Zone1 Good morning from Europe

Yes, WE know where it can lead, but OUR people didn't do that.
Did you ever watch Ken Burns' 2022 three part documentary The U.S. and the Holocaust?

Do you imagine the USA was completely free of anti-Semitism in the first decades of the twentieth century. Do you imagine it is completely free now?

Your hostility is noted.
 
Did you ever watch Ken Burns' 2022 three part documentary The U.S. and the Holocaust?

Do you imagine the USA was completely free of anti-Semitism in the first decades of the twentieth century. Do you imagine it is completely free now?


Your hostility is noted.

No groups of humans are ever completely free of racism, absolutely not. However, did we drive trucks of children into the fire ALIVE?

Did we do horrid, unhuman experiments on CHILDREN just to see what might happen?

Did we put people in "showers" and then gas them by the millions?

Oh, no, we didn't. We did NOT do that.

Industrialized genocide is all over there. Right?
 
No groups of humans are ever completely free of racism, absolutely not. However, did we drive trucks of children into the fire ALIVE?

Did we do horrid, unhuman experiments on CHILDREN just to see what might happen?

Did we put people in "showers" and then gas them by the millions?

Oh, no, we didn't. We did NOT do that.
It has been argued that Christian anti-Judaism found in some NT texts, along with later Christian anti-Semitism ended at the gates of death camps like Treblinka and Auschwitz.

I often wonder if that is why so many Christians since 1948 are so "Israel friendly". Is it guilt?
Industrialized genocide is all over there. Right?
Do you imagine that if some Christians in the 1200s or 1500s had had access to the technology available to the Nazis that they would not have used it? Martin Luther was very popular in Nazi Germany and given his later diatribe against the Jews one can see why.

He wrote what should be done to the Jews.
 
And what do you know about Islam? It is one of the Abrahamic faiths, just like Christianity.

Nor am I defending Islam it has some vile manifestations, as has Christianity and Judaism, but I do not care for those who express Islamophobia; that irrational thinking is too close to anti-Semitism and we all know where that can lead.
You are indulging in false equivalences. Islam is FAR different than Christianity. You might as well take a pit bull and a golden retriever and claim "Look -- they are the same!"

Do you REALLY think that Jesus ordered His followers to rape women in front of their husbands before killing the men? Mohammad sure did.
 
How many branches of Islam are known to you?

That is precisely what you did with Muslims.
Two major sects; Sunni and Shia which make up about 98-99% of Islam*, and a few other obscure and minor ones.
* Within those two major (think comparable to Christian Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant) are numerous sub-sect/factions.

Not me precisely though many of you mush brained Leftists tend to jump to that conclusion.
I've been here 5+ years longer and 14,000+ posts more than you and I doubt you've surveyed my record. I've constantly tried to make clear a distinction between Islamic Jihadists, versus everyday, 'run-of-the-mill' mild to "peaceful" Muslims.
If you were more familiar with my post history and content you'd have noticed I have limited endorsement of any religions past to present and my "atheist" identification has more to do with rejection of belief in any religions, yet acceptance of concept of a Creator Entity of all the Cosmos.

For more details, my thread;
The Geminga Scenario
 
They think they do and they can bring biblical verses to support their views.

And?

(sarcasm) Come on then "expert" enlighten us all.
Many so-called Christians bounce between Old Testament and New Testament, often not realizing that Jesus~New Testament abrogates much of the Old Testament.
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As for major issue with Islam;
(8)
Chapter: The command to fight the people until they say "La ilaha illallah Muhammad Rasul-Allah", and establish Salat, and pay the Zakat, and believe in everything that the prophet (saws) brought. Whoever does that, his life and his wealth are protected except by its right, and his secrets are entrusted to Allah, the most high. Fighting those who withhold Zakat or other than that is one of the duties of Islam and the Imam should be concerned with the Laws of Islam.
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It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said:
I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.
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I have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord) and in all that I have brought. And when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
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It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said:
I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).
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This is how/why a religion originally intended for the disjointed tribes of Arabs in the Arabian Pennesula expanded outward via conquests and conversions of the past 1400 years to encompass the huge portion of Earth that it does.

Also why Islam is at war with the non-Islamic world. And will be until;
1) We all are Muslims,
2) Islam ceases to exist
3) Islamic dogma & scripture is convincingly invalidated or greatly abrogated.
 
Two major sects; Sunni and Shia which make up about 98-99% of Islam*, and a few other obscure and minor ones.
* Within those two major (think comparable to Christian Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant) are numerous sub-sect/factions.
Yes because Christianity has always argued about its beliefs and what constitutes orthodoxy. The Python film The Life of Brian mocked leftwing and Christian groups.
I've been here 5+ years longer and 14,000+ posts more than you and I doubt you've surveyed my record.
You do not need to brag.
I've constantly tried to make clear a distinction between Islamic Jihadists, versus everyday, 'run-of-the-mill' mild to "peaceful" Muslims.
Which is true. Just as not all Christians are like Fuentes or Foxx.
 
You are indulging in false equivalences. Islam is FAR different than Christianity. You might as well take a pit bull and a golden retriever and claim "Look -- they are the same!"
They all come from the same original source. The wolf.
Do you REALLY think that Jesus ordered His followers to rape women in front of their husbands before killing the men? Mohammad sure did.
Feel free to quote the text and provide its context.
 
Yes because Christianity has always argued about its beliefs and what constitutes orthodoxy. The Python film The Life of Brian mocked leftwing and Christian groups.

You do not need to brag.

Which is true. Just as not all Christians are like Fuentes or Foxx.
Wasn't brag, just countering and substantiating your inaccurate judgement of me.

You are a "newbie" here after all.
 
Wasn't brag, just countering and substantiating your inaccurate judgement of me.
Then from what you have written about your differentiation between fanatics and non fanatics we are probably in some agreement.
 
They all come from the same original source. The wolf.

Feel free to quote the text and provide its context.
Actually I present the case for religions be a product of the Anunnaki, in my Geminga Scenario.

As for Islam and rape, here's a starter;
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Rape, or az-zina bil jabr (الزنا بالجبر), is a crime under Islamic law, and the perpetrator is subject to the hudud, that is, capital punishments such as lashing and execution. The Islamic understanding of rape, though, traditionally has some marked differences from the understanding of rape present in modern codes of law. "Maa malakat aymaanakum"ما ملكت أيمانكم" or "what your right hand possess", that is, slaves, did not have the right to refuse the sexual advances of their owners, and likewise for women taken and distributed as booty for victorious Muslim warriors (after a short waiting period to confirm they were not pregrant). Wives, similarly, are obliged to accept the sexual advances of their husbands except in certain circumstances such as menstruation or fasting (see Rape in Islamic Law). As such, the concept of rape was not recognised in Islamic law for slaves and wives. Rape of another man's slave was treated as property damage for which compensation to her owner was due, and the rapist would receive the hadd penalty for illegal intercourse. It is a historical fact that sex slavery/concubinage occurred on a massive scale from the beginnings of Islam almost until the present day. Mainly due to pressure from colonial powers, during the 19th and 20th centuries slavery was abolished across the Muslim world (though persists illegally in a few places such as Mauritania) and is considered no longer permissable in the modern context by most Islamic scholars. In many Muslim majority countries marital rape is also now illegal, though is not recognised as a crime in others (especially in the Arab world), which is true also of some non-Muslim countries.
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They all come from the same original source. The wolf.

Feel free to quote the text and provide its context.
You are simply too ignorant and too much an apologist to be worth the time. It is not my duty to educate you, especially since you simply do not want to know.
 
Actually I present the case for religions be a product of the Anunnaki, in my Geminga Scenario.

As for Islam and rape, here's a starter;
...
Rape, or az-zina bil jabr (الزنا بالجبر), is a crime under Islamic law, and the perpetrator is subject to the hudud, that is, capital punishments such as lashing and execution. The Islamic understanding of rape, though, traditionally has some marked differences from the understanding of rape present in modern codes of law. "Maa malakat aymaanakum"ما ملكت أيمانكم" or "what your right hand possess", that is, slaves, did not have the right to refuse the sexual advances of their owners, and likewise for women taken and distributed as booty for victorious Muslim warriors (after a short waiting period to confirm they were not pregrant). Wives, similarly, are obliged to accept the sexual advances of their husbands except in certain circumstances such as menstruation or fasting (see Rape in Islamic Law). As such, the concept of rape was not recognised in Islamic law for slaves and wives. Rape of another man's slave was treated as property damage for which compensation to her owner was due, and the rapist would receive the hadd penalty for illegal intercourse. It is a historical fact that sex slavery/concubinage occurred on a massive scale from the beginnings of Islam almost until the present day. Mainly due to pressure from colonial powers, during the 19th and 20th centuries slavery was abolished across the Muslim world (though persists illegally in a few places such as Mauritania) and is considered no longer permissable in the modern context by most Islamic scholars. In many Muslim majority countries marital rape is also now illegal, though is not recognised as a crime in others (especially in the Arab world), which is true also of some non-Muslim countries.
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The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)
 
Judaism began as the result of the beliefs of a people developed over hundreds and hundreds of years..

Christianity began as the result of Peter, Paul and others placing Jesus as the core example of their religion as it splintered off from Judaism.

Islam began when an illiterate warlord whose livelihood involved killing people and taking what was their sought a way to bind his warriors more closely to him by investing himself with the charade of divinity, so he had some scribes from the people he conquered cobble together self-serving pseudo-religion.

These children who ball up their little fists and scream "They're all the same" are laughably ignorant.
 
15th post
Judaism began as the result of the beliefs of a people developed over hundreds and hundreds of years..

Christianity began as the result of Peter, Paul and others placing Jesus as the core example of their religion as it splintered off from Judaism.

Islam began when an illiterate warlord whose livelihood involved killing people and taking what was their sought a way to bind his warriors more closely to him by investing himself with the charade of divinity, so he had some scribes from the people he conquered cobble together self-serving pseudo-religion.

These children who ball up their little fists and scream "They're all the same" are laughably ignorant.
The version I heard was, to paraphrase;

Muhammad married a widow older than him, a former business associate IIRC.
Yes a gigolo of sorts.
This was in the general region of Mecca, Saudi Arabia today.

Took to using his free time (had much of such) meditating in a nearby cave, hoping for spiritual enlightenment. Reportedly was hoping to "find a religion that would unite the feuding Arab tribes and give common identity, such as he noticed amoung the Byzantine Christians. This is about the 609-32 AD.

An "angel of the Lord" appeared to him and began to dictate what would become the Koran. Muhammad found a scribe to write it down.

Earliest version of the Quran preached peaceful, turn the other cheek sort of message, similar to that of Jesus.
As he and his followers became subject to growing public abuse and insults, the Lord's angel then gave "permission" to fight in self-defense.
Within a few years time, the message had morphed into the need to convert the whole world, all of humankind to the wisdom of Islam. This set off the next 1400 years of conquests and conversions, still ongoing and not completed yet.
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The Quran is the central religious text of Islam, which Muslims believe to be a revelation from God (Arabic: الله, Allah).The Quran is divided into chapters (surah), which are then divided into verses (ayah). Muslims believe the Quran was verbally revealed by Allah to Muhammad through the angel Jibril (Gabriel), gradually over a period of approximately 23 years, starting in late 609, when Muhammad was 39, and concluding in 632, the year of his death. Muslims regard the Quran as the most important miracle of Muhammad, a proof of his prophethood, and the culmination of a series of divine messages that started with the messages revealed to Adam and ended with Muhammad. It is widely regarded as the finest work in classical Arabic literature.
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There are two other text as part of the scriptures/dogma of Islam;
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Sunnah is the body of traditions and practices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad that constitute a model for Muslims to follow. For Muslims, the sunnah is what all the Muslims of Muhammad's time supposedly saw, followed, and passed on to the next generations. However, what constitutes the Sunnah, and its interpretation, depends significantly on the specific Islamic sect and school of thought. Sunnis rely on six major canonical hadith collections to document the Sunnah, known as Kutub al-Sittah. For Shias, the sunnah is generally documented in Kutub al-'Arba'a, which give preference to hadiths attributed to the Prophet's family (Ahl al-Bayt) and the Twelve Imams. For Ibadis, the sunnah is documented in the two hadith collections Jami Sahih and Tartib al-Musnad.Sufis hold that Muhammad transmitted his sunnah, including his spiritual values, "through a series of Sufi teachers"

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Hadith (Arabic: حديث) is the Arabic word for a 'report' or an 'account [of an event]' and refers to the Islamic oral tradition of anecdotes containing the purported words, actions, and the silent approvals of the Islamic prophet Muhammad or his immediate circle (companions in Sunni Islam, Ahl al-Bayt in Shia).

 
Actually I present the case for religions be a product of the Anunnaki, in my Geminga Scenario.

As for Islam and rape, here's a starter;
...
Rape, or az-zina bil jabr (الزنا بالجبر), is a crime under Islamic law, and the perpetrator is subject to the hudud, that is, capital punishments such as lashing and execution. The Islamic understanding of rape, though, traditionally has some marked differences from the understanding of rape present in modern codes of law. "Maa malakat aymaanakum"ما ملكت أيمانكم" or "what your right hand possess", that is, slaves, did not have the right to refuse the sexual advances of their owners, and likewise for women taken and distributed as booty for victorious Muslim warriors (after a short waiting period to confirm they were not pregrant). Wives, similarly, are obliged to accept the sexual advances of their husbands except in certain circumstances such as menstruation or fasting (see Rape in Islamic Law). As such, the concept of rape was not recognised in Islamic law for slaves and wives. Rape of another man's slave was treated as property damage for which compensation to her owner was due, and the rapist would receive the hadd penalty for illegal intercourse. It is a historical fact that sex slavery/concubinage occurred on a massive scale from the beginnings of Islam almost until the present day. Mainly due to pressure from colonial powers, during the 19th and 20th centuries slavery was abolished across the Muslim world (though persists illegally in a few places such as Mauritania) and is considered no longer permissable in the modern context by most Islamic scholars. In many Muslim majority countries marital rape is also now illegal, though is not recognised as a crime in others (especially in the Arab world), which is true also of some non-Muslim countries.
...
One can opine that marital rape took a while to be deemed illegal in western countries as well.
 
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