Gop Offers These 11 Principles

[bripat9643]

When did Obama ever get a significant tax increase on the rich to fund stimulus programs?

He sure got a $1 trillion dollar stimulus. The result was the slowest recovery since the Great Depression. I fail to understand how piling a huge tax increase on top of that would improve the situation.

The stimulus was a one-time program funded by borrowing. While it wasn't anywhere near big enough to stop the recession, it prevented it from becoming another depression. Had it been a long-term relief program funded by higher taxes, the economy would be booming now.

holy smokes, tax tax tax tax tax tax THE PEOPLE and that is suppose to make the ECONOMY BOOM. are you people nuts, seriously

Think of it as pubic capitalism. The government raises capital and invests it in the economy.

Better?

Government "investment" is the opposite of capitalism. For one thing, "investment" is a euphemism for transferring money from the productive to useless parasites..

 

[rightwinger]

The stimulus was a one-time program funded by borrowing. While it wasn't anywhere near big enough to stop the recession, it prevented it from becoming another depression. Had it been a long-term relief program funded by higher taxes, the economy would be booming now.

holy smokes, tax tax tax tax tax tax THE PEOPLE and that is suppose to make the ECONOMY BOOM. are you people nuts, seriously

Think of it as pubic capitalism. The government raises capital and invests it in the economy.

Better?

You don't really get the idea of capitalism at all, do you?

Capitalism doesn't exist without a strong government

Wrong.

See how your capitalist economy does without a government backed monetary system

 

[bripat9643]

When did Obama ever get a significant tax increase on the rich to fund stimulus programs?

He sure got a $1 trillion dollar stimulus. The result was the slowest recovery since the Great Depression. I fail to understand how piling a huge tax increase on top of that would improve the situation.

The stimulus was a one-time program funded by borrowing. While it wasn't anywhere near big enough to stop the recession, it prevented it from becoming another depression. Had it been a long-term relief program funded by higher taxes, the economy would be booming now.

holy smokes, tax tax tax tax tax tax THE PEOPLE and that is suppose to make the ECONOMY BOOM. are you people nuts, seriously

When did Obama ever get a significant tax increase on the rich to fund stimulus programs?

He sure got a $1 trillion dollar stimulus. The result was the slowest recovery since the Great Depression. I fail to understand how piling a huge tax increase on top of that would improve the situation.

The stimulus was a one-time program funded by borrowing. While it wasn't anywhere near big enough to stop the recession, it prevented it from becoming another depression. Had it been a long-term relief program funded by higher taxes, the economy would be booming now.

Yeayh, yeah. Government shook its magic rattle and made the bad Ju Ju go away. My theory is as scientifically valid as yours.

 

[bripat9643]

holy smokes, tax tax tax tax tax tax THE PEOPLE and that is suppose to make the ECONOMY BOOM. are you people nuts, seriously

Think of it as pubic capitalism. The government raises capital and invests it in the economy.

Better?

You don't really get the idea of capitalism at all, do you?

Capitalism doesn't exist without a strong government

Wrong.

See how your capitalist economy does without a government backed monetary system

We had that until 1914, numskull. The economy did spectacularly. On the other hand, the value of the dollar has decrease by over 90% since the government took control of our money. We also had the worst depression in our entire history.

 

[Samson]

Yep. You seem to think you're making a point. This is simply an obvious fact, and has nothing to do with the gross error of thinking of government "investment" as anything but the opposite of capitalism.

In many ways it compliments capitalism

Government invests heavily in R&D in areas where capitalism avoids because they can't make a quick buck

Government grants in medical, communications, energy and dozens of other fields allow capitalists to come in without the risk but still reap the rewards

That's exactly what it does. But that doesn't "compliment" capitalism. It granting tax-payer funded favors to some capitalists, it compromises capitalism.

No it doesn't

Capitalists don't care about long term investments. They care about this quarters or this years profits. By allowing capitalists to control R&D investments we will end up with an economy tied to short term gains.
Government has the capability to invest in projects that yield long term benefits....that is how science works

I wasn't aware that the government invented the automobile?

Maybe the light bulb........um, no.

Telephone?

Personal Computer?

Why are there "Long Term Capital Gains (Losses)" on my tax form 1040 if "Capitalists don't care about long term investments?"

How would the automobile have done without government investment in transportation infrastructure? Automobiles would be expensive toys
Same goes for that new fangled electric light and government investment in power infrastructure. How many hydroelectric dams were built with private funds?
Telephone? How do you like those satellite links that allow you to talk anywhere in the world?
How would your personal computer be doing without the government invented internet? Who provided all those right of ways for telephone poles?

Are we talking about R&D or infrastructure?

Appears you've moved the goal posts to suite your argument: Capitalists used THEIR OWN RESOURCES for R&D.

 

[rightwinger]

Think of it as pubic capitalism. The government raises capital and invests it in the economy.

Better?

You don't really get the idea of capitalism at all, do you?

Capitalism doesn't exist without a strong government

Wrong.

See how your capitalist economy does without a government backed monetary system

We had that until 1914, numskull. The economy did spectacularly. On the other hand, the value of the dollar has decrease by over 90% since the government took control of our money. We also had the worst depression in our entire history.

Once again, you are wrong

The currency fluctuated widely with each economic boom or bust. Inflation was widespread as was the threat of worthless currency. Try again to convince people that a piece of paper with a number on it has any value

 

[rightwinger]

In many ways it compliments capitalism

Government invests heavily in R&D in areas where capitalism avoids because they can't make a quick buck

Government grants in medical, communications, energy and dozens of other fields allow capitalists to come in without the risk but still reap the rewards

That's exactly what it does. But that doesn't "compliment" capitalism. It granting tax-payer funded favors to some capitalists, it compromises capitalism.

No it doesn't

Capitalists don't care about long term investments. They care about this quarters or this years profits. By allowing capitalists to control R&D investments we will end up with an economy tied to short term gains.
Government has the capability to invest in projects that yield long term benefits....that is how science works

I wasn't aware that the government invented the automobile?

Maybe the light bulb........um, no.

Telephone?

Personal Computer?

Why are there "Long Term Capital Gains (Losses)" on my tax form 1040 if "Capitalists don't care about long term investments?"

How would the automobile have done without government investment in transportation infrastructure? Automobiles would be expensive toys
Same goes for that new fangled electric light and government investment in power infrastructure. How many hydroelectric dams were built with private funds?
Telephone? How do you like those satellite links that allow you to talk anywhere in the world?
How would your personal computer be doing without the government invented internet? Who provided all those right of ways for telephone poles?

Are we talking about R&D or infrastructure?

Appears you've moved the goal posts to suite your argument: Capitalists used THEIR OWN RESOURCES for R&D.

Both are funded by government

Want to go into all the technology innovations that came from government funded R&D?

 

[Samson]

That's exactly what it does. But that doesn't "compliment" capitalism. It granting tax-payer funded favors to some capitalists, it compromises capitalism.

No it doesn't

Capitalists don't care about long term investments. They care about this quarters or this years profits. By allowing capitalists to control R&D investments we will end up with an economy tied to short term gains.
Government has the capability to invest in projects that yield long term benefits....that is how science works

I wasn't aware that the government invented the automobile?

Maybe the light bulb........um, no.

Telephone?

Personal Computer?

Why are there "Long Term Capital Gains (Losses)" on my tax form 1040 if "Capitalists don't care about long term investments?"

How would the automobile have done without government investment in transportation infrastructure? Automobiles would be expensive toys
Same goes for that new fangled electric light and government investment in power infrastructure. How many hydroelectric dams were built with private funds?
Telephone? How do you like those satellite links that allow you to talk anywhere in the world?
How would your personal computer be doing without the government invented internet? Who provided all those right of ways for telephone poles?

Are we talking about R&D or infrastructure?

Appears you've moved the goal posts to suite your argument: Capitalists used THEIR OWN RESOURCES for R&D.

Both are funded by government

Want to go into all the technology innovations that came from government funded R&D?

"Both?"

Which one? Telephone R&D, Personal Computer R&D? Light Bulb R&D?

I'm not arguing that NOTHING has EVER been invented through an incredibly expensive, bureaucratic nightmare that comprises every activity the government undertakes, but to argue that capitalists have created nothing for long term results is preposterous.

 

[bripat9643]

Yep. You seem to think you're making a point. This is simply an obvious fact, and has nothing to do with the gross error of thinking of government "investment" as anything but the opposite of capitalism.

In many ways it compliments capitalism

Government invests heavily in R&D in areas where capitalism avoids because they can't make a quick buck

Government grants in medical, communications, energy and dozens of other fields allow capitalists to come in without the risk but still reap the rewards

That's exactly what it does. But that doesn't "compliment" capitalism. It granting tax-payer funded favors to some capitalists, it compromises capitalism.

No it doesn't

Capitalists don't care about long term investments. They care about this quarters or this years profits. By allowing capitalists to control R&D investments we will end up with an economy tied to short term gains.
Government has the capability to invest in projects that yield long term benefits....that is how science works

I wasn't aware that the government invented the automobile?

Maybe the light bulb........um, no.

Telephone?

Personal Computer?

Why are there "Long Term Capital Gains (Losses)" on my tax form 1040 if "Capitalists don't care about long term investments?"

How would the automobile have done without government investment in transportation infrastructure? Automobiles would be expensive toys

It would have done just as well. The only difference would be that private firms would have built the roads. They would have been built for a lot less money, however.

Same goes for that new fangled electric light and government investment in power infrastructure.

ROFL! What "government infrastructure" was required for electric lighting?

How many hydroelectric dams were built with private funds?

Well, probably none because private firms can't force people off their land by using the power of eminent domain. However. the electric power business was booming until the government collapsed the economy in 1929. There were no government built dams prior to Hoover damn and the TVA damns built in the 1930s.

Telephone? How do you like those satellite links that allow you to talk anywhere in the world?

Telephone calls all go over fiber optic cable. Satellite technology for telecommunications is obsolete.

How would your personal computer be doing without the government invented internet? Who provided all those right of ways for telephone poles?

Government invented perhaps 10% of the internet, and those parts would have been invented shortly by private firms anyway. They were just logical extensions of the private networking technology that already existed. Ever heard of token ring? That was a networking technology that existed prior to the Ethernet. There were a couple of others that competed with it.

 

[bripat9643]

You don't really get the idea of capitalism at all, do you?

Capitalism doesn't exist without a strong government

Wrong.

See how your capitalist economy does without a government backed monetary system

We had that until 1914, numskull. The economy did spectacularly. On the other hand, the value of the dollar has decrease by over 90% since the government took control of our money. We also had the worst depression in our entire history.

Once again, you are wrong

The currency fluctuated widely with each economic boom or bust. Inflation was widespread as was the threat of worthless currency. Try again to convince people that a piece of paper with a number on it has any value

That's complete horseshit. You don't know a thing about the history of money. The value of the dollar was greater in 1914 than it was in 1789. There was negative inflation over that time period. Inflation is a phenomenon peculiar to fiat currencies - government currencies, that is. Government caused almost every recession prior to 1914. It also caused every recession after 1914, but that's not germane to this discussion. Prior to 1914, paper notes had value because you could go to a bank and get 1/28 of an ounce of gold in exchange for a dollar banknote. They were far more trustworthy as a store of value than the funny money the government prints.

 

[g5000]

About time the GOP told America what it was offering.


"Pushing back against criticism that the GOP had become defined entirely by opposition to President Obama, Republican Party Chairman Reince Priebus released a list of 11 “Principles for American Renewal” that he said would guide the GOP agenda should it gain control of government."
GOP debuts new principles to demonstrate positive agenda MSNBC


Any disagreement on these ideas for governing?

Here are the Republican Party's Principles for American Renewal

• Constitution: Our Constitution should be preserved, valued and honored.
• 
  
• Economy: We need to start growing America’s economy instead of Washington’s economy so that working Americans see better wages and more opportunity.
• 
  
• Budget/Debt: We need to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution, make government more efficient, and leave the next generation with opportunity, not debt.

• Healthcare: We need to start over with real healthcare reform that puts patients and their doctors in charge, not unelected bureaucrats in Washington.
• 
  
• Veterans: Our veterans have earned our respect and gratitude, and no veteran should have to wait in line for months or years just to see a doctor.
• 
  
• Security: Keeping America safe and strong requires a strong military, growing the economy, energy independence, and secure borders.

• Education: Every child should have an equal opportunity to get a great education; no parent should be forced to send their child to a failing school.
• 
  
• Poverty: The best anti-poverty program is a strong family and a good job, so our focus should be on getting people out of poverty by lifting up all people and helping them find work.
• 
  
• Values: Our country should value the traditions of family, life, religious liberty, and hard work.

• Energy: We should make America energy independent by encouraging investment in domestic energy, lowering prices, and creating jobs at home.
• Immigration: We need an immigration system that secures our borders, upholds the law, and boosts our economy.
• GOP s Principles for American Renewal GOP

What's not to like?

A bunch of feel good bullshit. Yet not a word about how they would actually accomplish any of those things.

The GOP had all the reins of power and yet did NOTHING to reform health care.

"We need to start over..." BWA-HA-HA-HA!

That bit about "values" is particularly hilarious, considering all the disgusting moral failings they aid and abet among their ranks.

They had their chance, and blew it. Instead, they doubled the national debt, started three wars, had several overseas diplomatic missions attacked, lost guns in Mexico, created an unfunded trillion dollar medical entitlement program, created a massive Cabinet department to spy on tens of millions of Americans, jailed citizens without habaes corpus, treated the Constitution like so much shit paper, harassed reporters and spied on them, and laid the groundwork for the greatest financial crash since the Great Depression.

Exactly what is the difference between the GOP and the Democrats when they are in power?

So you go ahead and stroke yourself over this amusing pile of self-aggrandizing words. I will judge them by their actions.

 

[rightwinger]

No it doesn't

Capitalists don't care about long term investments. They care about this quarters or this years profits. By allowing capitalists to control R&D investments we will end up with an economy tied to short term gains.
Government has the capability to invest in projects that yield long term benefits....that is how science works

I wasn't aware that the government invented the automobile?

Maybe the light bulb........um, no.

Telephone?

Personal Computer?

Why are there "Long Term Capital Gains (Losses)" on my tax form 1040 if "Capitalists don't care about long term investments?"

How would the automobile have done without government investment in transportation infrastructure? Automobiles would be expensive toys
Same goes for that new fangled electric light and government investment in power infrastructure. How many hydroelectric dams were built with private funds?
Telephone? How do you like those satellite links that allow you to talk anywhere in the world?
How would your personal computer be doing without the government invented internet? Who provided all those right of ways for telephone poles?

Are we talking about R&D or infrastructure?

Appears you've moved the goal posts to suite your argument: Capitalists used THEIR OWN RESOURCES for R&D.

Both are funded by government

Want to go into all the technology innovations that came from government funded R&D?

"Both?"

Which one? Telephone R&D, Personal Computer R&D? Light Bulb R&D?

I'm not arguing that NOTHING has EVER been invented through an incredibly expensive, bureaucratic nightmare that comprises every activity the government undertakes, but to argue that capitalists have created nothing for long term results is preposterous.

Capitalists have benefitted greatly from government investment in R&D

Just look at the DoD, NASA, Health Department, Dept of Energy

You didn't build that

 

[rightwinger]

In many ways it compliments capitalism

Government invests heavily in R&D in areas where capitalism avoids because they can't make a quick buck

Government grants in medical, communications, energy and dozens of other fields allow capitalists to come in without the risk but still reap the rewards

That's exactly what it does. But that doesn't "compliment" capitalism. It granting tax-payer funded favors to some capitalists, it compromises capitalism.

No it doesn't

Capitalists don't care about long term investments. They care about this quarters or this years profits. By allowing capitalists to control R&D investments we will end up with an economy tied to short term gains.
Government has the capability to invest in projects that yield long term benefits....that is how science works

I wasn't aware that the government invented the automobile?

Maybe the light bulb........um, no.

Telephone?

Personal Computer?

Why are there "Long Term Capital Gains (Losses)" on my tax form 1040 if "Capitalists don't care about long term investments?"

How would the automobile have done without government investment in transportation infrastructure? Automobiles would be expensive toys

It would have done just as well. The only difference would be that private firms would have built the roads. They would have been built for a lot less money, however.



.

Very true

Imagine our transportation network if it had been build by the private sector. Every road and bridge would be owned by a private company. You want to use my road? pay first
Want to cross this bridge over that little creek? Pay me

Its what our roads and bridges were like before the government took over

 

[Samson]

I wasn't aware that the government invented the automobile?

Maybe the light bulb........um, no.

Telephone?

Personal Computer?

Why are there "Long Term Capital Gains (Losses)" on my tax form 1040 if "Capitalists don't care about long term investments?"

How would the automobile have done without government investment in transportation infrastructure? Automobiles would be expensive toys
Same goes for that new fangled electric light and government investment in power infrastructure. How many hydroelectric dams were built with private funds?
Telephone? How do you like those satellite links that allow you to talk anywhere in the world?
How would your personal computer be doing without the government invented internet? Who provided all those right of ways for telephone poles?

Are we talking about R&D or infrastructure?

Appears you've moved the goal posts to suite your argument: Capitalists used THEIR OWN RESOURCES for R&D.

Both are funded by government

Want to go into all the technology innovations that came from government funded R&D?

"Both?"

Which one? Telephone R&D, Personal Computer R&D? Light Bulb R&D?

I'm not arguing that NOTHING has EVER been invented through an incredibly expensive, bureaucratic nightmare that comprises every activity the government undertakes, but to argue that capitalists have created nothing for long term results is preposterous.

Capitalists have benefitted greatly from government investment in R&D

Just look at the DoD, NASA, Health Department, Dept of Energy

You didn't build that

Yes, I did not "Build NASA" etc. I'm not arguing that NOTHING has EVER been invented through an incredibly expensive, bureaucratic nightmare that comprises every activity the government undertakes, but to argue that capitalists have created nothing for long term results is preposterous

Capitalists do pay taxes though, in fact, US corporate taxes are some of the highest in the world, so I'd hope that the very least these bureaucratic monstrosities would do is to give back a fraction of the enormous expenditures required to maintain their existence.

 

[rightwinger]

Think of it as pubic capitalism. The government raises capital and invests it in the economy.

Better?

You don't really get the idea of capitalism at all, do you?

Capitalism doesn't exist without a strong government

Wrong.

See how your capitalist economy does without a government backed monetary system

We had that until 1914, numskull. The economy did spectacularly. On the other hand, the value of the dollar has decrease by over 90% since the government took control of our money. We also had the worst depression in our entire history.

Even a "numbskull" knows how to spell it

 

[Samson]

Its what our roads and bridges were like before the government took over

And a Great Job the Government has done!!

 

[Stephanie]

He sure got a $1 trillion dollar stimulus. The result was the slowest recovery since the Great Depression. I fail to understand how piling a huge tax increase on top of that would improve the situation.

The stimulus was a one-time program funded by borrowing. While it wasn't anywhere near big enough to stop the recession, it prevented it from becoming another depression. Had it been a long-term relief program funded by higher taxes, the economy would be booming now.

holy smokes, tax tax tax tax tax tax THE PEOPLE and that is suppose to make the ECONOMY BOOM. are you people nuts, seriously

Think of it as pubic capitalism. The government raises capital and invests it in the economy.

Better?

the "government" doesn't do jack shit but eat taxpayers money. WHICH it is suppose to use those monies to PROTECT we the people in the country and as we see, this administration doesn't believe that.
They don't have magic money trees growing themselves to SURVIVE. now you can go to a commie country if you like. nothing stopping you, bye

Who "doesn't have magic money trees?"

I'm certain you don't mean the US government. They have an orchard of Magic Money Trees.

well I know they believe they do. that's why we the people need to demand some of these federal agencies be cut off and out. It's grown into a money sucking MONSTER that's going to consume us taxpayers.

 

[rightwinger]

Its what our roads and bridges were like before the government took over

And a Great Job the Government has done!!

Good point......If Republicans would start funding infrastructure maintenance, we could start having safer roads

Thank a TeaTard

 

[Samson]

The stimulus was a one-time program funded by borrowing. While it wasn't anywhere near big enough to stop the recession, it prevented it from becoming another depression. Had it been a long-term relief program funded by higher taxes, the economy would be booming now.

holy smokes, tax tax tax tax tax tax THE PEOPLE and that is suppose to make the ECONOMY BOOM. are you people nuts, seriously

Think of it as pubic capitalism. The government raises capital and invests it in the economy.

Better?

the "government" doesn't do jack shit but eat taxpayers money. WHICH it is suppose to use those monies to PROTECT we the people in the country and as we see, this administration doesn't believe that.
They don't have magic money trees growing themselves to SURVIVE. now you can go to a commie country if you like. nothing stopping you, bye

Who "doesn't have magic money trees?"

I'm certain you don't mean the US government. They have an orchard of Magic Money Trees.

well I know they believe they do. that's why we the people need to demand some of these federal agencies be cut off and out. It's grown into a money sucking MONSTER that's going to consume us taxpayers.

Figuratively, the US Government has "Magic Money Trees." The US Mint actually produces Money. The Federal Reserve Loans this to Banks, which in turn Loan it to US.

The more money available for Loans, the more prosperous we're supposed to be.

In actuality the value of the money decreases.

 

[Silhouette]

OP post below...numbers are mine...

About time the GOP told America what it was offering.


"Pushing back against criticism that the GOP had become defined entirely by opposition to President Obama, Republican Party Chairman Reince Priebus released a list of 11 “Principles for American Renewal” that he said would guide the GOP agenda should it gain control of government."
GOP debuts new principles to demonstrate positive agenda MSNBC


Any disagreement on these ideas for governing?

Here are the Republican Party's Principles for American Renewal

• 1. Constitution: Our Constitution should be preserved, valued and honored.
• 
  
• 2. Economy: We need to start growing America’s economy instead of Washington’s economy so that working Americans see better wages and more opportunity.
• 
  
• 3. Budget/Debt: We need to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution, make government more efficient, and leave the next generation with opportunity, not debt.

4. Healthcare: We need to start over with real healthcare reform that puts patients and their doctors in charge, not unelected bureaucrats in Washington.

• 
  
• 5. Veterans: Our veterans have earned our respect and gratitude, and no veteran should have to wait in line for months or years just to see a doctor.
• 
  
• 6. Security: Keeping America safe and strong requires a strong military, growing the economy, energy independence, and secure borders.

• 7. Education: Every child should have an equal opportunity to get a great education; no parent should be forced to send their child to a failing school.
• 
  
• 8. Poverty: The best anti-poverty program is a strong family and a good job, so our focus should be on getting people out of poverty by lifting up all people and helping them find work.
• 
  
• 9. Values: Our country should value the traditions of family, life, religious liberty, and hard work.

• 10. Energy: We should make America energy independent by encouraging investment in domestic energy, lowering prices, and creating jobs at home.
• 11. Immigration: We need an immigration system that secures our borders, upholds the law, and boosts our economy.
• GOP s Principles for American Renewal GOP

What's not to like?

OK, you know I come from the middle, the place where you're looking for votes, remember?

I'll take your list blow by blow:

1. Duh. But it can be altered if everyone agrees. 2/3rds majority I believe?

2. In order to fund the military and service of roads and infrastructure, police, firefighting and universal healthcare [all lifesaving entitities] we need more tax revenue, yes. Which means universal healthcare can be the lure for businesses to spend less and hire more.

3. We have zillions of budget amendments and none of them ever work because lobbiests and politicians will never get out of bed together. Everyone knows that.

4. Universal healthcare is a necessity because all you're advocating is a return to the same old system we had before which was unreachable to 50 million people. With ebola on the loose now, you don't want 50 million of your "herd" with lowered immune systems and poor health from lack of regular accessible [affordable] healthcare. This solution augments # 2 because with that revenue in premiums freed up, that can often equal another mortgage payment monthly and for businesses, several employees they cannot hire, demand will increase and more jobs will be had.

5. See #4.

6. See #2 & #4

7. Yes, educators should be elevated to the status of doctors and certainly higher than politician. We should hold farmers in the same status. Try to make it without food for a week and get back to me on that one...

8. See #4

9. Agreed.

10. This should be done with alternatives in preference to traditional mined/pumped/fracked carbon: like solar thermal, geothermal and biodiesels.

11. We need a system of permissive immigration for agricultural services only. Ag employers should be exempt from prosecution. All other employers who hire illegals, including house service employees like maids, should face zero tolerance and stiff fines.

There.