Goodbye cruel world

[Sallow]

Really. Where is that money to pay our debt?

At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.

So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...

Pay off debt?

Naw.

TAX CUTS!

I have no idea how this answers my question.

Oh.

I will go slower.

WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.

WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.

Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.

But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.

 

[Si modo]

At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.

So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...

Pay off debt?

Naw.

TAX CUTS!

I have no idea how this answers my question.

Oh.

I will go slower.

WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.

WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.

Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.

But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.

Still non-responsive.

Recap: You said we have enough money to pay our debt. Where is that money?

 

[TruthSeeker56]

Plenty of finger-pointing, bullying, and hypocrisy on this topic, but NO solutions.

Plenty of sweeping generalizations, agenda-driven clap-trap, and platitudes, but NO solutions.

I could be talking about the political hacks in Washington, D.C. or the political hacks in this forum. Which is it? BOTH.

 

[DavidS]

They do that so they can pretend to the American people that they're 'fighting' to 'save' America. Both sides do it. Sheep fall for it.

Do you disagree with what I posted above?

I can't dumb down enough to read your posts.

Yeah I get it. You're a big of Reagan and you hate Obama, right?

Reagan good, Obama bad. If Reagan would've run for a 3rd term, would you have voted for him?

 

[Toro]

I think the risk of a sell off in the stock market is very high if the US defaults on its Treasury obligations. But the truth is, nobody knows. Anybody who thinks they know or who speaks with certainty is acting with hubris, even if the analysis is sound. Because the global financial system is so complex and tightly wound, stress on an unexpected weak link in the system could crack the markets. The problem is that the weak link is usually unknown. Nobody had any idea what the ramifications would be when Lehman declared bankruptcy, for example.

I also believe that the stock market will begin a slower decline if the debt ceiling is not increased even if there is no default on Treasuries. The deficit is 10% of GDP. The economy will begin contracting at that rate if the debt ceiling is not raised. If the impasse lasts for a short period of time, the affects will be small, but even a 2 week delay could shave ~0.5% off GDP.

The foundations of the stock market are beginning to weaken as the internals are deteriorating.

 

[dilloduck]

If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.

The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.

US debt default will do that? How?

Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more. In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt. The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit. This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.

There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.

What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.

This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.

How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?

Who will financially penalize the US for late or non payment of loans ?

 

[DavidS]

US debt default will do that? How?

Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more. In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt. The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit. This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.

There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.

What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.

This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.

How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?

Who will financially penalize the US for late or non payment of loans ?

Moody's and S&P will downgrade our credit rating - kind of like when you miss a car payment. And our interest rates will go up, making loans more expensive, like cars, homes, student, etc. The stock market will sell off to pre-1980 levels and our economy will enter a new recession almost immediately.

 

[dilloduck]

There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.

What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.

This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.

How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?

Who will financially penalize the US for late or non payment of loans ?

Moody's and S&P will downgrade our credit rating - kind of like when you miss a car payment. And our interest rates will go up, making loans more expensive, like cars, homes, student, etc. The stock market will sell off to pre-1980 levels and our economy will enter a new recession almost immediately.

That's a possible consequence of late or non payment, not a direct financial penalty. Are you saying our own bank will charge us more interest ?

 

[Truthmatters]

Still no evidence of both sides doing this like some posters claimed.


Its just not true.

 

[HUGGY]

If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.

The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.

As long as they make sure Obama does not get re-elected in destroying the country it will be worth any collateral damage.



Just sayin...

 

[Truthmatters]

who crashed the world economy?

 

[Sallow]

I have no idea how this answers my question.

Oh.

I will go slower.

WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.

WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.

Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.

But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.

Still non-responsive.

Recap: You said we have enough money to pay our debt. Where is that money?

What part didnt you get?

Do you understand how finance works?

 

[The Gadfly]

At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.

So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...

Pay off debt?

Naw.

TAX CUTS!

I have no idea how this answers my question.

Oh.

I will go slower.

WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.

WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.

Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.

But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.

Ah, there it is again, the liberal's solution to every problem - BIGGER GOVERNMENT, HIGHER TAXES. Poverty? No problem, Bigger Government, raise taxes! Recession? No problem-Bigger Government, raise taxes! War? No problem-Bigger government, raise taxes! The deficit? No problem, bigger government, raise taxes! Whatever the problem, TAX and SPEND, SPEND, SPEND! Hell if you democrats had your way, the government would own everything, your party would control everything, your party would decide how much we work, how much of what we produce you'd let us keep, when we sleep, how much we eat, and what we eat, because according to you the almighty federal government (so long as YOU control it, naturally) knows better that we do what's good for us. That Ivy League, arrogant, egomaniacal, statist prick you put in the White House is a perfect example of everything I detest about your party. You hate individual freedom, you want total government control of it all (again, all run by elitists like you, who are arrogant enough, and stupid enough, to believe you know it all). Government for the elite, by the elite, and the people be damned!

Well, this time, you are NOT going to get your way. This time, the rest of us have had enough, and I do not care, if we bring the whole house of cards down, or if that leads to revolution. Maybe we need a revolution, to clean out that cesspool on the Potomac. What you and your elitist, statist attitude have created is a sham, a lie, and a fraud! Just as Lincoln and the Radical Republican Jacobins of the nineteenth century destroyed the Republic, you have finally run the dissolute Empire that replaced it into the ground! The corporatist republican politicians who have helped you do it are little better; they want a corporate, militarized state, you want a socialist, command economy, nanny state, but BOTH want an all-powerful state, to divide among themselves. I hope it doesn't come to a choice, but I'd prefer absolute anarchy to either!

You want the truth? The truth is, that BOTH major political parties have flim-flammed the people, narcotized them with easy credit and phony prosperity, bought off the poor, instead of helping them, created a culture of dependency to buy votes, encouraged illegal immigration for votes and profit, and continued a giant Ponzi scheme called Social Security and Medicare (knowing it would become insolvent), and spent beyond the Nation's means, in a complete exercise in social and fiscal irresponsibility. Those aren't chickens coming home to roost, those are vultures, coming to feed on the rotten, decaying carcass. The party's over (BOTH of them!), and the American people are going to have to become self reliant again, instead of looking for a free lunch that is not free at all. The difference between me and you, is that I believe the people are capable of doing that, despite the pain of recovering from a well-conditioned addiction to the largesse of political thieves and hucksters.

 

[xsited1]

who crashed the world economy?

You did. Everybody knows it's true.

 

[Truthmatters]

The right wing priciples of lower and lower taxes has given us what exactly?

 

[dilloduck]

The right wing priciples of lower and lower taxes has given us what exactly?

Lower taxes

 

[Si modo]

Oh.

I will go slower.

WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.

WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.

Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.

But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.

Still non-responsive.

Recap: You said we have enough money to pay our debt. Where is that money?

What part didnt you get?

Do you understand how finance works?

Oh, I understand it well. Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.


"We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.

The world is well aware of this.

 

[boedicca]

The right wing priciples of lower and lower taxes has given us what exactly?

Higher economic growth and more jobs...as long as those tax rates remain certain and predictable and are not undermined by massive amounts of federal regulation and compliance burdens.

 

[Stashman]

If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.

The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.

The best thing for us right now is NOT to increase the debt ceiling. Why? Well you have to ask what that means to raise the debt ceiling. By raising the debt ceiling we give them permission to borrow more money. Where are they going to borrow this money from?
The Federal Reserve System. The Fed is not a government entity and is owned by private banks. They print the money from thin air, loan it to the government at interest, that is than passed on to the taxpayer.

Every time the Fed prints more money it devalues the money already is circulation. Our dollar today has a value of 4 cents as compared to the dollar in 1913 the year of the Federal Reserve Act.

If we do not raise the debt ceiling we will force them to do whats right and face the issue at hand and end the Fed.

Ron Paul 2012

 

[dilloduck]

Still non-responsive.

Recap: You said we have enough money to pay our debt. Where is that money?

What part didnt you get?

Do you understand how finance works?

Oh, I understand it well. Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.


"We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.

The world is well aware of this.

Our very own Fed will be happy to lend us more ( at an elevated interest rate ), God bless em.