gets exhausted. See. When you tell the truth, you don't have to remember your story. You just say things as they are. When you are lying you have to remember every detail you've said to keep your story straight. Which is why most liars get caught.

If you didn't take as much money from people, there would be far less poor, regardless of age. We would be in a far better position to take care of one another and support ourselves.

So this is where the major disconnect happens. I'd love for you to explain how you and your heros claim that "47% of the country are moochers" and how the "poor don't pay any taxes" and yet at the same time claim that "they are being taxed in to poverty".

Like I said, you're an Olympic quality back peddler and circus grade contortionist to be able to hold absolutely contradictory viewpoints that you so easily spew.

 

[RDD_1210]

that's the uppity of some people
many people have become successful without going to college...and many people stayed stupid with a college degree if you don't have "common sense" to go with it

And you have neither a degree or an ounce of intelligence.

But it's ok you're still poor and vote against your own interests, so at least you have that going for you.

How is allowing politicians and bureaucrats to rob our neighbors in our best interests?

Another one who thinks taxes are robbery.

Take it up with the founding fathers if you hate the Constitution so much.

 

[RDD_1210]

You aren't taking care of the elderly, disabled, and needy. You're taxing them into poverty.

LOL, the mental backflips you must have to do to justify contradicting yourself with every breath you take must be exhausting.

You're the one doing mental back flips. How else does one justify liberalism?

No YOU are.

Solid reply. No really.

 

[RDD_1210]

You think you're a great guy, right?

You see someone in need and you instantly think "I should help them," so you rob your neighbors to give the needy person the spoils.

Have you EVER spent even a dime out of your own pocket? Or is supporting high taxes to take from others your only form of charity?

Don't bother answering, we all know the answer.

It's interesting that you feel that taxes which are clearly constitutional is equal to robbery.

Which country do you pledge allegiance to, because it's clearly not this country.

Robbery is robbery, whether the Constitution allows it or not.

I certainly don't pledge allegiance to the current government of the United States. I can't imagine anyone being that servile.

At least you admit you're not an American.

 

[zeke]

plutocracy noun \plü-ˈtä-krə-sē\

: government by the richest people

: a country that is ruled by the richest people

That's the right wing goal. For some reason, Republicans trust corporations with a profit motive over the government we elect into office and at the same time screaming "we want freedom". Why? So they can give it away to corporations? At least with our government, you can vote people into and out of office. Once corporations are in charge, they will never let go. Only as long as we have a government we elect into office will we have even a sliver of freedom.

As you may have read, I am a big believer that we live in a plutocracy. Government of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.

But I never ever get a right wing wack job on here to contest that we live in a plutocracy.
Either they don't know what it is. Or they don't care. Or they agree and don't want to admit it. And I see no way to change it without a strong group of populists coming forward to bring about change. And that ain't happening. Liz Warren and Bernie can't do it by themselves.

But at least we live in a nice plutocracy. So far.

The term is absolutely meaningless. Any country that has rich people could be labeled a "plutocracy." Dims like you throw it around because you think it makes you sound sophisticated and smart, and because it's a cheap shot at the rich. Can you name a single country that isn't ruled by rich people? Can you post a definition of the term that distinguishes countries that are plutocracies from those that aren't?

Government of the rich, by the rich, for the rich. Does not need to recognize any form of government as long as the money is controlled by a small group of people.

Now every country in the world, no matter the form of government, has this situation to some extent or another. You think plutocrats wanting to rule the world only happened in long ago history?

It's just that in America, we tried to avoid that situation to some extent. We didn't really want a "ruling class" in this country. Worked for a while, but things are swinging the way of the plutocrats at the present.
You see the amount of wealth of the world controlled by just a few people? The amount of wealth in this country controlled by just a few people.

Funny thing about you is that while you recognize that plutocracies exist around the world, you seem to be in favor of them. At your expense. Why is that? You just like ultra rich people?

 

[Harry Dresden]

As you may have read, I am a big believer that we live in a plutocracy. Government of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.

But I never ever get a right wing wack job on here to contest that we live in a plutocracy.
Either they don't know what it is. Or they don't care. Or they agree and don't want to admit it. And I see no way to change it without a strong group of populists coming forward to bring about change. And that ain't happening. Liz Warren and Bernie can't do it by themselves.

But at least we live in a nice plutocracy. So far.

The term is absolutely meaningless. Any country that has rich people could be labeled a "plutocracy." Dims like you throw it around because you think it makes you sound sophisticated and smart, and because it's a cheap shot at the rich. Can you name a single country that isn't ruled by rich people? Can you post a definition of the term that distinguishes countries that are plutocracies from those that aren't?

Government of the rich, by the rich, for the rich. Does not need to recognize any form of government as long as the money is controlled by a small group of people.

Now every country in the world, no matter the form of government, has this situation to some extent or another. You think plutocrats wanting to rule the world only happened in long ago history?

It's just that in America, we tried to avoid that situation to some extent. We didn't really want a "ruling class" in this country. Worked for a while, but things are swinging the way of the plutocrats at the present.
You see the amount of wealth of the world controlled by just a few people? The amount of wealth in this country controlled by just a few people.

Funny thing about you is that while you recognize that plutocracies exist around the world, you seem to be in favor of them. At your expense. Why is that? You just like ultra rich people?

so what the **** you going to do about it Zeke?...both parties have nothing but the anointed run.....if a third party person comes along who is just a "normal" person....he gets the "dont vote for him....you are wasting your vote" treatment...he gets edged out because he aint got the money to hang with the big guys....even if that person is a better candidate.......if attitudes dont change....nothing will,its just going to get worse....

 

[The T]

States shouldn't "train" anyone. This is brought out by the liberal belief that college is the end all be all of everything. it's not.

It's embarrassing that someone in America would diss higher education.

People like that need to get out of the way of the 21st Century.

It's embarrassing that anyone would think paying for a piece of paper is "higher education". It's also embarrassing that anyone should think the only way to educate oneself is to go to a university.

The world, and life experience is a wonderful teacher...all you need do is pay attention.

 

[rdean]

I also would point out that Education isn't "job training". Education is learning about the world around us solely for the sake of learning about the world around us. Some of it is very useful in a career. Some of it just makes us a better person.

I didn't study European history for job training. I studied it because it's interesting (all history is really). Most people don't study music theory for job training, but because they want to learn about music. Most people don't study philosophy to get job training, they do so to understand ideas, thoughts, etc.

I don't think rdean has a clue what education really is. He thinks getting a degree shows that you are educated and smart. It doesn't. It doesn't hurt. But it doesn't guarantee anything.

ed·u·ca·tion [ej-oo-key-shuhn]
noun
1.
the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life.
2.
the act or process of imparting or acquiring particular knowledge or skills, as for a profession.
3.
a degree, level, or kind of schooling: a university education.
4.
the result produced by instruction, training, or study

Education | Define Education at Dictionary.com

Definition of "Job Training":

A method of preparing an employee to perform a task by providing them with information about the task, a demonstration of its performance, an opportunity for the employee to imitate the demonstration and subsequent feedback. Many business operators feel that effective job training makes an important contribution to their company's success.

What is job training? definition and meaning

-----------------------------------------------------

Wow, look at that. Turns out there are many forms of "education" including "job training". This is why Republicans can't compete against immigrants with degrees. They don't even know what education is and without that knowledge, "job training" won't "take". These days, not all jobs are "work hard and dig ditches". These days, for a good job, you need "skills". Skills you get from, well, some would call it "education", others would call it "job training". Turns out that job training is one of the many forms of education.

Consider this a "teaching moment".

 

[rdean]

The term is absolutely meaningless. Any country that has rich people could be labeled a "plutocracy." Dims like you throw it around because you think it makes you sound sophisticated and smart, and because it's a cheap shot at the rich. Can you name a single country that isn't ruled by rich people? Can you post a definition of the term that distinguishes countries that are plutocracies from those that aren't?

Government of the rich, by the rich, for the rich. Does not need to recognize any form of government as long as the money is controlled by a small group of people.

Now every country in the world, no matter the form of government, has this situation to some extent or another. You think plutocrats wanting to rule the world only happened in long ago history?

It's just that in America, we tried to avoid that situation to some extent. We didn't really want a "ruling class" in this country. Worked for a while, but things are swinging the way of the plutocrats at the present.
You see the amount of wealth of the world controlled by just a few people? The amount of wealth in this country controlled by just a few people.

Funny thing about you is that while you recognize that plutocracies exist around the world, you seem to be in favor of them. At your expense. Why is that? You just like ultra rich people?

so what the **** you going to do about it Zeke?...both parties have nothing but the anointed run.....if a third party person comes along who is just a "normal" person....he gets the "dont vote for him....you are wasting your vote" treatment...he gets edged out because he aint got the money to hang with the big guys....even if that person is a better candidate.......if attitudes dont change....nothing will,its just going to get worse....

Normal person? Like someone who was on food stamps as a kid? Who took out student loans to go to college and paid them all off after writing two best sellers? I wouldn't call that "normal". I would call someone like that a person who worked hard and succeeded. I would even vote for someone like that. Turns out I already did, twice.

 

[zeke]

The term is absolutely meaningless. Any country that has rich people could be labeled a "plutocracy." Dims like you throw it around because you think it makes you sound sophisticated and smart, and because it's a cheap shot at the rich. Can you name a single country that isn't ruled by rich people? Can you post a definition of the term that distinguishes countries that are plutocracies from those that aren't?

Government of the rich, by the rich, for the rich. Does not need to recognize any form of government as long as the money is controlled by a small group of people.

Now every country in the world, no matter the form of government, has this situation to some extent or another. You think plutocrats wanting to rule the world only happened in long ago history?

It's just that in America, we tried to avoid that situation to some extent. We didn't really want a "ruling class" in this country. Worked for a while, but things are swinging the way of the plutocrats at the present.
You see the amount of wealth of the world controlled by just a few people? The amount of wealth in this country controlled by just a few people.

Funny thing about you is that while you recognize that plutocracies exist around the world, you seem to be in favor of them. At your expense. Why is that? You just like ultra rich people?

so what the **** you going to do about it Zeke?...both parties have nothing but the anointed run.....if a third party person comes along who is just a "normal" person....he gets the "dont vote for him....you are wasting your vote" treatment...he gets edged out because he aint got the money to hang with the big guys....even if that person is a better candidate.......if attitudes dont change....nothing will,its just going to get worse....

Ahha, the 24 dollar question. What to do about living in a plutocracy?

First recognize that we do live in a plutocracy. That is a real good start. After that, when people start to realize that it is the plutocrats of any and all political party that are calling the shots and making the decisions with THEIR (plutocrats) best interests in mind that maybe we the people could insist that decisions be made that more favorably treated the middle class of this country.

My bet is that you and I and most of the people on this message board have MUCH more in common than you have with your typical billionaire plutocrat.

Yet people on here defend ultra rich people with an obsession. Why? What is it that you see the ultra rich doing for the benefit of people like you and I? That does not serve their interest FIRST.

You really think the Koch Brothers hate Obama? After their wealth has doubled under Obama. Really hate him? Not likely. But it sounds so good to some regular middle class people that the Koch Brothers are gonna restore "freedom" and "whatever else sells".

But as what to do about this situation. Maybe nothing to be done. Real rich people are used to making long term plans. And they have enough money to be eternally patient. Eventually if nothing is done, the ultra wealthy will control ever more of the countries wealth.

So let me ask you; if we do nothing about our plutocrats, is there a level of wealth that they could control that YOU think would be harmful to the rest of us. In other words, if 50% of the nations income goes to the ultra wealthy or 60 or whatever the number, when would the control of the nations wealth by just a few become a problem for the vast majority of us?

Or would it be a problem?

 

[rdean]

I also would point out that Education isn't "job training". Education is learning about the world around us solely for the sake of learning about the world around us. Some of it is very useful in a career. Some of it just makes us a better person.

I didn't study European history for job training. I studied it because it's interesting (all history is really). Most people don't study music theory for job training, but because they want to learn about music. Most people don't study philosophy to get job training, they do so to understand ideas, thoughts, etc.

I don't think rdean has a clue what education really is. He thinks getting a degree shows that you are educated and smart. It doesn't. It doesn't hurt. But it doesn't guarantee anything.

ed·u·ca·tion [ej-oo-key-shuhn]
noun
1.
the act or process of imparting or acquiring general knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life.
2.
the act or process of imparting or acquiring particular knowledge or skills, as for a profession.
3.
a degree, level, or kind of schooling: a university education.
4.
the result produced by instruction, training, or study

Education | Define Education at Dictionary.com

Definition of "Job Training":

A method of preparing an employee to perform a task by providing them with information about the task, a demonstration of its performance, an opportunity for the employee to imitate the demonstration and subsequent feedback. Many business operators feel that effective job training makes an important contribution to their company's success.

What is job training? definition and meaning

-----------------------------------------------------

Wow, look at that. Turns out there are many forms of "education" including "job training". This is why Republicans can't compete against immigrants with degrees. They don't even know what education is and without that knowledge, "job training" won't "take". These days, not all jobs are "work hard and dig ditches". These days, for a good job, you need "skills". Skills you get from, well, some would call it "education", others would call it "job training". Turns out that job training is one of the many forms of education.

Consider this a "teaching moment".

OMG, look at that. TRAINING PROGRAMS:

Training Programs Definition | Small Business Encyclopedia

Sounds an awful lot like "education". Especially the part about "classroom sessions". Oops.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Normal person? Like someone who was on food stamps as a kid? Who took out student loans to go to college and paid them all off after writing two best sellers? I wouldn't call that "normal". I would call someone like that a person who worked hard and succeeded. I would even vote for someone like that. Turns out I already did, twice.

Who the **** was that?

Certainly not Barack Obama, who went to the finest prep schools, had a silver spoon up his ass, and was ushered through life by a hoard of sycophants who declared him the great black (or should that be "red") hope?

 

[Stephanie]

Normal person? Like someone who was on food stamps as a kid? Who took out student loans to go to college and paid them all off after writing two best sellers? I wouldn't call that "normal". I would call someone like that a person who worked hard and succeeded. I would even vote for someone like that. Turns out I already did, twice.

Who the **** was that?

Certainly not Barack Obama, who went to the finest prep schools, had a silver spoon up his ass, and was ushered through life by a hoard of sycophants who declared him the great black (or should that be "red") hope?

wow, I wouldn't admit I was duped by someone I voted for

but there it is for all to see...he voted for a man who won, liar of the year, made up most of his life as being some poor black child who was actually raised by rich white grandparents.....and wrote two books even though he had never accomplished anything outstanding...gawd help us all these people vote

 

[Uncensored2008]

Normal person? Like someone who was on food stamps as a kid? Who took out student loans to go to college and paid them all off after writing two best sellers? I wouldn't call that "normal". I would call someone like that a person who worked hard and succeeded. I would even vote for someone like that. Turns out I already did, twice.

Who the **** was that?

Certainly not Barack Obama, who went to the finest prep schools, had a silver spoon up his ass, and was ushered through life by a hoard of sycophants who declared him the great black (or should that be "red") hope?

wow, I wouldn't admit I was duped by someone I voted for

but there it is for all to see...he voted for a man who won, liar of the year, made up most of his life as being some black child who was actually raised by rich white grandparents.....and wrote two books even though he had never accomplished anything outstanding...gawd help us all these people vote

Yes, but he also presented Obama as rising from poverty, which is an utter and complete lie. Lolo Soetero was a multimillionaire. Obama's grand parent is Hawaii were quite well to do. His mother was a whore, and went slumming. She may have drawn food stamps, but Barry never went without.

Obama lived a life of wealth and privilege and was groomed to be a ruler from the time he was young. Communist intellectuals were chosen to guide him on his path to the top. Dean is flat out lying about the student loans, Obama had a full ride scholarship to Harvard. There is no record of Obama paying a single dime on the Occidental education. It appears some mysterious benefactor took care of it.

 

[The T]

Who the **** was that?

Certainly not Barack Obama, who went to the finest prep schools, had a silver spoon up his ass, and was ushered through life by a hoard of sycophants who declared him the great black (or should that be "red") hope?

wow, I wouldn't admit I was duped by someone I voted for

but there it is for all to see...he voted for a man who won, liar of the year, made up most of his life as being some black child who was actually raised by rich white grandparents.....and wrote two books even though he had never accomplished anything outstanding...gawd help us all these people vote

Yes, but he also presented Obama as rising from poverty, which is an utter and complete lie. Lolo Soetero was a multimillionaire. Obama's grand parent is Hawaii were quite well to do. His mother was a whore, and went slumming. She may have drawn food stamps, but Barry never went without.

Obama lived a life of wealth and privilege and was groomed to be a ruler from the time he was young. Communist intellectuals were chosen to guide him on his path to the top. Dean is flat out lying about the student loans, Obama had a full ride scholarship to Harvard. There is no record of Obama paying a single dime on the Occidental education. It appears some mysterious benefactor took care of it.

Any wonder Obama refuses to release his records? It would expose him for the fraud he is.

 

[rdean]

Normal person? Like someone who was on food stamps as a kid? Who took out student loans to go to college and paid them all off after writing two best sellers? I wouldn't call that "normal". I would call someone like that a person who worked hard and succeeded. I would even vote for someone like that. Turns out I already did, twice.

Who the **** was that?

Certainly not Barack Obama, who went to the finest prep schools, had a silver spoon up his ass, and was ushered through life by a hoard of sycophants who declared him the great black (or should that be "red") hope?

wow, I wouldn't admit I was duped by someone I voted for

but there it is for all to see...he voted for a man who won, liar of the year, made up most of his life as being some black child who was actually raised by rich white grandparents.....and wrote two books even though he had never accomplished anything outstanding...gawd help us all these people vote

Never accomplished anything outstanding, except being a US Senator and US President twice, bringing us back from Iraq, taking out Bin Laden, bringing back the economy, putting healthcare for all Americans into motion, signing the Lily Ledbetter act, turned around the auto industry, repealed Don't ask Don't tell, abolished Bush torture policies, kicked banks out of the student loan program, increased support for veterans, tightened sanctions on Iran, passed credit card reform, expanded health care coverage for people who have kids in college.........I could think of another ten before I had to go look stuff up on the Internet. How many can you think of for Ronald Reagan and either Bush?

And he was on food stamps as a kid. The right likes to say his grandmother was a bank VP. Yea, she was so rich, she made at least $50,000 a year at a small local bank. Wow, that's a lot.

 

[whitehall]

Wow, talk about stretching the definition of "socialism" into a pretzel. The radical left must be plumb out of ideas.

 

[rdean]

wow, I wouldn't admit I was duped by someone I voted for

but there it is for all to see...he voted for a man who won, liar of the year, made up most of his life as being some black child who was actually raised by rich white grandparents.....and wrote two books even though he had never accomplished anything outstanding...gawd help us all these people vote

Yes, but he also presented Obama as rising from poverty, which is an utter and complete lie. Lolo Soetero was a multimillionaire. Obama's grand parent is Hawaii were quite well to do. His mother was a whore, and went slumming. She may have drawn food stamps, but Barry never went without.

Obama lived a life of wealth and privilege and was groomed to be a ruler from the time he was young. Communist intellectuals were chosen to guide him on his path to the top. Dean is flat out lying about the student loans, Obama had a full ride scholarship to Harvard. There is no record of Obama paying a single dime on the Occidental education. It appears some mysterious benefactor took care of it.

Any wonder Obama refuses to release his records? It would expose him for the fraud he is.

His state had to change their state law to release his original birth certificate. Remember, the short form was fine for any white guy running for public office. Just not for Obama. That's all you need to get. Why? Because right wingnuts still didn't believe it was real. So what could his high school or college transcripts prove? That he was really Hitler reincarnated?